Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

"And no bank would offer a loan to someone they expected to go bankrupt. They just know that of x thousand people who walk through the door, Y of them'll go bankrupt, (and z of them'll go into enough debt for the bank to clean up on the interest charges, but not quite enough for them to stop paying ) so they pitch their rates accordingly so that on average the punters who pay up cover the losses on those that don't. They just don't know which ones that'll be."

Very good point as like many other things the customers who pay up are subsidising the loss making customers, various businesses work like this, but however for some reason a few on broadband have decided this is unfair practice.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Banks look at loan applications and turn down those that they think are pretty bad risks. They don't think "I know they are a bad risk but they will tell everyone how easy it is to get a loan from us" and give them one for all that word of mouth advertising. If banks suspect that a potential borrower may have problems repaying a loan they will usually only offer one against the security of the borrowers home or a guarantee from an acceptable person.

Whilst NTL don't know how new customers will use their connection, they do know how their current customers use theirs and what impact speed increases will have.

NTL may have had a meeting where it was asked if it was possible to implement the proposed speed increases that have been announced for the first quarter of this year. The answer could have been that the increased speeds were possible, but not if the heavy users continued trying to max out their connections 24/7. They may then have taken the decision to implement the new speeds knowing that this would benefit over 95% of their customers from which they would get plenty of good word of mouth advertising. Caps would be introduced that would affect the really heavy users but how it will affect them is unknown to us until details are released.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Just got off the phone to NTL about business services. £25/month + VAT, 24 month minimum contract, £90 installation (even though I have residential broadband anyway). One computer only (hide the BSD router).

As for caps, there is no limit during business hours (9-5), but outside of that time it's the usual 30GB limit. Speed increases will follow residential services a few months later.

Doing the math, assuming you downloaded at maximum speed from 9-5 and used your 30GB outside of that, in a 30 day month that would be around 107GB/month maximum. For £90 installation, 2 year lock-in and an extra £4/month.

Pfffff...

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I believe the point was made that the banks will pitch their rates so that the customers they profit from will cover the customers they lose from? I take that to mean that the interest rates go up if too many people default on their loans. Put simply, they put their prices up to cover the losses from some customers.

Applying this example to NTL, do you think broadband prices should go up to cover the losses they are making on the top 5% of their customers?

BTW, as I had it explained to me, NTL actually might a slight loss on ALL 1.5 Meg users, but that is more than covered by the profits from the 300K customers.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

It would be about 320GB a month, on 3mb. :-D I don't even think i could have used that much back when i used to download a lot. I think my highest was something like 130GB one month, and that was really hammering it for all it was worth. :-O

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

An invalid point though as Banks do risk assessments whereas NTL dont need to do risk assessments. NTL can work on hard facts - ie. your usage. Banks have to allow for some customers becoming 'leachers' ie. bankrupts because they can not fully predict the future. Therefore Banks dont have these loss making customers out of choice but because they are unable to predict the future.

Banks have the ability to refuse a loan to someone - if they can find facts to suggest that person will be a loss maker then they will - the bank's version of a 'leacher' would be a bankrupt or someone with county court judgements etc.

NTL also appear to be wanting to protect themselves from loss making customers.

The only risks in common with a Bank lending money is that NTL have the risk that your monthly direct debit will bounce. So from that point of view NTL do follow the Banking example and take on the risk that you will fail to keep up with payments.


NB. banks also have a kind of 'cap' in place - it's the limit of the amount they will lend if it's a loan, or your credit limit on a credit card or your overdraft limit on a bank account. :D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Even if you're only 1KM away from the exchange then I'm afraid you won't be getting the full 8Mbit. Also, I'm surprised that the exchange would have been taken-up by ukonline if there's only 3 of you that'll be subscribing. Just out of interest, which exchange are you on? Is it on their list of unbundled exchanges?

