Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, our COVID death rate is nearly twice that of Germany’s, so your schadenfreude may be a little misplaced... :(

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed, I don't know what the german is for schadenfreude :D but they can certainly look at our record with a certain inner smugness.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My Brazilian friend who lives in Thailand was screaming at her TV earlier as they are reporting from Brazil saying that babies and toddlers are dying due to the new variant.

1300 babies so far, and it's climbing fast.

She has no kids of her own, but her sisters back in Brazil all have baby grandkids.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Got my second Pfizer jab earlier today, all went well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good to hear !

I had my first AstraZeneca jab last Tuesday at about 6pm by 9pm I was laid up in bed shivers, fever, thumping headache, exhausted. Stayed there for two days. Still have sore throat and a horrible metallic taste in my mouth & tenderness in the injection site.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have had the AZ jab and suffered minor cold like symptoms, plus a sore arm.

Both my sister and Brother In-Law and big reactions, both felt like crap and struggled the following day.

I'm wondering if I had a lesser effect as I might have already had Covid-19 back in January 2nd 2020, I remember sitting on my sofa and shivering, I went to bed at 20:30 and waking up at 08:30 on the 4th, I still felt like crap for the week.

Looking back IIRC the experts believed that covid-19 was here in late 2019.

Re: Coronavirus
 

On average people who have had COVID get worse after-effects from the vaccines: https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vacci...eady-had-covid
(The low number of people reporting any after-effects there surprises me. Nearly everyone I know has suffered something or other. I had a week-long headache)

There were certainly some strange things going around in early 2020. Mrs P and I both had very weird "colds" in February 2020. I can't remember the details now, but it was nothing like anything we'd had before.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Finally, BoJo wakes up, smells the coffee and cancels his trip to India.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56800305

Re: Coronavirus
 

India needs adding to the RED list ASAP.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hom3r talks, the Government listens - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56806103

Do you do requests?

Re: Coronavirus
 

:erm:

There are 12 flights arriving from India at Heathrow alone over the next three days (so around 4,000 passengers).

Re: Coronavirus
 

Brilliant, just let them wander in and start another bloody spike, the flights should be banned right now, not Friday ffs.:mad:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Covid re-infection trial to start.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1618877555
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1618877555

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed, the opposition parties have been saying this for some time now and finally BoJo has woken up. In the 21st century, I don't see why so many people need to visit the UK during a pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or carrying it?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The world's gone mad.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-...5Bpost+type%5D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Most probably :(

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...tive-for-covid

Re: Coronavirus
 

And a lot of them asymptomatic...

(And only 4 out (now) 53 passengers aged over 50 years old).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1618919111

Re: Coronavirus
 

:shocked: I didn't look that closely, but that makes you wonder how many asymptomatic 'carriers' are floating about unknowingly, both here and abroad.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some returning are British citizens.


One issue India had earlier was poor day workers leaving cities back to rural areas. This time the government there is trying to dissuade that from happening saying they will be cared for.


Boris doesn't make all the decisions. He can't and has many other plates to keep spinning. I wouldn't envy anyone in authority at this time or even in opposition. What ever you do someone is unhappy. Seems not only does he have to deal with all the changing Covid but also football, economy, race, EU, China/Hong Kong, climate.

Re: Coronavirus
 

COVID doesn’t care about their nationality - they should be quarantined until proven non-contagious

Re: Coronavirus
 

Spot on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed.

And it doesn't help countries with high Covid rates and highly infectious strains to have people travelling to and from their airports either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Don't they still have to prove non-infection already. The BBC site has reports of people who travelled to India and now worried because flights home before Friday are too expensive and neither can they afford quarantine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

If people would behave responsibly(strange concept it seems), then any infection should only be able to spread within that household and no further.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56823627

Re: Coronavirus
 

I looked at the interactive map for our area today, first time Ive done so for a while, it was almost completely white, meaning little to no cases at all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

EU turning a shambles into a chrisis.

