Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

I suspect the leave voters are trying to sabotage this thread so they can deny the present too.

The dream is crumbling along with this Government.

Re: Brexit
 

If you have nothing to say, why post? Are you that bored?

Re: Brexit
 

I refer to my last post, the most recent post that didn’t contradict moderator instructions. I welcome any input that isn’t a personal insult.

Re: Brexit
 

As I have maintained a second referendum is not an issue for me, but what it asks is.


I think the result would be too close to call, a second referendum is a massive gamble for Parliament. Because, regardless of opinion polls, it is one they could very well lose. Then what??? For them?

A second referendum is a possibility, but I think they will try some other avenue to revoke A50 “temporarily” for an indeterminate amount of time until they are convinced they would win (by they I mean parliament) a referendum.

Can I personally insult you later?

Re: Brexit
 

The strangest remark so far on this thread ... and there have been many :)

Re: Brexit
 

Haulage bosses say plans for customs ‘dire’ and government in denial over scale of issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...no-deal-brexit

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Sorry you considered it as personal but I would consider it applied to anyone of you POV (not you personally). Can we leave it there?

2nd referendum. not a hope in hell!

Remain or leave has already been decided and no deal with any Country or Bloc has ever been decided by the electorate.

Re: Brexit
 

You are inviting reopening a discussion you been told to leave. Whether you’d use the insult in a blanket fashion is irrelevant.

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

If the 48 letters are in can Corbyn get there first or does he wait and see who wins the Tory leadership? Does May actually win it?

Re: Brexit
 

There was nothing in the 2015 EU Referendum Act that made the outcome of the referendum legally binding.

In 2010 the House Of Lords Constitution Committee explained that referendums in this country can only ever be advisory because of the sovereignty of Parliament. The only way that they could become legally binding would be if Parliament actively agreed to bind itself to the result of a future referendum.

Confusion has been caused by people e.g. the former Culture Secretary Karen Bradley erroneously saying that the result was actually binding.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

It’ll sound pedantic, but the fact Parliament chose to introduce legislation on the back of the result doesn’t prove the result in and of itself was legally binding upon Parliament.

The legal status of the referendum is that Parliament chose to follow the advice. No statement by any Minister or any document produced by the Government and posted into every home in the country can change that. If a Government policy was to follow the result again that’s a manifesto commitment with no legal status.

The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is legally binding until such times as Parliament withdraws or amends it.

I know, it’s pedantic, and of no real consequence to what may/may not happen in future anyway. All the options are on the table. Deal, no deal, extension, remain (2nd referendum optional but politically very likely required before remain).

Alternatively a party could win a general election with a commitment to remain and unilaterally withdraw A50 but I’m sure despite much disagreement on this thread we would all agree that’s unlikely! Politically and legally, it’d be legit tho.

Re: Brexit
 

EU Parliament on lock down following a shooting incident in Strasbourg Centre Christmas market. EU staff said to be safe in their building.

It'll be interesting to find out if this has got anything to do with Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

May's strategy:

• * Frame the choice in January as being her deal or a chaotic no-deal Brexit.
  * To ensure this, meaningful no-deal planning has been put on hold with no solution existing for the crucial Dover-Calais route.
  * Will tell her cabinet on Wednesday to ramp up no-deal planning, but as this is too late in the day its true purpose will be to emphasise the oncoming chaos if there is no deal.
  * Concessions squeezed out of Europe will be used to win over some of the Eurosceptics.

https://www.ft.com/content/c14c8f1c-...0-57a2a826423e

Re: Brexit
 

So if Corbyn talks about a 2nd referendum can he actually do this if the original is binding or doesn't this apply to a new Government?

Re: Brexit
 

Tim Shipman@ShippersUnbound
28 minutes ago

I know I’m hours after the fray. But source in No10 says 48 letters are in and second source says conversations have taken place between Cabinet Office and Palace

Re: Brexit
 

A previous Government cannot bind a future government’s legislation.

Re: Brexit
 

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Just breaking on BBC News - vote of confidence on Theresa May taking place this evening, as 48 (or more) letters received by the 1922 Committee.