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

My eldest lad is moving out shortly, him and his m8 are sharing a flat. Neither is rich enough to buy one on their own.
His mate found they cant get NTL, [its a small block of flats] but he has had ukonline switched on today. Now hes about 2.5 miles [work it out in km] :) from the exchange, and hes getting about 7mbit.
Even tho thats under 8meg by quite a bit, as he said who gives a f**k if its not 8meg for 39 quid? [pfff damn kids]
The first thing i asked my lad to do was run a speedtest.
Cant be too careful being a parent, you have to bring them up right proper.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I'd prefer to have unlimited bandwidth overnight, so I can download without slowing down my daytime browsing. I can easily get 2GB overnight.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I am in Cambridge myself and i was told 2km or closer means you would likely to get full speed and even if i dont it will be alot better speed then ntl with a decent cap. i would never stick to 40GB a month thats just bad how ntl think thats enough for users. ive been on ntl through all my cable years never used any other broadband provider from 56k when i used ntls 0800 to cable now and to be honest ntl are good stable i never have problems its the 40GB cap that pushed me to want to leave that and ukonline's offer i cant ignore. could use more of an upload to :disturbd:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

ntl gave me credit check when I signed up, isnt this a risk assesment?
____________


Who told you 1km is wrong, 2km is the guideline but many will get it over that distance. ukonline is LLU and doesnt have to go by BT stupid guidelines.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

AFAIK, The credit check is only done if you decide to go for their phone service as well...

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Hi forum,

As it looks increasing likely that ntl will cap the new speeds, I am thinking of subscribing at 300k with 1GB/day cap. My question is, will I have a CHOICE/NO-CHOICE to upgrade to new speeds and if I do will I be subscribing to the new cap limits??

If choose not to upgrade to new speeds, will I still retain the 1GB/day??

I'm not too bothered about the high speed but more worried about the cap!!!

Your helpful comments and thoughts welcome.

Ash

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

if they are going to have "hard caps" then we should be allowed to transfer any unused downloaded gb's from previous months to the next months.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Cant see that, how on earth could they monitor statistics like that for over 1 million customers, never mind implement it?
It is a good idea, just a non starter unfortunately. :(

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

exactly the same way they plan to monitor it in the first place, i'd imagine. It can't be hard to introduce rollover.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Mobile phone networks manage to monitor GPRS/WAP/ Call usage and allow roll overs. Most of them have over 1m customers it must be possable.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Dont see why, Orange roll unused talk plan mins forward up to one month.
So if you have a 200 min plan and use 120 mins then next month you have 280 mins available. If you used none of these you would use the 80 and the 200 would roll giving 400 in month 3. Simple program should be able to cope with this.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

When I signed up was told tv and phone are compulsary if you want broadband, I have heard others have been allowed to not pay for a phone service but it doesnt seem the case in my area.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Relatively easily. The UBRs can log all data transfer, then simply send the data to NTL overnight. NTL already keep track of billing information for all those customers, so they can handle the amount of data required.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well, when I went to sign up for broadband, I was told I could have just the broadband, and nothing else if I wanted...

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Should be great till everyone started arguing about whether or not they actually d\loaded that much, and what they count as d\loads, i can just see it now. Tho i suppose as all the major d\loaders are going to leave, it will never arise as no "normal" customer should get near to their monthly "allowance".
If its that easy to monitor then they should be carrying it over, unless they are worried of course that binge downloading [as its now known] is going to upset the new system. :(

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I've just got BB - when I signed up they did ask if I wanted phone & telly but there was no hard sell & they didn't raise an eyebrow whem I said no

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I was wondering :dunce: do you think the TV channels will be next in line for capping?
With the new porn channel on the horizon some people are going to be hammering the bandwidth :erm:
And then there are those people who switch the TV on when they get up in a morning and leave it leeching away until they fall asleep next morning :sleeping:.
Or is the TV a light user :rolleyes: I've not heard much mention about how much some NTL cable TV users are abusing the system, just wondering.....
Or is it just that the BB users are a soft target :mad:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Point :D

but, the tv is fetched from ntl rather then the internet, where it is wherever it comes from.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Trying to decide if that's supposed to be funny.