Vindicates the UK decision to go our own way on vaccine procurement.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's a good move by Valneva, because the rules of the common procurement scheme allow individual member states to deal directly with a supplier if that supplier isn't in active negotiations with the EU itself. They can probably supply as much vaccine within the EU by dealing directly than they would have by dealing with the EU.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

You may think that, but COVID is waiting behind a tree at the end of your road, and as soon as you go out it will jump on you giver a good kicking. So for your protection the the government will keep all the legislation in place that is passed without scrutiny or a vote, you know, in case it needs it, for your safety............

Re: Coronavirus
 

Very good :D Similar to wee nippy in Scotland, treating the population like school kids, hardly any cases of covid, the majority of people in the vulnerable and over 50s vaccinated, and yet here we are, still under stupid bloody restrictions, like allowing pubs to open indoors till 8pm, but you're not allowed to have an alcoholic drink! She obviously doesn't trust her own people, hopefully it shows in the May elections and the shower of shit called the SNP get punted.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Looks like you’ve finally clicked on the danger of new variants.

Re: Coronavirus
 

heck I need more drink, my imagination is running riot:
Scenario:-

Covid in uniform jumps from behind a tree, clip board at the ready

*excuse me Sir, can I see your Covid vaccination record please?

Paul hands over documents.

Covid in uniform checks off details against his clip board list.

Covid in uniform looks up, grins in a nasty way.

I see you're missing Appalachian variant B26ZX08 . . and pounces :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh yes, especially the new « double mutant « Indian one.

Yes, and if that’s not enough we’ll introduce the « double secret mutant » variant. That’ll sort it.

https://youtu.be/1tfK_3XK4CI

Re: Coronavirus
 

I heard an egghead say the other day that providing it's still covid 19 the vaccine should still offer a good level of protection against any variant, the problem is if it becomes something entirely new like covid 21 but he was also optimistic about that to saying it'd be much easier to control and deal with now we don't have a pandemic running wild.

Tremendous results from the vaccine, the same egghead said out of 34 million vaccinated only 35 have been hospitalised after catching covid

I had my first dose on Wednesday, felt awful yesterday but it's passed now

Terrible stories from India, makes me think there must be something we can do to help them

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or you may think that covid is 'just flu'. ;)

Let's stop with the point scoring and actually debate the issues.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Your rich history of pointless posts continues. ;)

That's enough of the point scoring.Debate the subject.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good news, sooner we're out of lockdown the better.

Full article on link, no paywall.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interesting new vaccine enters phase 3 trials in UK. A vaccine derived from plants.

I wonder what Jonbxx thinks.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1619174072

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, it's an interesting technology, getting plants like tobacco and their close relatives to make drugs. The tech has a fun name 'pharming' ;) Pharming has also been used to make drugs in milk from sheep and cows.

The huge advantage of using plants to make vaccine is the ease of handling. Vaccines are often made using cell culture which is pretty tough and time consuming whereas plant technologies need the skills of your regular gardener once you have the DNA in there.

The downsides are getting the drug out afterwards and scaling up. Plant cells are pretty tough to break down while keeping the virus like particle intact unlike animal or insect cells which just need mild detergents. With scaling, you would think just sow fields of the plants but there are issues with genetically modified crops out there in the wild.

It looks like Medicago have got it working well however and GSKs experience with adjuvants to boost the immune system looks good.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The mentality of 'sooner we're out of lockdown' contributed towards the significant second wave.

The current mentality using the science (to a degree) release brake, observe, release a bit further etc. is the best possible solution. I mean, it only took the government a year to implement it, despite it being blindingly obvious.... but hey ho

Re: Coronavirus
 

Israel have recorded 0 deaths in a day for the first time in over a year. We are incredibly close to success.

No idea why someone would want to risk another lockdown by not taking baby steps over the course of a couple of months. A couple of months in which second vaccinations get into the over 60s and first vaccines to almost everyone.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bang on.....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Taking baby steps during a pandemic is good science.

Taking baby steps to combat an endemic is rediculous.

Source (no paywall)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unless I'm very much mistaken cases are still rapidly increasing globally. Ergo, we are still in pandemic.....

