Re: Brexit
 

As has been said many, many, many, many , many times before for those of the hard of understanding.

We’re not negotiating a FTA, we’re trying to negotiate a Withdrawl agreement.

A FTA should be very easy as we’re already aligned regulatory wise. Which is also why a backstop should not be needed and is obviously for some other reason.

---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 20:34 ----------

You need to take a big big spoonful of realism.....try it, let go, free yourself you’ll feel better.

Re: Brexit
 

I think it's reasonable to say that the island of Ireland wants no border and the north would prefer to remain in the customs union to facilitate cross border trade.

It's only the Members for the 17th Century, the DUP, who want to see otherwise. Polling in Great Britain considers it a price worth paying for an orderly Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

One myth about Theresa May's deal that needs dispelling.

We can never be trapped in a permanent customs union. As a sovereign nation we can always quit any kind of arrangement by resorting to the Vienna convention on international treaties.

Re: Brexit
 

As long as that union did not differentiate them from the rest of the UK, defacto unifying the Island of Ireland and separating from the UK.

they are protecting the interests of their voters, that are as British as someone from Norwich.

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------

But then we’re no further along as we are now?

Better to sort it out, or not, now.

Re: Brexit
 

Northern Ireland already has different laws - e.g. abortion as stated above.

It could easily retain it's own identity, the Queen and alignment to the UK over the vast vast majority of areas. Which most of them would probably vote for given the choice.

This farce is only going to push a united Ireland closer. Without bringing up who is likely to die off sooner rather than later, the birth rate is higher in nationalist voting communities than the unionist communities.

Brexit is truly an exceptional act of British Nationalism removing the objectivity of normally rational people over a huge number of issues.

Re: Brexit
 

With a Customs Union we would have to slavishly follow EU rules, WITHOUT having any say in them. We would NOT be able to set our own rules. We also would NOT be able to do other trade deals with other countries in product/service areas covered by the Customs Union. We would have to apply the same import tariffs that the EU tells us to. Turkey may be happy with that, then again the EU is gives them BILLIONS in cash.

Re: Brexit
 

There’s a joke in there about Catholic’s and Protestants, but I don’t need to go there as Monty Python did.

https://youtu.be/bzVHjg3AqIQ

https://youtu.be/PDBjsFAyiwA

Enjoy!

Re: Brexit
 

I just explained that we can never be trapped in a Customs Union. Nothing you have said alters that fact.

Re: Brexit
 

But then we would be in a "no deal" situation. Those things/situations would exist as long as we part of(ie a slave to) a Customs Union. A customs union isn't the solution to anything.

Re: Brexit
 

The assertion that Theresa May's deal traps us in a Customs Union indefinitely is false. That is the point I am making.

Re: Brexit
 

It doesn’t automatically trap us in a customs union forever, but if the backstop as currently conceived is triggered, it does trap us in one until the EU agrees we can leave. Unlike Article 50, under which we have the right to walk away, the backstop within the withdrawal agreement surrenders that right. Given the many things various EU members might want to extract concessions over - fishing access, Gibraltar, to name but two - it is intolerable for us to allow ourselves to be trapped in such a way. The backstop is such an insane idea that I have trouble believing May ever believed it would get past Parliament. In fact I find it easier to believe that she brought it back so that parliament could reject it and (hopefully) strengthen her hand to gain a better deal from the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Emotive language to inflame things.

I’m part of a relationship, not a slave to it.

Re: Brexit
 

No sovereign nation can be trapped in such a way. We can leave by resorting to the Vienna Convention on International Treaties.

Re: Brexit
 

Fish!

Considering the £600bn trade between Britain and the EU (and the rebate!), there’s a lot of emphasis on something in the we net loss in small hundreds of millions once you factor in what we fish in EU waters.

I can’t help but think it’s purely emotive. “It’s our fish”. Just as they say in Scotland “it’s oor oil”.

Re: Brexit
 

Unusual development.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...ction-13951871

---------- Post added at 22:50 ---------- Previous post was at 22:48 ----------

Exactly. Emotional more than rational.