Re: The existence of God
 

I haven't a clue, maybe he has Asgard shields or something;) you say the universe is infinite, but of course it isn't, its just very big as claimed in the Hitch-hikers guide to the galaxy.
Also don't forget that at the point before creation there was no universe as we understand it, so if I were to guess I'd say its comparable with a scientist doing an experiment in a lab whereby observes from outside, he doesn't get in the test tube.;)

Re: The existence of God
 

and i think if my post hadn't hit a raw nerve you would have simply ignored it,now what does that say about the way you live your life ?..

Re: The existence of God
 

When I saw this post and the crutch, it made me laugh!

I get all sorts when I go knocking on doors, have not been offended once by non believers personal attacks on my belief in God. When respect is used to talk to others about God, people will listen, They may not believe or understand what you are on about, but some seeds may be planted!

Re: The existence of God
 

What if they stay in a flat and don't have a garden;)

Re: The existence of God
 

The scriptures say, that one walking in Gods ways will have his prayers listened to.

Often it is stated that folk turn to God during vunerable times in their lives, and believers then swoop on them and try to convert them.
I feel at these times people just actually start to question what is life all about, and may then start to think about is there a God or not, and may then check things out for them selves.

I still have an each to their own attitude about folks beliefs.
Only one of my own adult children belief in God, they hear about God in this house, and still have the right and free will to choose not to follow in my footsteps.

Its called each to their own and free will!

I respect that, I may not like it, but hey ho thats just the way it is.

---------- Post added at 08:55 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------


Arh well..............all these apartment blocks springing up over the place makes things very difficult to chat to folks on the doors!:)

Its very difficult to have a conversation over the intercom!

Does not stop us trying though;)

Re: The existence of God
 

had a couple of ladies knock on my door Sunday after noon [the kingdom hall is at the end of my street]
unfortunately i was in the grasp of a higher power [formula 1] and jenson and lewis needed me more than the church did, they gave me a pamphlet which i promised to read ,and after the race i read it then i screwed it into a ball and binned it my views unchanged ..

oh and i still wonder which part of doorstep callers are not welcome is difficult to understand .;)

Re: The existence of God
 

Hope you put it in the recylce bin papa!;)
We were watching the race as well!

Maybe you should say no doorstep callers including Jehovahs Witnesses knock at my door please?? Most are respectful, and will just go on their way if you express a wish not to chat at any given time.
My views didnt get changed either by reading a magazine, took a lot more than that!

Re: The existence of God
 

Imaginary. made up. not real.

The statement of I think man created God?
Which word are you emphasing too much on in that? and of which you feel needs an explanation?

---------- Post added at 09:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

I don't know. that's the message I seem to be getting from some. something about God is there he just needs you to ask. testing your faith.

Sounds like an expirement that went wrong :)

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 ----------

I'd listen if there was a size 10/12 blonde stunner standing there at my door too :)

Re: The existence of God
 

It may help some posters' propositions if they read the (populist) definition of the Big Bang, which explains that there actually was "something there" before the initial event -
" In the most common models, the universe was filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density, huge temperatures and pressures, and was very rapidly expanding and cooling. Approximately 10−37 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused a cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially."

btw, "Big Bang" was a radio-friendly term coined by (Sir) Fred Hoyle, not an actual description - this graphic timeline may help, as it shows it was approx 300 million years after the event that the first galaxies and stars form.

Re: The existence of God
 

That's poor. We're on a discussion forum, you should expect responses as the norm, unless someone has you on 'ignore' - and I don't have anyone on ignore. ;)

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------

It's not offensive at all. But are you asking about comparative religion or about different ideas within the same faith? If the latter, I think the differences you see on TV are probably not as vast as you think. TV needs to create opposition and tension, even in 'factual' programming, otherwise there's no drama and nobody's interested (allegedly).

God has first and foremost given us the Bible. The Christian's first responsibility is to live according to the teaching in the New Testamant, and in the Old Testament as illuminated by the New (which is why we don't stone adulterers etc). If you find a group of people picketing a gay funeral with placards you can show them from the Bible quite easily (if they will listen) why they may not be behaving appropriately.

On a smaller scale we Christians pray about all the day to day stuff and trust God for answers, but it's difficult to explain in a few words on a forum posts how that works and how he answers. He's real, very real, I can tell you that.

Beyond that, I guess you could ask how you know which is the right religion? That's a whole essay in its own right and not something I have time to do justice to at the moment!

