Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

The trouble is, all this takes time. You normally find that by the time the ASA has made a decision, the offending company reply with, "The ad campaign has run its course now, so we won't be using it again anyway".

I think most advertisers know this, so can put (almost) anything they like in their ads, knowing that the campaign will be finished by the time the ASA has dragged it's feet.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

I don't know if this has been mentioned before in the thread, but I was put on hold by ntl yesterday (as per usual) and had to endure the usual torture of the three/four variations of the tinny on-hold music rotated over and over again, plus the adverts in between.

Now I normally don't pay much attention to the adverts but I could not help but wonder at the legality of one of them. It said something like 'if you're after MP3's at more MPH then you should get broadband from ntl home'.

Are ntl trying to promote the downloading of illegal MP3 files using their broadband service?

Although having said that, I do download MP3's using P2P software, so I'm not really in a position to say that it's wrong, but at a time where the RIAA are taking people to court over the issue of sharing copyrighted music, I think ntl are being a little bit risky with it.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

I think you'll find that the other ISPs advertise along similar lines.
There are sites where you can legally download music,for a fee,so they're covered.
The argument in this particular advert centres on the implication that Spiderman was "legally" available for download.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Yes, but have you ever heard of these sites that offer 'legal' MP3 files for a fee that you would find on things like Kazaa?

I certainly haven't and the sites that do offer music that isn't in MP3 (usually WM with DRM to stop it from being copied).

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

This is why I like the p2p culture.Being able to obtain long deleted albums,concert performances,(foreign) radio sessions.The stuff that you cannot buy in the shops or online (legally).

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Yeah, but NTL don't encourage people to use File Sharing as such, they just point out you can download movies and music from the web (OK, they give the example of downloading Spider Man which isn't legally available), but there are sites you can legally download music and movies, so NTL are probably covered.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

There have been more developments in the .com version of this thread:
http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/sho...2&page=9&pp=30

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Although I've heard of sites where you can legally download music, I never heard of sites where you can legally download movies :confused:

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

http://www.thisisnotalovesong.com

and in the USA there is a site which allows you to download movies (at a cost) - I tried to use it but it rejected me cos my ip address wasnt within USA!

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Must be because they can't sue you if you share the movies.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

OK people, we have a final resolution from the ASA over this issue. I have received the following email from them:

Your views?

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Pathetic, considering the number of other complaints to the ASA regarding Ntls dubious marketing practises!

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

To be honest we gave NTL the 'get out' statements on .com and .co.uk. At least the future ads will be correct, that's if they use it again :)

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

At least they have reconised the problem, I was never sure what punished should be issued.
Are these 'revised' facts correct? Have there been that many legal downloads and was the spiderman trailer availiable on the internet before the cinema.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

At the end of the day it seems like everyone made too much fuss of too little a thing.
The ASA has now made its descision, whether or not NTL were telling the truth is nothing to do with us at all.
I only hope that the people with too much time on their hands to go causing trouble when its clearly not as serious as they think it is learn from this matter.

Keep your nose out of other peoples business is a lesson I was taught when very young, I think that this lesson should be taught to some people on here.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Wise words. But some members seem to have some kind of witch hunt going, and will not be at all happy at the ASAs actions. :p

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Good grief, you ought to apply for a job with Tony Blair for spinning skills like that!

Fact: NTL made a claim in an advert which they ought not to have made (Spiderman was available online before it was in the cinema). They say this was a mistake and should have read 'Spiderman trailers'.
Fact: The same advert was repeated more than once. If this 'mistake' had therefore not been pointed out, they would have continued to make it.
Fact: NTL published statistics about movie downloads, and now accepts that the figure is misleading, having undertaken to verify the number of only legal downloads in future adverts.
Fact: The ASA, prior to agreeing to an informal settlement with NTL, accepted that there was a case to answer. Namely, that the advert as it stood could be seen to advocate illegal downloading of copyright material from the internet.
Fact: The ASA thanked me for drawing the matter to their attention. The ASA is an official body, with an official process which requires pubilc help in order to function.