Simple majority of Tory MPs required.

Re: Brexit
 

It’d be funny if she held on.

Re: Brexit
 

I’m slightly surprised it’s taken this long.

Re: Brexit
 

At the moment you assume she’ll survive but the DUP might theaten to bring down the government...

Re: Brexit
 

Did not the DUP say that they would support the government in a vote of confidence in parliament?.

Re: Brexit
 

DUP have said as long her her deal doesn’t pass they will back the Government in a no confidence vote. That’s not to say they can’t change their mind depending on who (and what) proposals step forward. It’s not legally binding. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Timetable for the day.

Re: Brexit
 

She’s about to speak imminently... your timetable could be in the bin if she chucks it. :D

Re: Brexit
 

l doubt it unless you have some inside knowledge.;)

Re: Brexit
 

Powerful words. Back me or it’s no deal vs no Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

A governing party tearing itself apart..

Re: Brexit
 

What a shambles this country is. Betting she'll comfortably survive, seeing as they struggled for so long just to get 48 letters. . Turkeys don't vote for Xmas, especially at this time of the year !

Re: Brexit
 

And the civil war which is engulfing the Conservative party is highly likely to get even worse Mr K.

Re: Brexit
 

Oh good, I'll get some popcorn in ;).

Seriously what a selfish load of muppets, jostling for power whilst the country goes down the pan. This has all Brexit has-been about, individuals, ambition and power.

Re: Brexit
 

The whole lot of them are a right pain at the moment. The public may have no love for policies but they really don't like back stabbing and behaviour like that.

Labour must be rejoicing that they don't have to take the risk.

Re: Brexit
 

You really are turning into the Joan Collins of CF :D:D .

---------- Post added at 09:26 ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 ----------

I love it. Democracy at it's best :):):)

We will get through all this don't worry . It's actually part of the cycle of change ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Thank you dear as l will introduce her great nemesis soon.;):D

Re: Brexit
 

Nope, the fact that the government decided to initiate the act of leaving after the referendum does not mean it was legally bound to implement the result of the referendum.

Previously, government has only cared about the will of the people during election campaigns. There's a reason they seem to care about it all the time now. Personally, I think it's so they can blame the people for the mess they are making.

Re: Brexit
 

May to fight confidence vote - and says: 'I'm ready to finish the job'

https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-...lenge-11578479

Re: Brexit
 

Andrex Classic White Toilet Rolls should help ;);)


https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/produc...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

:D:D:D

Re: Brexit
 

Personally I think it'd be right to let the public take some of the blame. 'Project Fear' warned of chaos, it is, and Brexit hasn't happened yet.

Re: Brexit
 

Cabinet meeting is binned .

Re: Brexit
 

Not denying that.. When the referendum happened, Private Eye had an article about Brexiters crowing about how the predicted economic apocalypse hadn't happened, and the article pointed out that the reason the **** hadn't hit the fan is the fan had not started spinning yet.

Actually, that should have been an indicator of the level of detail the leave campaign worked at. They were crowing because mere days after the vote, the economy hadn't collapsed. As far as I remember, no one said any of the predicted disasters would happen before we left the EU. Based on their public statements, I've seen nothing that indicates that the current Brexiters (Johnson, Davis, Gove, Rees-Mogg, Rahb etc) go any deeper. Not a good thing in a government minister.

Re: Brexit
 

Just like the parliament vote yesterday..

Re: Brexit
 

Any chaos is down to the remain side promoting fear and uncertainty, and continually insisting on blocking the result of a democratic vote. Just look at the time and effort put into trying to overturn the vote, rather than making Brexit a success.

Re: Brexit
 

Precisely - a lot of the Fake News Remainers in Government and civil service have caused this delay shambles - how can Brexiteers be responsible, when ALL we have wanted is to immediately leave the EU in it's entirety?

Had a true Brexiteer being steering the ship - they would have got on with leaving the corrupted, cancerous EU.

