Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35924707)

Well, it should cut down immigration, which is a principal reason why waiting times have increased.

The other one is that the baby boomers are getting old.

Nothing to do with the management of the NHS.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35924720)

No-one can help Mr K. Bless him, he is still happily sourcing the crappy remoaner gutter rag, theguardian, that he thinks people like you or I are going to be hoodwinked and read the BS that's printed in it. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35924725)

Is there much evidence that immigration is a 'principal reason' waiting times have increased?

Considering that immigrants tend to be healthier and younger it doesn't have to follow that they have. Even with the relatively high amount of immigration we've had these immigrants would probably need to be less healthy than the existing population to have a significant impact.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35924728)

Are you suggesting that an extra 350,000 people in the UK every year isn't going to significantly impact adversely on NHS waiting times? Has there been extra funding to cope with all that? It doesn't much matter whether it's migrants or not but the fact is that most of the UK's rapid population growth over the last decade and more has been due to the migration which New Labour vastly underestimated and higher birth rates within immigrant communities.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35924750)

This should put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Business Growth hits 6 month high in London

http://www.cityam.com/275573/busines...th-high-london

Waits for the inevitable responses from the Remain side: “But we not left yet.”

Remembering when everything was to collapse if leave won. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35924730)

As I said migration to the UK, especially that from Eastern Europe, tends to be younger and fitter whereas the biggest burdens on the NHS are from the elderly and those with chronic conditions. It makes sense that an increase in population relates to an increase in demand only if that population uses the service equally but instead it's very demographic dependent.

I am not saying it's had no impact, although with the proportion of EU nurses and social workers maybe it's even a positive one, but I am not sure it's one of the 'principal' causes of the rise in waiting times.

Everyone goes on and on about immigration without quantifying the impact it's really had on the NHS but you look at something like diabetes and that's had a dramatic impact: https://www.nhs.uk/news/diabetes/dia...icted-to-rise/



10% of the NHS budget, 10%!, relatives only to diabetes. How likely is it immigration comes anywhere near that figure?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35924782)

I think you have missed the point, Damien. I don't know how fit these people are, but given the sheer number of them piling into the UK, there is an obvious impact on our public services, particularly the NHS, not to mention housing, schools, etc.

And before there are any rants, it is not a race or nationality issue. It is a capacity issue. We are not a big country, and we have over-reached our capacity. If the bus you are waiting for turns up but it's full, you would expect to be turned away, wouldn't you?

When we regain control of our affairs, we will be able to pick and choose who we take in, and I dare say that the NHS would be an obvious example of where skills from overseas (not just Europe) would be welcome.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35924708)

Who are you going to blame OB? when many are already going back to their own countries and more will follow as you cannot blame them anymore for this countries increasing ills.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35924782)

I think you have missed the point, Damien. I don't know how fit these people are, but given the sheer number of them piling into the UK, there is an obvious impact on our public services, particularly the NHS, not to mention housing, schools, etc.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35924782)

I think you have missed the point, Damien. I don't know how fit these people are, but given the sheer number of them piling into the UK, there is an obvious impact on our public services, particularly the NHS, not to mention housing, schools, etc.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35924786)

Well, Den, we are looking at why there is such pressure on the NHS, and I am saying that you cannot have a huge influx in your population without there being a consequence for the NHS, and indeed all public services.

If a large number of EU citizens return to Europe, that will reduce pressure on the NHS.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35924787)

No I got the point fine. I was asking if there was much evidence of immigration being one of the principal causes of the rise in waiting times. If it's so obvious it should be easy to quantify, especially given the large impact it's meant to be having.

How fit and healthy immigrants are is important to the question because the NHS is not used equally across demographics.

Not about waiting times this article suggests immigrants from the EU are a small cost compared to other factors and they might even make a net contribution: https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/res...ure-on-the-nhs

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/11/15.png

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35924786)

Well, Den, we are looking at why there is such pressure on the NHS, and I am saying that you cannot have a huge influx in your population without there being a consequence for the NHS, and indeed all public services.

If a large number of EU citizens return to Europe, that will reduce pressure on the NHS.