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Sephiroth 31-01-2019 23:26
Re: Brexit
 
It's all very straightforward as regards this thread.

The Remainers want to overturn the Referendum result because of their beliefs. The voting majority disagreed with them and the guvmin is obliged to honour the Referendum result lest politics gets into even more trouble.

Some of the Remainers here are somewhat undemocratic and hide behind the "people's vote" notion as being a democratic step.

The Remainers in Parliament are an even bigger disgrace and they are bringing politics into disrepute.


An even bigger bigger disgrace is Corbyn. His party Manifesto pledged to honour the Referendum result; his MPs voted for A50 and the Withdrawal Act. But now, their only motive is to get into power and will not bind with the Conservatives to get this through. Corbyn makes impossible demands (Customs Union & Single Market - we might as well be remaining) which is what makes him so dishonest.

1andrew1 31-01-2019 23:31
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35981515)
At least you’ve stopped your countdown that was an hour out all along. Might be out by more if Jeremy Hunt is correct.
Looks like it's not just Jeremy Hunt who realises that an extension to Article 50 may be needed.
Quote:
Sajid Javid warned a Cabinet colleague that Brexit is likely to be delayed, a source told The Telegraph as it emerged that nearly a third of the Cabinet now believe Article 50 may have to be extended.
The Home Secretary is said to have raised concerns with another minister during the last fortnight that Theresa May will run out of time to pass legislation needed for Brexit.
One source claimed that during the conversation Mr Javid questioned the Prime
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...admit-article/

nomadking 01-02-2019 00:40
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35981501)
There was also responsibility on the behalf of those who gave loans out to people who couldn’t pay them back, and those who hid the bad loans in CDOs.
Those that gave out the loans didn't create the CDOs. All the CDOs did is play "pass the parcel" with the bad debts. It didn't create the debts in the first place. Then there were those who messed around gambling against the various CDOs.

jfman 01-02-2019 06:35
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35981519)
It's all very straightforward as regards this thread.

The Remainers want to overturn the Referendum result because of their beliefs. The voting majority disagreed with them and the guvmin is obliged to honour the Referendum result lest politics gets into even more trouble.

Some of the Remainers here are somewhat undemocratic and hide behind the "people's vote" notion as being a democratic step.

The Remainers in Parliament are an even bigger disgrace and they are bringing politics into disrepute.

An even bigger bigger disgrace is Corbyn. His party Manifesto pledged to honour the Referendum result; his MPs voted for A50 and the Withdrawal Act. But now, their only motive is to get into power and will not bind with the Conservatives to get this through. Corbyn makes impossible demands (Customs Union & Single Market - we might as well be remaining) which is what makes him so dishonest.
I’d have no real issue with “honouring the referendum result” had it actually been done in a coherent and controlled manner on our terms.

In practice deep down leavers know that they won by a narrow margin, based on lies and that in all probability they’d lose a second referendum. That’s why it was the race to trigger A50 as quickly as possible, and why some favour leaving on 29th March at all costs despite our lack of preparedness.

Honouring the result simply means to leave. It doesn’t stipulate how and it doesn’t stipulate when. Our delusional politicians have spent two years arguing with the EU to little or no avail, so the “solution” is to leave on 29th March despite never really believing it’d come to that until about two months ago.

Angua 01-02-2019 07:04
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35981534)
I’d have no real issue with “honouring the referendum result” had it actually been done in a coherent and controlled manner on our terms.

In practice deep down leavers know that they won by a narrow margin, based on lies and that in all probability they’d lose a second referendum. That’s why it was the race to trigger A50 as quickly as possible, and why some favour leaving on 29th March at all costs despite our lack of preparedness.

Honouring the result simply means to leave. It doesn’t stipulate how and it doesn’t stipulate when. Our delusional politicians have spent two years arguing with the EU to little or no avail, so the “solution” is to leave on 29th March despite never really believing it’d come to that until about two months ago.
The whole thing in a neat nutshell.

1andrew1 01-02-2019 07:26
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35981534)
I’d have no real issue with “honouring the referendum result” had it actually been done in a coherent and controlled manner on our terms.

In practice deep down leavers know that they won by a narrow margin, based on lies and that in all probability they’d lose a second referendum. That’s why it was the race to trigger A50 as quickly as possible, and why some favour leaving on 29th March at all costs despite our lack of preparedness.

Honouring the result simply means to leave. It doesn’t stipulate how and it doesn’t stipulate when. Our delusional politicians have spent two years arguing with the EU to little or no avail, so the “solution” is to leave on 29th March despite never really believing it’d come to that until about two months ago.
Exactly. I would also add that our politicians have got away with a lot of incompetence due to the strong economy.