The Naivety now being shown by many of the Remainers, with calls for a second referendum AKA a "Losers vote", which it is exactly that, that they hope to win and us Brexiteers will just ride along with this bullshit should there be some chance they win, why should their win be implemented when ours was not - it will not fly and this country will be more divided than ever.

Re: Brexit
 

of course no brexiteer ever told lies right the hard brexiteers gonna look stupid later when May wins

Re: Brexit
 

Well she has certainly looked clueless if her previous episodes are anything to go by as she stated there would be no general election countless times which of course there was then a election which mortally wounded her premiership so much so we have a minority government now.

She stated there would be a vote on Tuesday evening so she sent out her cabinet ministers on Tuesday morning and then two hours later called of the vote.

She said no deal is better then a bad deal and then stated her deal is the only deal on the table.

She then said this is the only deal on the table and then changes her mind and goes back to the EU to try to get concessions from them which to put it bluntly she has no chance of getting.

Re: Brexit
 

I don’t know what a hard Brexiteer is. I know what a Brexiteer is. Someone who voted to leave the EU. There is no other distinction.

Re: Brexit
 

Whatever way you look at it, the remain side are speculating about problems or are actually creating them in the first place, eg delaying tactics and promoting weakness in negotiating position.

Re: Brexit
 

Maybe it just is a weak negotiating position and Brexit is madness. It's supporters had no plan and have left Remainers to pick up the pieces. They've been rumbled. Blame anyone and everyone except themselves seems to be their only response.

Re: Brexit
 

I'm all for that. That's the referendum I want to see.

Re: Brexit
 

Twitter has been great fun this morning. Michael Deacon of The Telegraph and Marina Hyde of The Guardian have been especially good value!

A tweet from The Secret Barrister made me laugh;

The arguments in response to this tweet are amazing, some greats ones from all sides and some cracking fruitloopery - https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/...72452923686912

Re: Brexit
 

Suits me aswell, if people genuinely want to be poorer and the country in general chaos, then fair enough.

Re: Brexit
 

l thought this was a great tweet yesterday.

Re: Brexit
 

How can you have a fully detailed plan when you supposedly can't predict how the EU would respond? Especially when those in charge of creating and implementing any plan seem to be firmly in the remain camp. Trade agreements are not meant to be about strength and weakness and imposing your will. The Eu seems to forget that and are just being vindictive. What is wrong with agreements that are to a mutual benefit.

Re: Brexit
 

Like membership of the EU? Plenty of mutual benefit there.

What we can’t actualll quantify is what we have to offer the EU at all? Our finance and service sectors are more likely to give themselves a European presence (because of the size of the market) than export their services into the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

<snigger>

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1544617967

Re: Brexit
 

The EEC might have been a mutual benefit, but the EU along with the expansion to the East isn't.

Re: Brexit
 

Stability on our eastern frontier as Russia tries to extend its sphere of influence?

Re: Brexit
 

More bollocks. Brexiteers cannot be blamed when they have not been steering the ship. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

May signals to Tories that she will stand aside before general election if she wins vote.

Re: Brexit
 

They’ve all held key offices, with true exception of Mogg.

Re: Brexit
 

Lots of people can steer a ship, but usually only in the direction the Captain orders ;)

Re: Brexit
 

It's just a shame she didn't do what we asked and that was to leave the EU then do talks.

She has tried to carry out a deal for all and it hasn't worked it should have stayed with leave or remain not this crap inbetween

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------


Totally agree,

We voted out, remain got to decide how and now look at the state of it.

Re: Brexit
 

And as previously said, those brexiteers in cabinet positions have been overruled. Brexiteers cannot be blamed-end of discussion.

Re: Brexit
 

I don’t agree with that interpretation of events. As I’ve stated before the adults have had to step in because of the incoherent stance of leave campaigners.

Liam Fox and Michael Gove have seen the light. I’m not sure why the rest haven’t, but then we all accept leaving is economically irrational.

Re: Brexit
 

End of discussion - again? Thread closed then ?

Re: Brexit
 

Don't be daft Mr K as we do live in a democracy where one can discuss , debate and agree and disagree.

