Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35285977)

3 people killed trying to protect their homes.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-violence.html

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35285968)

all respect has gone now. these events will flare up anytime they feel like it. and for any reason they choose.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35285961)

Which is exactly what the BBC are reporting.

UK Riots: trouble erupts in English cities

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35285991)

I don't think anyone is saying it's just the English that are doing this. But the problems are confined to England.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35285990)

if they subsequently walk away or get a slap on the wrist it'll only serve to prove that the risk/reward ratio is stacked up in favour of the lawbreakers.
This will do nothing to disuade these people from taking part in similar acts in the future.

Originally Posted by BBC Rolling News Feed

A 16-year-old looter from Manchester tells BBC 5 live he will continue participating in the violence and theft until he gets caught, because it is his first offence and nothing will happen.

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35285998)

True.
it'll work in the way that say one person is charged with smashing a shop window stealing hundreds of pounds worth of stuff and then setting fire to the place resulting in thousands of pounds worth of damage. getting a supervision order.

or at worst. insufficient evidence and no charges at all.

they have nothing to lose. the rewards outweigh the punishment to a lot of these people.

it's the same kind of thing where the more offences you commit in one go. you come better off than just commiting the one offence.

such as driving with no insurance, no MOT, no TAX, no licence. causing thousands of pounds worth of damage. nearly killing innocent people. and failing to stop for police.

in some cases you will get the same punishment as someone who has been stopped for driving with an illegal tyre and an expired tax disc.

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35286001)

I haven't been following this thread in detail, but feel it's time to add my bit.

It is one thing people saying the police aren't doing enough, one needs to look a lot deeper at society. The reality is that the **** are running around without fear of anything happening even if they suffer the misfortune of getting caught

At some stage society has to stop pandering to human rights namby pamby stuff and be prepared to lock people up for durations that make a real difference, not just offer petty slaps on the wrist community service, or meaningless fines that don't hurt these people in the first place because they haven't got money to pay them, and have so much free time because they don't do school, or are jobless. If that means jails are orvercrowded, tough, it's not supposed to be pleasant in there. So while we have the supposed party of law and order, conservatives, in charge with people like Kenneth Clarke then saying we need to cut sentences, the government in fact is creating the lax atmosphere leading to this situation.

One must also look at society's expectations of the police. On the one hand we want them to be robust. When they are inevitably you get all the complaints of human rights and stuff. One only has to look at the previous student protests when kettling was used. Society cannot have this both ways. If there are people out there intent on running amok then unfortunately all who are in the area will come under suspicion until proven otherwise.

One must also accept there are issues with how the legal system requires any one arrested to be dealt with. If a suspect is arrested then the officers involved will become involved with very time consuming custodial and evidence recording procedures. They won't be available to continue policing for many hours leaving their colleagues more thinly stretched. Is it any wonder therefore that sometimes the police in these situations didn't worry about the minor offences, especially if they are getting evidence they can use later in slow time, to wait for the most serious problems as they try and contain order.

People talk of using the army? I suggest not bringing them onto the streets, leave that to the police, but if there is now a problem with cell capacity, even in police stations or prisons, then use the army to create temporary holding areas, if need be putting the **** in tents. The could even be made to dig their own latrines.

And finally, what is happening now is not about any sort of social statement, it's about opportunism and organised theft. An awful lot of the looting is co-ordinated. The fires and stuff are often a distraction to get the authorities into a different place whilst just down the road the real value target is emptied This was the case in Croydon where the Reeves furniture shop was torched while a nearby Comet was emptied.

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35286001)

And finally, what is happening now is not about any sort of social statement, it's about opportunism and organised theft. An awful lot of the looting is co-ordinated. The fires and stuff are often a distraction to get the authorities into a different place whilst just down the road the real value target is emptied This was the case in Croydon where the Reeves furniture shop was torched while a nearby Comet was emptied.

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35286006)

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35286001)

I haven't been following this thread in detail, but feel it's time to add my bit.