Re: The existence of God
 

Just to add something bizarre that happened this week.I was covering an lesson about Easter and it's origins..and the issue came up that many of the class (11-12) (parrotting something from somewhere) told me Jesus was imaginary and not real...

So as an atheist I found myself telling them that although God maybe considered by some people not to be real that in fact Jesus was a real person with many historical references of people who were acknowledge as real, writing about him in historical documents that are recognised as being authentic by historians of this time..

So it it that some people have just decided that despite the 'historical' evidence that the whole issue of Christ and God is imaginary and not real?

As a teacher I am rather worried at this blurring of facts with fiction..:(

Re: The existence of God
 

It's not surprising, unfortunately. Jesus is inextricably tied up with a religion, and because most families don't do any religious observance at all any more, people tend to just categorise the religion as irrelevant and its components and characters as imaginary.

I don't think the school curriculum has placed much emphasis on the historicity of Jesus in the same way that it does for Mohammed or Siddhartha Gautama because previously Jesus actual historical existence was a 'given'.

Re: The existence of God
 

I believe that there may have been a man named Jesus. but I believe that he was just as normal as all the others around at that time. normal and not magic. and not the son of God.

Me saying the word God doesn't mean that I am now saying there is a God for someone to be a son to.

Re: The existence of God
 

But you know he was real whatever else you believe..the children I was talking to told me he was imaginary like the tooth fairy.


However they were prepared to believe in the Easter Bunny..:rofl:

Re: The existence of God
 

That's children for you :)
Did you ask if they thought God was real?

Re: The existence of God
 

He can hardly be described as being normal. Whether you believe he is the son of God or not, his short time on earth can hardly be described as normal. How many normal people in the last couple of thousand years have had screeds written about their life and had such a significant effect on people that he is still important to millions of so long after his death.

I've never heard of a major religion being built around all those other normal people around at that time.

Re: The existence of God
 

Do you think he was magic then?
He could have been normal at the time, and it was only a graduation of exaggerations built up over time that lead us to believe he was more than normal.

How do we know that Jesus wasn't just a made up character to reinforce the existence of God?
The significant effect is just time and the build up.

A child is born into the world everyday. and have been for the last 2 thousand years. each and everyone of them could if taught be part of the such significant effect on people that makes him still important to millions or so. long after his death.

Re: The existence of God
 

Being an athiest for some time I sidestepped the issue..they have a right to believe what they like about a deity.However when dealing with an actual historical figure I'm on steadier ground.

Re: The existence of God
 

did this Jesus character believe he was the son of God ? or is that just a myth passed through the ages .

Re: The existence of God
 

Because of several historical references about him by people of his time who had no truck with the Hebrew vision of one god and in fact were very much against him and what he was claiming.There are just too much reference about him for him to have been made up.

Unlike Robin Hood or Arthur who may well be several people rolled into one legend...

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Well he peed off his fellow Jews who incidentally in this day and age claim he existed even if he wasn't their Messiah...

Re: The existence of God
 

Screeds and documentation, like that of Flavius Josephus you mean?

Virtually all sources are the four gospels written several years after his life by people who had particular beliefs about its importance

Re: The existence of God
 

But other than we have to believe because it has to be true?

---------- Post added at 13:27 ---------- Previous post was at 13:23 ----------

But others who are not an atheist might have not. I think a lot of people who believe are only believers because they were taught to from an impressionable age.

Re: The existence of God
 

No one has said that - once again you seem to be twisting what posters state to back up your proposition.

Re: The existence of God
 

No one has said what? what has no one said that I am twisting in order to make people back up my proposition?
and why do you keep shouting it has to be about sides, when I speak for myself?

Re: The existence of God
 

black or white, with or against.... no grey areas, no sitting on the fence please... :dozey:

Re: The existence of God
 

But only one has been. :rolleyes:

Re: The existence of God
 

Or as he said, your either with us or against us :)

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

And I have given you my thoughts as to why that could be :rolleyes: :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Ok you win..I've no longer got any clue what you are trying to debate..and frankly this toothache is making me rather tetchy so I'll bow out before I say something I regret..

Re: The existence of God
 

Ok.

Do I get a choice of prize or isn't there one because it wasn't a competition? :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Bender, why can one not sit on a fence?

I did for many a year!!

---------- Post added at 15:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:56 ----------

Well, I bet all of these posts have confused the heck out of folk, coz they sure have me!