Adverts are my business, they are your business, and they are the business of every mature adult citizen of the UK. We do not live in isolation. The way this country works and the good conduct of its people is a shared responsibility. There is no 'us and them'.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

FACT: the ASA did very little.
Resulting FACT: The advert obviously wasnt that much of a problem
Resulting FACT 2: The ASA INFORMALLY closed the case.


Conclusion: Over reaction on someones part.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Speaking for myself, I am happy. The advert will not be repeated, those at NTL wot did it will (hopefully) think more carefully about it in future, and the doomsayers who predicted a thumping great fine that would put all our subscriptions up have been proven wrong.

I never thought there were any witches at ntl. A couple of goblins perhaps, and maybe even a troll or two, but hey .... ;) I'm sure you're a beautiful and righteous elven lady, OB. :) :p

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Not at all, they have recognised the problem and judged appropriately. This is not a witch hunt, we, the public, saw an issue with said advertisement and reported it to the appropriate authority. This is how the system works.

I personally think the advertisement has potential to do damage, maybe it would have if it was on a more large scale medium or maybe it already has. My advice to NTL is don't begin prosecuting file shares until this incident is long forgotten - it may come back to bite you.

I never wanted NTL to be hurt from the issue, just to recognise their mistake.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

:spin:

1. I am happy with as much as they did.
2. It was enough of a problem for them not to dismiss it out of hand, which they could have done.
3. No, they informally resolved the case, after receiving certain commitments from ntl.

Conclusion: Ntl were wrong; I reported their wrongdoing; the authorities agreed and requested an undertaking from ntl not to repeat the wrongdoing; ntl made a commitment; everyone acted in a legal, polite and honest manner; case closed.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

It needs to be looked at in context.
You say "we" well you certainly did not represent myself, nor I suspect OB.
The advert was able to be interpretted in two ways, one way was that there was nothing wrong with it, the other way was that there was something wrong with it.
This point was never really argued, I never said the advert was ok, I just didnt think it warranted so many people jumping on a bandwagon and reports top the ASA.
What I argued against was people reporting this, what has it gained? what did you achieve.......oh sorry yeah a thanks from the ASA, which is about as worthwhile as a big tick a gold star and a Well Done form your primary school teacher.
I stated that the ASA would do nothing, I was wrong, they actually did "Next to Nothing" See I can admit that I wasnt 100% correct all the time. :D
Had the advert been as serious as some of the users on here seemed to think it was the ASA would have indeed fined NTL. They didnt, draw your own conculsions from that.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Towny, I agree wholeheartedly with the comments above, np there at all. However, there were several members who were particualrly verbal in their dislike and wished many bad things to happen, I am not counting you among them, but it was these members that blew this Ad out of proportion.

The result from the ASA is unlikely to satisfy them.

As far as I'm concerned, as a matter of Law, NTL were wrong to produce a misleading advert, it was reported, it has been dealt with. That's what the ASA are there for, that is their job, and they have done it. Assurances have been forthcoming that it won't happen again. Fair cop. Done deal.

What's the point in arguing this further ?

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

What was achieved:
NTL recognised a mistake in their advertisement
Advertisement will not be repeated
Therefore only a limited number of people will be under the impression that spiderman was availiable to download before in cinemas and it was acceptable.

We won't win the nobel prize for it (we just have too much time on our hands). But quite frankly if you don't care why have you been defending them?? I find your attitude lazy and selfish.

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Good point. I think the case does stand on its merits so I'll try to refrain from commenting on it again (I do love an argument tho' ... ;) ) and limit my posts to defending myself if someone wants to paint me as some kind of troll or troublemaker.

I know there are folks out there who want to see ntl die a horrible death; I'm not one of them, and reporting this ad to the ASA wasn't part of a vendetta on my part, nor was it an attempt to add grist to the mill of the 'anti-ntl mobs'.

:Peaceman:

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

Perhaps we should discuss whether sony have any legal right for compensation:D

And was that number for legal downloads of music correct???

Re: NTL promoting copyright infringement
 

I don't think he's lazy or selfish. Even if he were though, better that than bitter and retentive.... :)