As you probably know all TV channels are broadcast regardless on how many people are watching them, you don't need to add extra equipment and bandwidth because more people are watching TV at any one time, it's broadcasted.

Internet usage is usually unicast traffic (aimed at a single user) so in order for everyone's unicasts to get through capacity becomes an issue.

The only system where bandwidth may become an issue as far as TV goes is VoD as only a set amount of streams can be sent to customers off a particular hubiste. In return for using this bandiwdth let me think... Ah yes, for most content people have to PAY for what they use. I know this is an interesting concept paying for what they use considering how used we are to the unmetered system but it does work and assists in both ISPs traffic planning and quality of service, as well as making speed increases come more quickly, cheaply, and in larger increments.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Thanks Ignition, I wasn't thinking broadcasted in terms of cable... I understand now.
Much obliged, the capping seems more fair to me now, well, at least I don't feel that I have a target on my back as much.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

What I am trying to work out is a simple thing really - They say Leechers (using there line way too much) are costing NTL money - can I ask how this is the case, which part of the comms is the part which makes them spend money? Is this the link between NTL and the rest of the Net?

Is it also not possible when data never leaves the NTL Network to allow faster speeds, so uploads for example or is the limit not on the network itself but rather the Technology we have? Im sure there is times on the network when Lots of Bandwidth is doing nothing, such as middle of the night - would be good if possible to have more if the system allows.

It sort of reminds me of a Company I worked at, they had 1000mbit lines to the servers but limited cards to 10mbit as they thought it would cause a slow down if they let people have 100Mbit speeds - yes they had switches etc installed!!

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

hope they dont start capping my sleep next dam!!! i dont upload, i download about 10 gig a week some week 1 gig or 2 gig all depends on whats about most time i play on line games which will use a lot of my bandwith so hope i dont get capet for playing on line games damn!1

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well if you work out that 40 gig a month out of a possible 900 gig is around 22.5:1 contention slightly above the quoted amount of 20:1 by some people (i got no idea if 20:1 is the actual contention ntl aim for). Here is contention levels for the 3 tiers download only.

bottom tier 60:1
middle tier 20:1
top tier 23:1

including upload bandwidth since capping is up+down
bottom tier 66:1
middle tier 22:1
top tier 25:1

bottom tier looks a harsh deal when looking at how the contention is done, but it is very cheap, middle tier is best value for money.

Now if you want to work out if ntl are been generous then consider this, most of their customers are on the bottom tier, after the upgrade you will be contended at 66:1, which is the highest I have ever seen in the broadband market and very profitable, ntl are onto a real winner here and they have cleverly masked it using the new speeds.

Here is the old contention levels based on a 30 gig a month for all.

bottom tier 3:1
middle tier 7:1
top tier 15:1

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Would I be right to assume that it costs NTL more money to have for example:

A 300k connection using 30GB a month

instead of

A 3Mb connection using 5GB a month


-
Point im trying to make is does the level of service physically cost NTL more? or it is mostly bandiwdth which costs money? if so then surely the difference between the three tiers should be the amount of bandiwdth available since the speed doesnt cost NTL anything much more regardless.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Ouch.
Thats got to be hurting the customer. :(

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

:shrug: May be me, but that seems a very weird way of calculating contention ratios?

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well yes there is 2 different ways of defining contention ratio's I did it on the basis of how much bandwidth is available to use in a month 24/7. The method normally used is how many users it needs to max out the burst speed. So if there was 100 300kbit users on a 3mbit pipe that would be 10:1 contention.
__________________

They both cost money as you raise the burst speed you have to raise your own burst capacity to ensure the customer can use their's however if you are paying per mbit on your own pipe and capping your customers then the extra cost will be small, I think a 300k connection using 30 gig would cost ntl more then a 3mbit using 5 gig.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

It calculates something - but not a contention ratio as I understand it.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I would think that contention on cable is based on the capacity of the UBR card.