Relaxing too much too quickly will see the current endemic situation we then have an outbreak and we then find ourselves in an another epidemic in this country

Re: Coronavirus
 

Folk should be allowed go to pubs/clubs/football/theater/cinema etc, the vaccination program will have done it's job in the UK.

The big problem is 'allowing' the virus back into the Country, that's where the biggest danger of a resurgence lies.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Except it was in reference to this country, not the world.

---------- Post added at 23:13 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

Amusing, but apples & oranges ....... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Belgium has an even worse way of recording covid deaths than we do, pretty much anyone who died in Belgium at one point was put down as a covid victim iirc

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pandemic is used to describe at the global level, epidemic at the country.

If you remember last year there were complaints about the WHO’s delay in declaring COVID-19 a pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Then take that up with the writer of the article. It doesn't change anything in regards to the UK.

Re: Coronavirus
 

With Covidiots like these expect another wave then


https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-st...ondon-12285712

Re: Coronavirus
 

What's happening in India is awful. There is a full-scale humanitarian crisis unfolding and it's only getting worse. 1 million people with COVID in the last few days but that's with shaky testing data, the real number is likely to be higher.

There are videos of people driving their mothers and fathers to the hospital pleading for a bed but the hospitals are at capacity, the staff are working well above capacity, and so the families are trying to persuade their relatives to keep breathing as they lay in the back of a vehicle. It's so awful.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unlikely.
The protests last year seemed to have little effect, no reason for these to be any different.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Leading scientists are recommending that requirements for social distancing and face masks should be scrapped in the UK due to the success of the vaccination programme.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...control-lives/

[EXTRACT]

Social distancing should be abolished in June to allow people "to take back control of their own lives", a letter signed by 22 leading scientists and academics says.

The open letter states that "a good society cannot be created by obsessive focus on a single cause of ill-health" and calls for all restrictions to be lifted on June 21 – the final date in Boris Johnson's roadmap out of lockdown.

Mass community testing is also unnecessary, say the signatories, who favour a more targeted approach along with encouraging hand-washing and surface cleaning.

They are also urging the Government to scrap vaccine passports as Covid "no longer requires exceptional measures of control in everyday life".

Ending social distancing restrictions would allow family members from different households to meet up inside and give many grandparents the opportunity to hug their grandchildren for the first time in months.

The scientists – from a broad range of specialities and all sides of the political spectrum – insist the "theoretical risk" of vaccine-immune strains or a new virus surge should not outweigh the harms caused by lockdown rules, including damage to children's education and the nation's mental health.

The scientists say face masks should not be mandatory come June 21 and that the recommendation of face coverings for schoolchildren should never have been extended after Easter. Calling for masks to be ended in classrooms by May 17, they warn that the damage to society will be too great if the current Covid control measures continue into the autumn.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes the numbers do appear horrendous vs rest of world.

India 138/million deaths

UK 1,869/million

Looks a lot different when taken in context.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1619348826

Re: Coronavirus
 

That would be the scientists the Torygraph chooses to quote. Others say different. They have their stocks and share portfolios at heart, not the health of the nation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Would those be the same scientists who, in the Telegraph in October last year, said

Re: Coronavirus
 

The thing is distancing and masks bridge the gap between now and normal. Open more. Get the economy going.

The alternative is genuinely another lockdown.

All the plus sides of an open society are achievable sooner by doing the right things in the interim. Not blindly following the same people who have been wrong throughout the pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's people NOT distancing, wearing masks etc that is creating the need for lockdowns. If people were behaving properly and responsibly, then the virus should've all died out months ago, as there would've been no opportunity for it to spread.
Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well I will carry a mask with me once the restriction end.


I will probably were a mask inside large crowded areas, plus I will more than likely wear a mask inside next late autumn / winter.

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 ----------


:clap:100%

Re: Coronavirus
 

The data speaks for itself. Given that all vulnerable groups have been offered the vaccination, and most will be getting their second jab within a few weeks, mask wearing and social distancing should be deemed unnecessary from 17 May. Those not vaccinated are predominantly from non-vulnerable groups and so the NHS will not now be in danger of being overwhelmed.