Hugh 01-02-2019 07:32
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35981524)
Those that gave out the loans didn't create the CDOs. All the CDOs did is play "pass the parcel" with the bad debts. It didn't create the debts in the first place. Then there were those who messed around gambling against the various CDOs.
That’s why I differentiated between the loan-givers, and those who hid the bad loans in CDOs - two cheeks of the same arse (one set initiated the problem, the other hid the extent of the problem).

Those who played "pass the parcel" were the ones who brought the Financial System down, as they made it impossible to understand how bad the problem was, so panic ensued.

Sephiroth 01-02-2019 07:41
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35981534)

I’d have no real issue with “honouring the referendum result” had it actually been done in a coherent and controlled manner on our terms.

In practice deep down leavers know that they won by a narrow margin, based on lies and that in all probability they’d lose a second referendum. That’s why it was the race to trigger A50 as quickly as possible, and why some favour leaving on 29th March at all costs despite our lack of preparedness.

Honouring the result simply means to leave. It doesn’t stipulate how and it doesn’t stipulate when. Our delusional politicians have spent two years arguing with the EU to little or no avail, so the “solution” is to leave on 29th March despite never really believing it’d come to that until about two months ago.
Excellent analysis (except the narrow margin bit). Important thing is to leave and move on from there.

1andrew1 01-02-2019 07:48
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35981539)
Excellent analysis (except the narrow margin bit). Important thing is to leave and move on from there.
How would you better describe the margin of less than 4%?

Sephiroth 01-02-2019 08:11
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35981540)
How would you better describe the margin of less than 4%?
I've already explained that in terms of democracy. A margin of 1 vote in Parliament (.02%) would put something into law and that would be accepted. The principles of democracy should be treated consistently.

jfman 01-02-2019 08:47
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35981542)
I've already explained that in terms of democracy. A margin of 1 vote in Parliament (.02%) would put something into law and that would be accepted. The principles of democracy should be treated consistently.
Nobody is disputing that in a democratic vote the margin to win is by one vote. A narrow win (0.02%) is just as valid a win on the day as a resounding win (80-20%).

I’d say where less than 1 in 25 people need to change their mind in a two option scenario that’s quite narrow. If you need 12 out of 25 people to change their mind for the opposite result then I’d say that’s pretty resounding.

Sephiroth 01-02-2019 09:13
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35981550)
Nobody is disputing that in a democratic vote the margin to win is by one vote. A narrow win (0.02%) is just as valid a win on the day as a resounding win (80-20%).

I’d say where less than 1 in 25 people need to change their mind in a two option scenario that’s quite narrow. If you need 12 out of 25 people to change their mind for the opposite result then I’d say that’s pretty resounding.
I think you are contradicting yourself. In a Parliamentary vote where there is a 1 vote margin, only 1 person needs to change their mind. In the case of the Referendum, 1 million minds would need to change.

Your numbers above are arbitrary; that's why a majority of 1 is the accepted democratic approach - except, it seems, by some Remainers.

Damien 01-02-2019 09:13
Re: Brexit
 
Today the EU-Japan trade deal comes into effect making it the biggest free trading block in the world: https://www.ft.com/content/a72d4672-...6-5db4543da632


Quote:
With the US and China remaining locked in a dispute over tariffs, European and Japanese consumers have begun reaping the benefits of the largest bilateral trade deal.

The pact sweeps away almost all tariffs between economies representing close to 30 per cent of global gross domestic product. In Tokyo the impact will be immediate: the price of French and Italian wines at Meidi-ya supermarket will fall by 10 per cent or more on Friday, when the agreement comes into force.

The trade deal, dubbed “cars for cheese” because of business opportunities for Japanese carmakers and EU farmers, means European exporters alone will save around €1bn in duties a year. As well as tariffs being removed, regulatory barriers to trade will be smoothed away and markets in public procurement opened up.

Mr K 01-02-2019 09:19
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35981557)
Today the EU-Japan trade deal comes into effect making it the biggest free trading block in the world: https://www.ft.com/content/a72d4672-...6-5db4543da632
Well that's good news, much trade can we get with Japan before the end of next month !

I declare this country officially mad......

Damien 01-02-2019 09:39
Re: Brexit
 
If we have no deal from next month we're going to lose tariff-free trade with:
  • Japan (3rd largest economy in the world)
  • Germany (4th largest economy in the world)
  • France (6th largest economy in the world)

And as for 'they need us more than we need them' two months before we leave they've got a trade deal with an economy larger than ours.

---------- Post added at 09:39 ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 ----------

Non-paywall link: https://news.sky.com/story/uk-might-...-days-11624240


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