As for the caps, my guess is that they are there purely to get rid of the very heavy users.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Probably (to both).


Regarding contention, NTL possibly do measure it at the UBR card level.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Isn't it funny how whenever NTL talks about a cap. we get great long threads of people moaning about it (IIRC the one on .com was around 7000 posts when it was closed), threatening to leave etc.?

AFAIK, very few people actually left as a result of the current cap. It will be interesting to see how many people actually leave as a result of the proposed ones.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I'm sure if they actually imposed the current cap people would have left. And people are leaving due to this, I've just had the Sky bloke round saying he needs to come back with a pole (oo-er), and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

There was a major difference, the last one wasn't a cap, it was a guideline. I'm waiting to see what the cap is first, and how hard it is. Also, an option to buy more GB per month, might sway me, depending on the price. If it's a simple hard cap, i'm off to ADSL, i know a lot of people who feel the same.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I have a question bearing in mind i do not understand any of this :D looks like NTL are gonna enforce the caps to get rid of the heavy users, So if the heavy users go to lets say AOL with no caps on cable, isnt that still through the NTL ntework? which means NTL achieved absolutely nothing. And how come aol can offer unlimited via NTL but NTL cannot. As i said i dont really understand any of this, please bear that in mind when flaming this one

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think it's more about NTL choosing not to have an uncapped service than being unable to do so. AOL has just taken a different view. I would imagine that AOL-via NTL customers are small enough in number for it to make little difference anyway.

TBH I'm not sure why anyone would get AOL by cable when they can get it direct from NTL. Even with a cap, NTL's speeds are faster, and soon to be even more so, while AOL is apparently offering a measly 512k, presumably so as not to annoy their ADSL customers.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yeah, but the rumours last time were the same as the rumours this time. Nobody knew it wasn't going to be actively enforced. TBH, nobody (outside of NTL) seems to know what will happen if a user exceeds the current caps.

I have to admit, if the cap does cause me problems (or if UKOnline do decide to unbundle my local exchange) I'll probably be off like a shot to ADSL, but we do (at the moment) seem to be doing a lot of shouting about nothing.

Unfortunately, for me (and probably a lot of other people), ADSL is not worth it at the moment. Although I often defend NTL on here, I do keep an eye on what's available in my area. Currently the fastest ADSL service I can get is Bulldog's 2 meg service. For about £2 more than NTL's soon to be 3 meg service.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

You can't get anything but thier mid tier 512 or 600 k service on NTL so as a power user you have you bandwidth capped down from the potential 3Mb anyways.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Cheers that cleared that up for me but AOL just offered me 1mb on my cable with no caps, ah well i will do the same as most others wait and see what happens if the cap is enforced and adversely affects me then i will go to adsl bit of a choice now BT has it sorted in my area now. Thanks for answerinf my query and no flaming ;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

A lot of people are waiting to see though Scastle. If it becomes a hard cap, then i'm guessing a good few will move, most of the people i know that have said this are people who don't even use 30gb a month, they just don't like the idea of being capped, and having to keep an eye on it, with kids etc.

A lot of people have said how ntl won't mind losing their heavy users, i think they need to worry about the amount of users that will leave because they feel they can't sit watching everything their kids download etc, to ensure they don't go over the cap.

AOL might only do 512k, but you could still download more in a day, than you could with the ntl 3mb, considering the cap. Also, if i was going to AOL, i'd move my phone to BT, and get faster speeds, which i'm sure is what many others will do. My phone bills count to about £1200 a year. My average broadband use is about 45GB a month. BT and AOL will be glad of my custom. :-D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Speaking of AOL over NTL cable, do you need to install any AOL software or would it be just the same as with NTL (ie. just using a normal network connection)?

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

You need to install the AOL software, which does peculiar things to your PC and is the main reason I won't sign up with them even if they do have a big free trial period. It's just too much like hard work clearing the cr@p out at the end of it. Oh, and let's not forget their legendary billing department, which is liable to start charging your credit card even if you do cancel the service before the end of the trial.