---------- Post added at 16:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

Some folk on here seem to think if you type something it is your own personal thought and opinion.

I think not personally!

Are they just not putting a thought in for us all to ponder on? Like I tried to do with the book by Stephen Hawkings.

It has got to be like personal attacks on various posters responses on here.

P.s Not sticking up for anyone on here in particular, just a general observation.


IN EDIT.......Anyone reading all this will now run a mile from what they class as religion, and faith in God.
What a shame!

Re: The existence of God
 

The prize is knowledge, grasp it with both hands. :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Maggy pointed out there were lots of historical documentation proving that the person Jesus actually existed - you responded by saying "But other than we have to believe because it has to be true?" No one said that we had to believe because it has to be true, people were saying (imho) we should believe Jesus existed because of historical documentation; which I why pointed out to you that you were (imho) twisting what posters had said by raising a "straw man" as if they had.

:cry::cry:- Get over it..........:D

There is a major difference, imho, between "sitting on the fence" and being deliberately provocative, obtuse, and twisting peoples statements to try and back up the poster's shifting positions.

Some posters seem to use "sitting on the fence" to post outlandish or ill-informed viewpoints, and then use the "sitting on the fence" defence to mitigate any negative response by stating "but I don't really believe one way or the other, I am just being even-handed and open-minded". ;)

Helluva get-out clause, again imho.

Re: The existence of God
 

No you are reading it the way you want it to read.

Maggy says there were lots of documentation proving

I said so apart from it has to be true because of this documentational proof, what else is there to prove it.

You don't want to see that. you want it to say something to suit your argument.

---------- Post added at 16:25 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------

You just come across as a bad loser. you constantly keep trying to influence others to your way of thinking of what isn't happening :)

Re: The existence of God
 

In what way is he a "bad loser"? The gentleman has made no claims for or against, though submitted links to documentation, yes.
I see no influence being used, however, I see a request for clarity not obtuseness, correct quotation rather than contextomy.

Re: The existence of God
 

Why the sudden use of the word Gentleman? it's not to make your post look more credible is it? :)

and are you going to go off topic for the umpteenth time again?

Re: The existence of God
 

The choice of wording is not used to gain credibility, if you wish to take it as such; thats your prerogative.

I've posted on topic in this thread and to which could be debated, questioned and contextomy used ;)
You just need to read up a little, go nuts!

Re: The existence of God
 

What on earth are you all typing about?
Is this an arguement going on?

One believes, one does not......................
One sits on a fence(watch out for splinters)

Believe in God, dont believe in God, freedom of thought and belief, do not PUSH your beliefs on anyone...

Re: The existence of God
 

I'd say his message was quite magical, turn the other cheek and love your neighbour, if people listened (myself included) there'd be no need for a spiritual heaven, it'd be here on Earth and it wouldn't shock me if that's what was intended all those hundreds of years ago.

Re: The existence of God
 

After I got the thread back on topic when you wanted to play a game of Hangman :( it was going ok until the usual 2 persons started distrupting it again as is happening now.

---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

That's a good point, and is similar to what I was saying earlier in the thread.

Re: The existence of God
 

Peace on earth will come one day, maybe not in our time, so I can not even say watch this space.

The Bible tells us that our world will never be destroyed and peace will be here one day and the original purpose of man on earth will come again, but the day is not stated.

Wish it had been!!

On that type, I wish you all a good evening, we are going out for the evening, have fun all ,in what ever you are doing tonight (but only if it is good and wholesome ;) :) )

Re: The existence of God
 

It doesn't, really, you just subscribe to a magazine that tells you it does. ;)

Re: The existence of God
 

Does it? :)

have fun.

Re: The existence of God
 

No, it really doesn't.

Re: The existence of God
 

well Lucy7 and Chris there seems to be differing opinions at your local branch level.;)
do we need acas ?

Re: The existence of God
 

Love the quote Chris :)

Originally Posted by Revelation 21:1

Re: The existence of God
 

Had to stop putting my make up for that one!!!

If you are calling The Bible a magazine, I think not old chap!

You have read it, come on now.

Re: The existence of God
 

Nope, it's just a taste of the sort of thing that happens when a JW and a Christian doorstep each other. ;)

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

I think you know I wasn't referring to the Bible, but if you want to go into details about the differing beliefs of orthodox Christianity and your friends in New York we had probably best do it by PM or in another thread. ;)

Re: The existence of God
 

We are Christians, I think Chris is born again(he may tell you different) I am a Witness.

