Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

The overall level of demand would still go up come wintertime, along with prices. To some extent we are not exporting gas as such, we are merely moving it through pipelines, from our 3 LNG terminals. Germany has no LNG terminals, so has to get LNG supply using terminals in other countries and their pipelines.
The UK gas production is less than half of what we consume, so we will always be reliant on non-UK supplies.
Germany has a large gas storage capacity, and still had higher gas prices.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

Of course you’re right that demand would go up, however the U.K. has 0 long term storage gas we’re producing now is not being stored but is being sold. Meaning when demand does as you say inevitably increase we’re forced to pay an higher price

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

They say they are going save households £1,000. but will not give out the £400. So shouldn't that be £600?
Not much use now or in the near future, with £60bn of borrowing required. Where are they going to get the staff and materials from?
Spending borrowed/stolen money is easy, the problem comes with paying it back. Just look at Greece.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

We have failed to invest sufficiently in alternatives to importing gas and the Conservative Party which has governed the country for the last 12 years and Ofgen must take a large chunk of responsibility for the situation and change tack.

If we can do that, we can reduce our reliance on overseas gas supplies and market volatility.

I'd better shut up now as this is the Starmer and not the energy price thread!

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

Ok but then the cost falls on people.

There is no plan that doesn't involve the Government underwriting the wholesale cost of energy. Give cash to people? Compensate the suppliers for the difference between the current cap and the now frozen new cap? Nationalise the lot and buy the energy passing that onto the consumer at a reduced cost?

All of them involve subsidising the cost of energy. Otherwise we don't and people turn off their heating this winter and even then find they can't afford other things because they're still paying the standing charge.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

Investment requires MONEY to pay for it. So which country has done a better job, and is not having higher prices?
If you're not producing it, you have to import the remainder. No way around that, other than things like fracking. Using UK produced gas doesn't make it cheaper, as it's sold on the international market.
Link

Currently Gas is being used for 49% of electricity. How do you replace that?
Nuclear is 13%, Wind is 3%, Solar 9%. Not a lot of room to expand on non-Gas sources. A five-fold increase in nuclear might just work.
We're importing around 13% of our requirements.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

And what’s it costing now? MONEY. Enough money to plough us into a recession.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

I’m loath to agree with my lefty friends on here but the fact is, absolute shedloads of taxpayers’ MONEY are being shovelled into the utilities right now, simply to maintain the status quo. This is being done by a Conservative government which on the face of it doesn’t believe in having the activities of utility companies on the national balance sheet. Except that now they are, because they’re inevitably borrowing prodigiously to pay for it. Which of course means it’s actually future taxpayers, a.k.a. our kids, who will in time be paying to keep our lights and our hot water working.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

I've gone into more depth on the other thread. But with investment, you generally get a return, with the current subsidies and bailing-out of failed energy suppliers you don't.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

Investment would've increased prices long before now. We would've been paying higher prices for years. Quite separate from current or future costs.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

That’s privatisation in a nutshell though. Bringing forward future profits into a one off windfall. The boomers spaffed it up the wall and current younger generations will pay either way. The question is whether to keep the failed system going or acknowledge it for what it is now, and make the investment for the benefit of future generations or not.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

Bollards.

Investment (if done wisely) facilitates innovation and efficiency, leading to increased profits and, where there is sufficient competition or adequate regulation, lower prices. Consumer electronics are probably the best example of this, as the innovation and efficiency cycle is constant and rapid.

If you’re going to appeal to capitalism at least try to understand how it works.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

Just watch the position change when she becomes PM.

I’m sorry, Den - it’s mid-term and many voters don’t really know who Truss is. There is no way Starmer will beat her. Even his own party don’t like him as their Leader.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

The current polls say otherwise and she will likely have her term during a recession, to cap matters.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

There's an age old saying.

Borrow to Invest is the road to success

Borrow to Spend is the road to the end.

Unfortunately the investing bit should have been done over a decade ago and then maybe we wouldn't be pissing all our cash now.