Rearrange the following words into a well known saying:

bargepole touch them with I wouldn't.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I thought they might still insist you use that awful software :( If you need the software running, does that mean you can't use it with a router?

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I have a friend who spent a good deal of time and money setting up a wireless LAN in his house only to find it useless, courtesy of AOL broadband (although ADSL rather than cable based, AFAIK). I think he has managed to make it work by having one of his PCs act as the network hub but no, it seems you can't make it work with a stand-alone router. Not a wireless one in any case.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Screw AOL then :p

(unless AOL cable is any different)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

This may be of some use i have personally set up 2 comps to run on aol with out ther horrid software

http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/t12323.html?

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think a few are realising the amount you can download is more important then the burst speed, but I think Chris is right about AOL it can mess you up if you like to have a home network sharing the internet. Diemydarling I agree with as well, the reason people didnt carry out threats last time is because the cap turned out to be a guideline, although we don't know yet 100%, indications from people make me expect this to be a enforced cap. I was going to leave in may for certian but now ntl's business lite package has become a possible option for me. I am still to decide.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I originally posted this in another thread, i thought it was this one regarding the business lite package. i got this form NTL business team who were surprisingly fast, and polite and i received an instant call abck after i emailed them.

Single user options for 3 or under computers
>
> Rental 1.5M £34.99 per month
> Rental 750K £24.99 per month
>
> Install charge £90.00
>
> Fixed Ip addressing is a one off charge of £10.00 for up to 5.
>
> All options provide:
>
> * · Faster email & internet access (30 times faster with 1meg than a
> dial up connection)
> * · Fixed monthly cost no matter how long you stay on line
> * · Free registration of a .co.uk domain name of your choice (subject
> to availability)
> * · 60 Mgs of web space for you to host your own website
> * · 10 email addresses for you & your staff
> * · 24-hr technical support helpline
> * · Manage your account online
> * · Lower contention ratio than many other suppliers
>
> INSTALLATION OF UPTO 8 TELEPHONE LINES CAN BE INCLUDED AS PART OF PACKAGE
> OFFER.
>
> Line rental £13.00 per month per line.
>
> If you have any queries or wish to place an order please return an email

Re: NTL cap limit
 

Late reply but i only recently signed up, my friend uses that isp he should know. and its 10MB/10MB not 10Mb/8Mb you get a choice of 10Mb/1 or 10/10 and even though their 100Mb connection has a 180GB its still alot better then ntl's 40Gb monthly. who somehow think 40GB is enough for a whole months useage. i wonder how a country like sweden can offer all this yet England cant offer much. people in sweden are very lucky. i wish i lived there 10Mb/10MB for 20 Euro a month. i guess ukonlines 8MB will have to do . why cant uk pay for subsidised fibre england is more rich then sweden and yet they did it years ago. england should hurry up and catch up :angel:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

You can set up AOL without their software now. It was the thing that put me off moving, even when ntl were going through a rough time with email etc,but there's many web pages now showing you how to do it. Do a search on google.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

If I signed up with AOL cable would I get the exact same connection I have now? Or would there be some kind of routing through AOL's networks? I don't want to end up getting high pings or slow downloads...

Re: NTL cap limit
 

Umm nope if you re-read what I said the 10/8 comment was made in a different sentence, I then began to talk about bbb.se as the fastest ISP I could see in Sweden.

Think you missed the post I was replying to, supplies that all important context, and the punctuation I used in my reply.

Would you like to pay extra tax for this subsidised fibre? 95%+ of the UK wouldn't. Personally I don't appreciate the insane tax burden I have now without the Govt finding another excuse to tax the @rse off me (1p for bb, 10p for whatever else we have in mind) and considering their appauling wasting of money so far on anything bb related I wouldn't trust them anyway.

EDIT: AOL over ntl uses the ntl network purely as a conduit to AOL's network, so yes you use AOL's network extensively.