---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------


Agreed, enough has been typed on here to scare anyone off as I have previously typed Chris.

There are 7 million Witnesses over the world now Chris, more being baptised daily, we all do not live in New York!;)

Re: The existence of God
 

Oh we won't be scared, educate us in a public forum please, we can learn nothing if you take this into personal messages.

Re: The existence of God
 

well, I think people should be able to, but personal experience tells me that I'm not allowed to (so some other people think). see here for full explanation.

Re: The existence of God
 

Oh how I miss Chaos23's dopey "everything is a conspiracy" threads, I don't suppose it occurred to him that the Beijing building could've been built sturdier.!!
Come back chaos23, there must be more conspiracies we sheepies are falling for.;)

Re: The existence of God
 

Cross posting, how very off topic...
Can you not move on and learn from your linked thread?

Re: The existence of God
 

Yes let's not lose the topic..can anyone remind me what it was? :)

Re: The existence of God
 

that was a very weak conspiracy theory!! lol. still, it got a lot of people in there talking, which is what it's about I suppose!

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

unfortunately not when the same trends appear to be happening over and over in different threads. all I learned from that linked thread is that some people are VERY closed up and are not willing to listen to other people when they give a view point, present alternative ideas or differ in opinion to the mainstream / consensus and are therefore ridiculed and / or 'told' they are wrong by others who almost gang-up in a very school-playground manner at times.

personal grudges come out and instant linching and mobbing too. it's a shame because I thihnk this thread has raised some very good points. certainly some very interesting ones. there are those who are very willing to explain their stance and their beliefs. however, there are others who immediately wade in posting yawning smilies and moaning about 'this same topic' that has apparently been covered a million times.

if people are bored by the topic here or don't like it, then don't post - it's quite simple. a lot of threads these days seem to get spoiled by such child-like behaviour, including the one I linked - just look at the first page or 2 of that thread and this one and you'll see what I mean.. it's like an adult conversation cannot be had at times.

GaryL is raising questions he feels he does not know the answer to. Chris has been excellent throughout this thread and really taken the time to post some rather good explanations. he has certainly made me look at things in a different light and actually give some time to thinking more about the existance of God and the foundations of religion as a whole. but then there are some others who moan about the topic, but insist on hanging about simply to post whinge after whinge and tear down people who are trying to find some answers...

That's what bugs me.

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

agreed

Re: The existence of God
 

Bender the only thing I asked people not to do in this thread was to attack and abuse others for their beliefs or non beliefs which unfortunately is the the normal state of affairs these days in religious threads on any site anywhere in the world.

Thus far it's not been too bad in that respect though it's come close at times.;)

Re: The existence of God
 

Sort of nougat with hazelnuts covered in chocolate. One of my favourites, still widely available.;)

Do I get a nomination for the most relevant post in thread going in circles? :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Bender, I think you "may" have found the wrong champion.

Gary L as far as I can tell is so far all smoke and mirrors. The core God thing being "make believe", I get that.... The other points only exist for a limited period (as yet undetermined). When questioned simply pretends not to understand and answers with questions?

Since I may be getting the landscape wrong, Gary please don't be shy and lay it on the line.... are you able to list your beliefs thus far?

I am not trying to attack you, I just can't see any bel.... or is that the point your lack of "firm" belief, simply means that all belief is in a state of constant flux???

Re: The existence of God
 

Hi, the bible's been rewritten so many times throughout the ages that the likelihood of any of it being real is ZERO.

If it is .. the Catholic Church needs to have a serious look at themselves as they are rife with paedophiles and have been known on MANY occasions to cover it up to avoid prosecution.

Re: The existence of God
 

You know you might just be onto something there, I wonder if anyone else has noticed ;)
And dare I say it, is a trend found in every topic/thread the afore mentioned gentleman posts in ;)

Re: The existence of God
 

Have a guess at how many times it's been "rewritten".

Re: The existence of God
 

I'd have a guess, but I don't think actual 're-writing' is all that relevant to the Bible - what's of a great deal more relevance is how many times it's been translated from the original languages/dialects it was written in, and by who ;)

Re: The existence of God
 

15

Re: The existence of God
 

I didn't say I was defending what he was saying, merely the fact he should be able to say what he is without the need for others to ridicule and rubbish what he says or asks.

my champion here so far is actually Chris. As stated in my post, I feel that he has, so far, posted the most consistently constructive replies.