The virus will be out there for years yet, so people have to learn to live with it and have regular vaccination boosters as required.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The data says no such thing.

You are back at "vaccinate the vulnerable" which is the new "shield the vulnerable".

The virus may well be "out there" for years yet but had we followed your defeatist approach we'd have opened up before we even had a vaccine.

Why anyone would consider mask wearing as "unnecessary" when there's a respiratory virus going around is absolutely beyond me. It costs next to nothing and has some impact. If that keeps society open all the better.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Could you please provide a link* to "the science" which supports that mask wearing and social distancing is unnecessary?

https://www.newscientist.com/article...sease-experts/ *Great Barrington Declaration doesn't count... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

We don't do it for flu and now we have vaccinations, we don't need to do it for Covid either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah "it's just a flu". Explains a lot.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why? I quoted the leading scientists and academics who made the argument that continued use of masks and requirements to social distancing would not be necessary. I was merely agreeing with them.

If you want to argue the toss, knock yourself out. I'm sure you'll find something obscure that will lead you to believe you have made your point.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

Except I did not just say that. But the risks will be proportionate now we have a vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As at May 17 how many people will have had the vaccine? How many both doses? How effective is the vaccine at both one and two doses?

Essentially you are seeking to roll the dice under the guise of "proportionality" despite being 100% wrong in every single engagement with this thread.

Once the whole population, able and willing, have been vaccinated we will be in a better position. Once they have been twice even better again.

On May 17th we are in just the right amount of a precarious situation for it to all to wrong and go back into lockdown by July.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Get the popcorn ready guys.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1619454546
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1619454546

See [c] below.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1619454611

Re: Coronavirus
 

Except we can’t see who the ‘leading scientists’ are, because the article is behind a paywall, and the extract doesn’t name them...

Update - found a link in another paper - it’s mostly the Great Barrington mob who were proved wrong last year, when they said there wouldn’t be a second wave...

Is the fact they were completely wrong last year too "obscure" for you?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scrap-soci...082935924.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m not aware that they said there would not be a second wave. Do you have a link for that, Hugh?

:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.thearticle.com/herd-immu...ethal-strategy https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1619463539

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13...ons-quarantine Another of Sunetra Gupta’s predictions hasn’t aged well...

https://www.financialexpress.com/lif...rward/2124438/ Are multiple sources using their own words unobscure enough for you?

;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

As usual it was a split opinion, as it has been all the way through this pandemic. You can find an opinion to fit your argument.

As I recall, a big second wave wasn’t predicted, well not that I read anyway. A big initial wave followed by several lesser waves is what I read, and that is the way is was looking until that new more communicative variant hit the South East and London, exasperated by the poor decision not to lockdown London and that ripple turned into a Tsunami.

But things are going well, I see no reason to deviate from the current road map.

But they had better not renege on their promises without overwhelming evidence and compelling reason

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or else what?

The perpetually wrong get outraged for a few more weeks?

I'm starting to think that some people are desperate to see Britain fail because they enjoy lockdown. That's the only coherent reason for being so consistently wrong regardless of the evidence. A broken clock is right twice a day by pure chance. Some of these "scientists" have had 15 months.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What would be the reason for extending restrictions if there wasn’t an “overwhelming evidence and compelling reason” to?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why the need for “overwhelming” or “compelling”?

You’ve introduced two thresholds for evidence there to artificially and unnecessarily raise the bar. Let’s face it as long as ICU has been below capacity some have never considered the evidence for the restrictions to be overwhelming or compelling ignoring the time lag between cases and hospitalisations.

Get it right once we get it right for good. Get it wrong once and we are back to January. Instead of moving forward slowly we are moving backwards to come back to this point in 2 or 3 months. The economic impact of moving backwards alone is enough to justify moving forwards slowly if evidence far beneath “overwhelming” and “compelling” justifies it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You are the one constantly wanting lockdowns.

Lockdowns do not kill off the virus, they merely delay transmission of it. Immunisation kills off the virus, not lockdowns.