Re: NTL cap limit
 

actually Sweden is poorer than the UK...

link

which means by definition England is not richer than Sweden ;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

hell yes i would pay extra tax's its well worth it to get a decent net connection rather then crappy speeds, would be money well spent. 20 Euro for 10Mb/10MB cant be a bad thing unmeterd. sdsl is good shame the prices for 2Mb sdsl is over £300 a month :erm:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

There's an interesting article on wired about bittorrent, which then goes onto "peercasting" which is a way of broadcasting legit TV shows over the internet. It's things like this that really should have us worried about usage caps.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1...ittorrent.html

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

The last Cap when it first came in, I got rid of Tv Box thing + all channel and switched phone from NTL to BT. I kept Cable modem and the theory was if I get "told off" for using my connection to much, i would ditch that too. So basically it may not seem like many left which they probably never as nothing got enfoced but if they bring in a hard cap (which they will i think) then expect a lot more to leave...Basically people wont leave until something happens...which is a fair point

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I would also pay extra tax, it benfits those on low incomes who cant afford decent internet, and also benefits our whole infrastructure as a whole.
__________________

Good point, a friend told me a major isp in norway introduced a cap, but they lost so much of their userbase their creditors threatened to cancel their credit agreement due to their weakened position so they had to abandon the caps.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Something a lot of people don't seem to be considering is whether there's actually anything worth downloading from other ISPs if you use the newsgroups like I do.

A girl I work with went with BT Yahoo (can't get NTL where she lives) after I showed her how you downloaded stuff from newsgroups a lot more anonymously than you do elsewhere. Trouble was that after she signed a 12 month contract she found their servers contained zilch!

For all the moaning we do about NTL their newsgroup servers are good in comparison to other ISPs I know of.

The thing that bugs me is the £25 upgrade fee for current users. So they don't value us as much as new customers?!!:mad:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

It's to entice new customers rather than reward them because they value them more :geez:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

At least the newsgroups actually WORK on other ISP's though. I've had nothing but trouble with newsgropus on ntl, and so have a lot of other people. Also, you can access newsgroups from any ISP, if you sign up to a newsgroup provider, or get a password from somewhere. :-D

ntl don't value ANY customers. Not many big businesses do.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Since the new newsservers were brought online about a year ago I have hardly had a blip in the service and retention and completion has been FAR better and I'm a heavy downloader, so I don't know what problems you're talking about. Perhaps you can tell me what the problems were? As far as other ISPs are concerned a working newsserver with nothing on it is of no use to anybody.

Yes, I know you can access newsgroups with any ISP. I've been with Easynews for a couple of years (use them for fills, stuff I missed etc) and would recommend them unreservedly. Of course you have to pay for them unless you use somebody else's password like you.;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well, maybe people leaving is the best way to get NTL to listen. They sure as hell won't listen to threads like this..
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:erm: Eh?


How does that mean "by definition England is not richer than Sweden"?

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Have they ever listened about cap issues, remember Bill Goodland customers do not understand technical stuff :p:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

ok... getting quite :notopic: now...

facts:
1. Sweden is richer than the UK
2. England is part of the UK

therefore, England cannot be as rich as the UK (as it is part of it) and as Sweden is richer than the UK, it must also be richer than England

;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I recon us existing customers will be given a 'special' offer of a free upgrade which will be one of those offers that expires and then re-appears!

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Its expired. :D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

..Read your original post!

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I really can't believe you people are all still going round in circles discussing the same old points (of which there are currently very few anyway)

ntl really must be laughing their socks off....

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

The answer is simple - the mods have decided to give up closing 'cap' threads. It's easier to just merge them all into one (actually two, as the 'speed increase' thread is pretty much the same), then those of us who are bored stiff of the going round in circles don't post repetitive 'zzzzz' comments.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

What was the question??

Correct, we won't allow a 'new' thread to start as there is nothing new to say. :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Perhaps we could have 5 threads about the upgrade for the cheapskates on the bottom tier, 30 for us sensible moderate types in the middle, 40 for the posers with the fat pipes ... ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Or perhaps I could just close this thread until there actually is something to discuss-I.E. details of caps/limitations/port throttling etc etc etc......