Re: The existence of God
 

i would say its about how accurate the copies are and how close to the original they are .

Re: The existence of God
 

It's not about champions and it's not about sides.

Nobody believes you. they think you're making it all up :)

I don't think you're attacking me. you just can't read and take in what I have already written numerous times.

I don't believe in God.
I may believe that there was a man named Jesus. this man was not magic.
I don't believe that the Big Bang created either the Earth or the Universe. I also don't believe that God created either.

The rest are just questions to your answers.

---------- Post added at 10:13 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

Instead of sniping and reading this thread with your blindfold covering your eyes when it suits. why don't you answer the question you asked of me earlier in the thread. the one I asked you back which you didn't want to answer?

I answered you, but you just kept replying with more questions to form a basis for an argument :)

---------- Post added at 10:20 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

I think that could be true. if you read extracts from the Bible now. you can interpret it in so many different ways as to what it actually means.

It has to have been varied over the years. just by little things changing and having a different meaning if you like to what it originally was.

Re: The existence of God
 

That's such nonsense.

The original texts were in Hebrew and Ancient Greek. Painstaking efforts were made to translate them in to Latin and Greek.

Where the militant anti-religionists get the idea from that the bible has been 'rewritten' so many times from is beyond me.

So within this thread you seem to have gone from not having an opinion on the Big Bang to now having one. let's hope your mind continues to open...

Gary if you can show me where you get the notion from that the Bible has 'varied' over the years, and not from your own opinion then I'll be very, very impressed.

Re: The existence of God
 

Seeing as you are labellling some with such a word. is it only fair that they can come up with a label for you? :( :)

Me too Russ.

Notion is an opinion or a belief. other than my own I probably can't.

Re: The existence of God
 

It is, and they/you do ;)

I'm proud to be pro-Christianity.

Thought as much. There's plenty of references that state my view (ie the above translations were used), yet none that support your own.

I suppose you could always go for the angle that that although there's no evidence for your view, you still have faith in it? Think we've got the monopoly on that one though...

Re: The existence of God
 

That's your own label without the strong descriptive word at the front of it :)

There's plenty of references probably that state my view too. do you accept that what I said about you could interpret the meaning of an extract in many different ways?

someone posted an extract earlier in the thread which I didn't understand from reading it what it actually meant. I asked for the meaning, but nobody told me :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Well I don't consider myself militant because I'm not out to rubbish anyone's views.

OK well we're waiting....

If you take a single line from any book then yes, you could take it out of context and it's a well-used habit by anti-religionists. But if you were to read the entire passage/chapter/book then you get to see it in context, something that CF's usual suspects try to avoid.

Google is your friend...

Re: The existence of God
 

Re: The existence of God
 

Might be an idea to read links before you post them ;)

From that page...

Re: The existence of God
 

And I don't consider myself militant. it's just a label someone gave me :)

Accusations Russ :( someone genuinely doesn't understand what it means, and you say that it's either because you're anti religion, or you're not reading it fully.

Google translate? :)

Re: The existence of God
 

you seem to think i posted to rubbish you ,i posted for clarity.

"
If you open to almost any page in the Bible you will find a name of a place and/or a person. Much of this can be verified from archaeology. Though archaeology cannot prove that the Bible is the inspired word of God, "

Re: The existence of God
 

Well if the cap fits etc.

I wasn't calling you one of the Usual Suspects. You haven't reached the level of ignorance and offensiveness of those individuals (such as accusing me of child abuse and cruelty just because I bring my daughter up in Christianity, yep I've had that thrown at me on here in the past).

There's a difference between wanting to know what something means, and wanting to know in order to rubbish and belittle.

Not needed. I'm assuming you looked on www.allaboutgod.com which is what I've pointed you at in the past, what did you think of all the answers there? I mean you did read it, yes?

Re: The existence of God
 

I beg to differ, there are others that belive him.




Has it taken the whole of this thread for you to come to these thoughts?


Its my belief that man made God, God was the sun. 'God' has greater ties with astronomy than with a mystical being/deity.

Which makes me a atheist.

Re: The existence of God
 

The cap doesn't fit. I need the next size up :)

I have read that site over the last few days. I have many questions that are still not really answered even after reading a lot of it.