It is one thing people saying the police aren't doing enough, one needs to look a lot deeper at society. The reality is that the **** are running around without fear of anything happening even if they suffer the misfortune of getting caught


At some stage society has to stop pandering to human rights namby pamby stuff and be prepared to lock people up for durations that make a real difference, not just offer petty slaps on the wrist community service, or meaningless fines that don't hurt these people in the first place because they haven't got money to pay them, and have so much free time because they don't do school, or are jobless. If that means jails are orvercrowded, tough, it's not supposed to be pleasant in there. So while we have the supposed party of law and order, conservatives, in charge with people like Kenneth Clarke then saying we need to cut sentences, the government in fact is creating the lax atmosphere leading to this situation.

One must also look at society's expectations of the police. On the one hand we want them to be robust. When they are inevitably you get all the complaints of human rights and stuff. One only has to look at the previous student protests when kettling was used. Society cannot have this both ways. If there are people out there intent on running amok then unfortunately all who are in the area will come under suspicion until proven otherwise.

One must also accept there are issues with how the legal system requires any one arrested to be dealt with. If a suspect is arrested then the officers involved will become involved with very time consuming custodial and evidence recording procedures. They won't be available to continue policing for many hours leaving their colleagues more thinly stretched. Is it any wonder therefore that sometimes the police in these situations didn't worry about the minor offences, especially if they are getting evidence they can use later in slow time, to wait for the most serious problems as they try and contain order.

People talk of using the army? I suggest not bringing them onto the streets, leave that to the police, but if there is now a problem with cell capacity, even in police stations or prisons, then use the army to create temporary holding areas, if need be putting the **** in tents. The could even be made to dig their own latrines.

And finally, what is happening now is not about any sort of social statement, it's about opportunism and organised theft. An awful lot of the looting is co-ordinated. The fires and stuff are often a distraction to get the authorities into a different place whilst just down the road the real value target is emptied This was the case in Croydon where the Reeves furniture shop was torched while a nearby Comet was emptied.

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35286001)

I haven't been following this thread in detail, but feel it's time to add my bit.

It is one thing people saying the police aren't doing enough, one needs to look a lot deeper at society. The reality is that the **** are running around without fear of anything happening even if they suffer the misfortune of getting caught


At some stage society has to stop pandering to human rights namby pamby stuff and be prepared to lock people up for durations that make a real difference, not just offer petty slaps on the wrist community service, or meaningless fines that don't hurt these people in the first place because they haven't got money to pay them, and have so much free time because they don't do school, or are jobless. If that means jails are orvercrowded, tough, it's not supposed to be pleasant in there. So while we have the supposed party of law and order, conservatives, in charge with people like Kenneth Clarke then saying we need to cut sentences, the government in fact is creating the lax atmosphere leading to this situation.

One must also look at society's expectations of the police. On the one hand we want them to be robust. When they are inevitably you get all the complaints of human rights and stuff. One only has to look at the previous student protests when kettling was used. Society cannot have this both ways. If there are people out there intent on running amok then unfortunately all who are in the area will come under suspicion until proven otherwise.

One must also accept there are issues with how the legal system requires any one arrested to be dealt with. If a suspect is arrested then the officers involved will become involved with very time consuming custodial and evidence recording procedures. They won't be available to continue policing for many hours leaving their colleagues more thinly stretched. Is it any wonder therefore that sometimes the police in these situations didn't worry about the minor offences, especially if they are getting evidence they can use later in slow time, to wait for the most serious problems as they try and contain order.

People talk of using the army? I suggest not bringing them onto the streets, leave that to the police, but if there is now a problem with cell capacity, even in police stations or prisons, then use the army to create temporary holding areas, if need be putting the **** in tents. The could even be made to dig their own latrines.

And finally, what is happening now is not about any sort of social statement, it's about opportunism and organised theft. An awful lot of the looting is co-ordinated. The fires and stuff are often a distraction to get the authorities into a different place whilst just down the road the real value target is emptied This was the case in Croydon where the Reeves furniture shop was torched while a nearby Comet was emptied.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35286008)

I've just ploughed my way through this thread and someone suggested water cannons with smart water. I'd be more direct: Water cannons loaded with indellible day-glo PINK dye*.

Firstly it'll wreak all their designer stuff and secondly the next day you can arrest anybody who has any trace of pink on them.

Demonstrating is legal, riot and looting are not and the full force of the law MUST be bought to bear on the ****. Riot carries upto a 10 year tarrif so let's see some exemplary scentencing. As for the lack of prison places they had a solution for that in WW2: Make the prisoners build their own prison camp.

*Non poisonous and eco friendly naturally.