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

You'd be accused for working for ntl if you made such a bad decision. :P

The thread is good, it gives people a chance to moan and whinge, and get things off their chest. While we wait for ntl to actually give us some information!

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Just phone up NTL, tell them you think it's rubbish and you want to leave, and they will give it to you for free. Any time you try to cancel anything, they give it to you for free.
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It's going to be nearly impossible for NTL users to download anything, since most BitTorrent sites now require at least a 0.75 ratio. That means, you have to upload at least 75% as much as you download. So, the 30GB cap is really only worth 17GB of downloading, or a bit less due to overhead.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

And you can absolutely, 100% guarantee that will happen can you?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

No they don't.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Where did chrysalis mention bittorrent? There's more to downloading stuff than torrents...

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Heh well I dont use bittorent or any other p2p software I happen to hate the protocol, but for people that do use it then this will be a killer for them I expect as they usually have to upload a proportion of what they download I think.

Neil I disagree with you that there is nothing new to discuss, many new points have been raised in this thread such as the option of switching to the business lite package, yes there has been some ranting but there has also been good discussion and I think progress has been made for some people. What is useless is people posting just to say zzZZ, if you not interested then ignore this subject.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

In reply to the pointless moaning about the cap, speeds and god knows what else...may I ask what the point of this forum actually is? Was it not started as a outlet for people to show there disagreement with the way NTL were going/have gone? All i see if the NTL Lovers standing by no matter what they put on there line...the old spin of "soon everybody will be capped no matter what" never sort of panned out did it? Yes ISP's have cap but ONLY on the lite packages...not quite the same thing.

The fact the first cap thread and now this one is always near the top, always MOAN about etc - does not that show you something? You cannot tell me a single home user likes the idea of a cap been imposed, most are in the dark, second it becomes reality (bloddy soon I hope to at least make some headroom on these arguments) then watch what happens...Only way a CAP to become the normal is if Every single ISP does the same thing. I personally would love to see NTL stick there necks on the line and bring in a hard cap across there entire range - how long we got now? Few months till something is in writing?

If this forum has nothing to do with NTL (as in owned by or indeed looked at even) then we can post till were blue in the face, little will be done or taken notice of.

This is my view on what will happen over the period as I see it...
NTL Introduce a hard cap with rules and reg on what/why/wherefor.
People wont come on here and moan about it - they will quite simple change (of they can mind you, cos not everyone can get ADSL etc) to another ISP, if they have a NTL phone line then they also will need a BT line, so a double whammy.

The people who have moved on (a lot of them maybe) will go out of there way to inform and advise people they know not to pick NTL and the reaosns why - a lot of people wont even get near the cap but the fact it will be there is clock watching, people def dont like that, the days of Dial up are gone I tell you.

These are my views - probably wrong - just how I feel over whats been said so far and for one - CAP=NTL Disconnected as far as Im concerned, already have a BT line after last capping crap...so im kinda ready and waiting as they say...

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

This thread is a constant source of amusement.

A few die hard protesters post the same old poo in diminishing ever decreasing relevance, and converse ever increasing desperation to make some contrived point.

Do you all conspire on MSN? 'hey I have a new take on the same old crap, hehe this will get them'?

Is it an independent coming together of like minded souls? A secret Geek Clan of 'Well they cut me off for not paying my Bill so lets unite'?

Do all 5 (ish) of you swap revolutionary anti ntl protest content on a secret forum somewhere?

Keep posting. Keep re-iterating your opinions. I for one will never be bored - I had no idea there were so many permutations of typos, mis-spellings, grammatical omissions or syntax failures to be had based on a 3 letter word.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Nikko I think its more the other way around, its a few die hard defenders, just because 95% of customers havent a clue what is going on and what a gigabit is doesn't mean they agree with whats going on, its like 80% of laws the government introduce the public havent a clue what they are until it affects them, does this mean the public approve of these laws? of course not.

