Re: smoking and the pub
 

If the landlords think that's what they need to do, you're buggered either way. If they did ban smoking and keep food, it looks like they think they'd be out of business anyway....:shrug:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The dangers of passive smoking causing or contributing to a serious illness is probably quite small but nevertheless still a risk and if not worth banning for that reason then because its plain unpleasant to anyone who doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t smoke. Manners, courtesy etc.

I remember reading something in the BMJ a while back that was controversially proposing that the dangers of passive smoking were not as high as first thought however, we mustn't let ourselves be deceived that it's OK or not worth bothering about.

The risk is not only lung cancer or heart disease either. Smoking causes/exacerbates numerous health problems.

It can cause oral cancer, throat cancer, CVA (stroke), hypertension (high blood pressure), AMI (heart attack), Ischaemic heart disease, Cardiac arrhythmias, Vascular disease (can lead to leg amputation), breathing problems like asthma, COPD, emphysema, bronchitis, chest infection, (within seconds of coming into contact with smoke the little villi on your trachea/bronchi are paralysed. These little epithelial †œhairsâ € � usually fibrillate gently to help bring mucus from your lungs back up the trachea for you to swallow ;). After smoking these do not work temporarily and your lungs get †œclogged upâ₠¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â� more than they should. This can lead to chest infection etc), Graves disease (causes hyperthyroidism), osteoporosis, premature delivery in pregnancy - even increased perinatal mortality and SIDS (cot death), lower baby weights, even abortion, increased risk of DVT (deep vein thrombosis), reduction in fertility etc That's the ones that I can bring to mind needless to say that there are many more reasons.

Why am I mentioning all these? Firstly I think itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s worth stating but I also think that there is a general delusion amongst smokers that smoking is OK and not particularly risky. They may well infer that they "know it's bad for me health" but I don't think that many really take it to heart (no pun intended ) It's true that some smokers get to the age of 90 but many many more die of a MI before they are 60. It's true that you could get run over by a bus but to be honest that is a much better way to die than from a smoking related disease such as emphysema or cancer.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There are 2 main pubs in my town and I am sure that if they banned smoking they would not go out of business. The people who go there have been doing so for years and I am sure that smoking isn't the main reason they go - it's also about drinking and socialising with their mates and the staff. I reckon it would give a few of them motivation to quit as well.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Any landlord who is not preparing for a ban - which will inevitably come - will go out of business. Adapt or die.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think most smokers are well aware of the dangers. But, 1. believe that it will never happen to them - self-denial. Most smokers start when any serious adverse effects are many years away, and 2. are addicted, so find it difficult to stop. And possibly 3. enjoy it and don't really care.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I also think a large number of smokers convince themselves that they will quit before it's too late. I know people who do that and I did as well for a while.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They very rarely go with us to a pub for a meal because I have no faith in air con systems that allegedly keep the smoke in smoky areas. If I go in a Wetherspoon it's usually just me and the missus, on a rare evening out - and at the moment, we have a breastfeeding baby as well, so evenings out are finished by about 10pm! The other thing about young children is that they cost rather a lot, so I for one am glad of JD's low-cost menu.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well, maybe they'll just make as much money as they can in the next 3/4 years, then go find another business where they're not bullied into what they do and don't allow on their on premises.
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Low cost = high crap. Turkey twizzlers - say no more. :sick:

Just to add, I have three children to consider, and I'm fully aware of the expense...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Somebody would make a mint if they set up a pub chain that welcomed (rather than barely tolerated) families AND served decent food. There's the occasional independent but no chains I'm aware of that do this. So there you go, gap in market, problem solved. End of debate (please ;) :) !)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If they consider this bullying then I fear for their chances of finding such a business...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Do you not consider being forced against your own will to do something to your own detriment bullying? There are plenty of businesses out there that do not have to make the choices that landlords are having to make at the moment. Have a little think... :dozey:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No I don't consider it bullying - we are all bound to the laws of the land and if a new law comes in that I don't like, I might moan and groan about it but it's not bullying IMO. I can't think of a single legitimate business that would be exempt from new health and safety laws that they may not like, but have to accept.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That's fine. But can you suggest to me any such business?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I've tried. Patches and everying but I just can't give it up ;)