---------- Post added at 07:42 ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 ----------

Thank you for taking the trouble to find this, Hugh.

Those quotes are explainable, though. Notice that Gupta claimed that IF there was already herd immunity in the population, the virus was on its way out.

She said that 'most part of Maharashtra must have developed herd immunity by now… But there must be other areas where immunity has not progressed that much.'

The urging of a doctor (not sure which one that was) not to panic but to be cautious was surely good advice, but of course we later found that a new strain was much more infectious. This caught many scientists off guard.

I do understand why people are worried about this horrible virus, but I don't think those people who are still urging us to wear masks and to social distance are taking proper account of the success of the vaccination programme. This virus is clearly not going away, but you cannot expect the population to endure these restrictions forever. That's just control freakery.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah the classic OB straw man.

On the contrary OB. My stance all along has been that the decision making behind the belated first lockdown - the same decision making in most of the major capitalist economies in the world reaching the same conclusion - still applies unless something changes in substance.

That still applies - the vaccine leaves us in a better position to ease restrictions. It doesn't put us on an immediate and absolute course to no restrictions on May 17. A laughable proposition.

Nobody anywhere claimed lockdowns kill off the virus. All they can achieve is to remove it from the community if willing to take the hard path. Two straw men in one post. Magnificent.

If Gupta was a credible scientist rather than a paid stooge of financial interests she might offer conclusions of scientific merit and not PR.

Re: Coronavirus
 

COVID-19: Every fine issued to coronavirus 'rule-breakers' should be reviewed, says committee

Every single fine issued by the police to people deemed to be breaking COVID-19 restrictions must be reviewed amid concerns they are "discriminatory and unfair", a committee of MPs and peers has said.


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...ittee-12287611

Re: Coronavirus
 

But Maharashtra currently has one of the highest incidences of COVID infections in India - how could this be so if they had reached "herd immunity" last year?

Carl Heneghan said on the 20th October (as quoted above) "no sign of a Second Wave" - this was over a month after BoJo said the UK is ""now seeing a second wave"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54212654

Re: Coronavirus
 

I suppose if you look hard enough you'll be able to find people who still think the earth is flat and the moon is made from cream cheese.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Look hard enough?

You're joking, twitter, facebook and youtube are only a click away :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

So is page 325 of this thread.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am constantly amazed by how many people over here (especially in the South) are swayed by conspiracy theories and debunked claims.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56905752

Re: Coronavirus
 

Since they didnt say that it explains nothing. :sleep:

Its just [another] virus would be more like it.

The problem was we didnt have [any] immunity.
Now we do, and more [and more] have been vaccinated.

It may not be the flu, but there is no obvious reason to treat it any differently [than the flu] once the vast majority have our immunity (and likely annual vaccinations).

Re: Coronavirus
 

The point the vast majority are vaccinated (twice) comes some time after May 17. OB has fundamentally downplayed the virus since the very start favouring no restrictions at any point, questioning the viability of a vaccine and sticking to the same mantra now that we have one.

It is clearly more of a threat to our health and our economy than the flu will be and every other virus. The extent that threat remains after vaccination is unclear, but it's not a binary position between restrictions and none.

On a seperate note Tony "in the know" Blair's institute for making money is talking up a delay in easing restrictions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...id-in-uk-study

Obviously he's an insider with access so I'd expect this to be Government policy after the May elections.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Study shows 1st dose of vaccine reduces transmission.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56904993

Re: Coronavirus
 

Don't tell the lock down lovers, it doesn't fit their narrative.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I like being the bearer of bad news for them.;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well if they will insist on importing new cases and variants.:mad:
Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Excellent news - anything that reduces the risk of transmission can only be good.

Really bad news for the virus lovers.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed it is excellent news. Makes you wonder why some want to (and indeed are desperate to) take short cuts when we are dishing out half a million vaccines a day.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Surely not....:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

As expected there will be a vacine autumn programme.

Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...rope-from-june

And great news if we can get it into teenagers given the inability to properly mitigate Covid in educational settings through NPIs.

They too will soon be 38% less likely to spread the virus on one shot of vaccine.