You're not listening to me are you Russ? :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Or could it be the questions are answered but the answers weren't the ones you wanted?

Re: The existence of God
 

Could be. I think it's more to do with who said those are the right answers, and not just his answers.

It's not just 3 questions and 3 answers to it all with me.

Does God exist answers many questions to do with God. such as where is he, who made the Earth, was Jesus really his son..
if he doesn't exist then that answers all those others to do with God. then there's answers needed for those that haven't been answered.
if he does exist then that can answer the same questions to do with God.

Re: The existence of God
 

So you're looking for the answers that are right "to you"?

Re: The existence of God
 

It bears no resemblance to the original Hebrew text so 'many times' is the only answer.

Re: The existence of God
 

Yes. are the answers you have right to you?

Re: The existence of God
 

It bears no resemblance because it's now a different language. It was translated in to Latin and English. The Dead Sea Scrolls proved the translation we have today is just about spot-on. Is that what you're calling 'many times'?

---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

In which case as an atheist you'll never find an answer that satisfyies you.

Yes, they make sense and get bourne out from other sources too.

Re: The existence of God
 

Can you take me off the door to door list then? :D

The September Clues make sense too. do you believe that? :)

Re: The existence of God
 

september ? give us mere mortals a clue -whats that about?

Re: The existence of God
 

You'll have to speak to them then, I don't know anyone who goes door knocking.

I've not seen it but I'd prefer it if you kept things on topic.

Re: The existence of God
 

The conspiracy about 9/11 and that it wasn't terrorists that blew the towers up, but missiles.

If you believe it or not. it's really interesting to watch :)

---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

Sorry Russ. I couldn't think of an example about what you said about making sense.

Re: The existence of God
 

Ever get the feeling liquid is being extracted from you, time and time, and time and time again?

Gary L, Russ has provide reading for you about God.
You may want to read this: http://www.atheistempire.com/

No one can give you the right answer, you have to come up with that on your own.

Re: The existence of God
 

I'm trying to ignore you.
You are still not reading the thread properly. get rid of the blindfold :)

Re: The existence of God
 

In which way am I not reading properly?

Re: The existence of God
 

People 'needed' an explanation as to their existence and surroundings, for hundreds of years the Bible gave the comfort and hope.

With our current knowledge of science, the whole idea of the existence of God, or all religions for that matter has been discredited as illogical and impossible. Some of the 'stories' in the bible are just laughable and completely defy the laws of physics.

I was brought up as a Methodist and I strongly agree with the 'Morals' that the bible teaches... I just couldn't believe in talking snakes.

Re: The existence of God
 

By who, the Christian scientists, doctors, scholars etc?

...which is what a miracle is supposed to do otherwise it's no longer a miracle....

Re: The existence of God
 

No .... 'proper' scientists. Not those Creationist loonies who go out hunting for a mile long wooden boats on tops of mountains.

Re: The existence of God
 

In which case I'm sure it'll surprise you to find out that there are many 'proper' scientists who are Christians, unless of course your definition of 'proper' is "atheist" in which case you should have said so.

Isaac Newton? Heard of him? Christian.

One of CF's members is a doctor and also a Christian.

Re: The existence of God
 

But I think this is what makes people find it not credible. calling something a miracle as a justification for something that would be seen today as laughable.

it's like a talking sheep :)

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

Russ the world is full of cranks. be they atheists or not. do you believe that some believers can be these kind of people?
this is not meant in anyway to be disrespectful to anyone, but do believers know that these people possibly don't even know the true cause of their belief?

Re: The existence of God
 

A talking sheep I think you'll find has exactly the same probability as the existence of god.

Re: The existence of God
 

So if I'm understanding this right, people such as yourself would be far more inclined to believe in a miracle if was explained away in human terms?

Indeed the world is full of cranks, each section of society has them. There's nothing to suggest religion has any more of them than other groups.

If you can find any facts to back that up with then I'll agree :tu:

Re: The existence of God
 

Re: The existence of God
 

There are no facts to back up the existence of God or a talking sheep for that matter, that's what the problem is!

Just because a billion people believe in something, doesn't make it a fact.

Has anyone seen Religulous yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkyLrDpaUg

Re: The existence of God
 

I don't think it would. I don't think it could be explained away in human terms anough to make it credible. that's what I'm saying.

I didn't suggest that it did. I asked about whether normal believers care whether these people possibly don't really know the true cause of their belief.