I think you are struggling to accept the concept people are refusing to lie back accept the change and carry on paying ntl money, like it or not forums tend to be a place to post concerns not to pat someone on the back for a job well done, I dont see the point of slamming someone who posts these concerns.

"Do all 5 (ish) of you swap revolutionary anti ntl protest content on a secret forum somewhere?"

I think its nearer to 500 if you count all the deleted/locked threads.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Its amzing to me how many none NTL employees have such die hard "loyalty" to ntl , as though it were a football team. However Nikki I dont imagine for 1 minute you all spend your spare time outside the NTL offices chanting "here we go" and "go on, lets have a smaller cap" then go to the pub to discuss how stable the connection was this week. ;)
You pay ntl for a service, and your over the moon with it, and i'm happy for you, but for those that are'nt, this is the place to vent your feelings.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

He wasn't "slamming" actually, he has a very good point that I agree with. That's why I never post in these type of threads.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think that you are confusing loyalty with reality. Some of us realise that we are getting a better than average service at a reasonable price. We are getting what we pay for and getting more of it quite regularly. Some people ought to wake up to the fact that they are not paying enough for the service level that they think they should have.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

<Devil's Advocate>With respect Ian :angel: What you have not mentioned there, is the fact that most people are paying enough for the service level that they signed up for originally (prior to ntl moving the goalposts silently on a Friday night regarding the "cap") </Devil's Advocate>

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

You just did. :p:

[j\k]

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Most people Neil are you sure abt that?!?

I think you will find that more than half of ntl's BB users signed up after that Friday in question, so its not most is it :) Oh and from what i remember it was a Friday afternoon not nite :angel:;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I meant most of the people that are here complaining about the cap.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

:rolleyes: and you talk about ntl moving the goalposts ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Neil can't ingore the subject. He's a Mod. He's also part owner of the site. If anyone does or says anything wrong (or even libellous), he has to take action. Therefore, he needs to know what is going on.


Actually, I suspect it is nearer 5.. When the big thread (7000+ posts) closed on .com about the cap, I think there were less than ten people criticising the cap, but they actually accounted for the bulk of the posts. Going by the threads I have seen here, I suspect there are more than ten people posting about the cap, but not much more.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

No customer has ever signed up for the 3Mb and other new speed tiers that are to be introduced. Whether customers are paying enough is something we will never know. We know the price that the new tiers are coming in at but we don't know how profitable these are for NTL. Whilst it is easy to say that some ADSL ISPs provide faster, uncapped or cheaper services, we don't know whether these are profitable for them or whether they are just buying customers at this point in time. Many of the arguments that anti cap customers have are based on the assumption that if another ISP can do something then NTL should be able to do so too. Taking this to the extreme, if Wanadoo decided to buy customers by giving a 2Mb uncapped service for £1 per month, would you think that NTL would be wise to follow suit?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

You're maybe right, but haven't thought of the (probably) many who only READ the thread, and evaluate the information they see.
Why waste time/space posting a repeat of what someone else has asked/stated ?
I imagine there are a lot of lurkers, just watching to see which way things swing before making any decisions .... sitting on the fence so to speak ... and if every one of them posted their current thoughts maybe Chrysalis would be nearer the mark as regards the number of posters ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well, I'll admit I don't monitor these threads constantly, but I can honestly say that going by the line at the bottom that says the number of logged on users viewing the thread, I have never seen more than 6 for a cap thread.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well obviously I dont know what the actual amount is but it only takes me a few seconds to know 5 is way below the amount, I have seen at least a dozen threads closed made by different posters, the thread gets closed then they dont post again and thats the last we see of them. The people who have speaken up in this thread are generally again and again yes it is only a few of us but there is a lot more with concerns and yes there is the lurkers.

A good example is this new format bill from ntl, to be honest I think its crap all of a sudden 2 or 3 months ago ntl change the bill format, probably less then 1% of customers complained about it, does it mean the other 99% approve of it.