Re: Brexit
 

By all means discuss but we have a remain PM by which remain argue she stepped upto the plate.

She's made a mess of it so how has she done any better than someone who is pro brexit?


By staying in the EU then I can only assume those that want to remain are happy with becoming a federal state?

Re: Brexit
 

you could also say that a great many believe staying is economically irrational, especially those who have seen jobs lost or wages reduced.

When you talk of the economy, it's sometimes hard to envisage it in terms of the people at the bottom, those to whom £30 a week less is a lot of money.

Re: Brexit
 

Philip Hammond on Sky News.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

Re: Brexit
 

For the Brexit elite like Rees-Mogg, BoJo, Farage and co it is. For the rest of us it's easier.

Re: Brexit
 

I don’t see how people at the bottom benefit from Brexit. It’s not like the money will be used to take people out of poverty, reform Universal Credit, solve the housing crisis, increase the minimum wage, or any meaningful steps to benefit people in poverty in this country.

Lower economic growth, lower tax revenues and lower investment aren’t going to help our poorest.

Re: Brexit
 

They do seem to have miscalculated (again) with this. The vote against her might be embarrassingly small and she'll end up stronger. Might even convert a few to backing the crappy deal now the ERG are sidelined as an irrelevance.

Re: Brexit
 

Hard Brexit dies today. With one year to implement her vision Mrs May has the freedom to extend A50 if required, and use the spectre of no Brexit to marshal her party into line. It’ll be a fantastic watch.

Re: Brexit
 

Do get me front row tickets.:)

Re: Brexit
 

You'd be better off up on the balcony, well away from the burning torches and pitchforks :D

Re: Brexit
 

If it's NI that the issue, tar and feathers used to be the way. :D

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

sky news saying 168 have said publicly they voting for her

Re: Brexit
 

She will win comfortably Dave but the civil war over Europe will continue unabated..

Re: Brexit
 

very true Den and we still be in this chaos for long time

Re: Brexit
 

Secret ballot tho

Re: Brexit
 

Do you think there could be a few white lies being told then?.

Re: Brexit
 

Has any politician ever told the truth?

Re: Brexit
 

May is saying she won't take this as a mandate to stay on for years, which is a odd concession to make if the whips were confident of a win.

Although I have also heard Tory MPs saying their constituency associations aren't pleased with the timing of this

Re: Brexit
 

The whips have allowed 2 suspended Tory MPs get the whip back for tonight's big vote but according to several sources they say would they be doing this if the private numbers were anything like the public ones.

---------- Post added at 16:38 ---------- Previous post was at 16:37 ----------

Certainly not papa but its certainly got worse IMO.

Re: Brexit
 

May has told the 22 committee she'll not fight the next election...but what if the next election is next month?

Re: Brexit
 

I applaud your optimism not matter how misguided.:D

Re: Brexit
 

Theo Usherwood LBC political editor just said on LBC May not ruled out a snap general election

Re: Brexit
 

l thought this tweet was funny.

Re: Brexit
 

and what he said about Boris is very true :D:D:D

Re: Brexit
 

Not a great fan of Theresa May but if it came down to who one would support there simply would be no contest as Boris Johnson has never had the calibre or trustworthiness to be the leader of the Conservative party let alone be prime minister of the country.

Re: Brexit
 

Back at 9pm.

Re: Brexit
 

Sounds reasonable.

Re: Brexit
 

Tonight's One Show will end early and the Chris Bavin show at 8pm will be rescheduled as BBC1 will be showing a special programme about today's events.

Re: Brexit
 

For many that voted the economy was not the overriding issue.

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

It won’t be, it’ll be in 2022. She’ll step down either in October 2019 or 2020.

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

Pointless statement.

She hasn’t ruled out a career as a pole dancer after being PM either.

Re: Brexit
 

It might have to be. I don’t see how this government lasts that long when they can’t do anything.

Re: Brexit
 

I suppose that is reliant on if May gets replaced or not and if the DUP are happy with any replacement.