Re: Brexit
 

They've given us their solution. It's up to us to propose a workable alternative.

Re: Brexit
 

You're missing my point yet again and tbh i don't have time to explain yet again to those that refuse to listen.

Re: Brexit
 

Well you're not making it very well then are you?

Re: Brexit
 

The Greek bailout did not protect the sanctity of the EU, if by that you mean the smooth operation of its various rules and procedures by adherence to laws and treaties. It was explicitly forbidden, but they did it anyway, because it served a purpose which was clearly held to be more important - the restoration of the Greek economy to a healthy, functioning state.

Likewise, a solution to the requirement for an open border on the island of Ireland may not protect the sanctity of the EU in strict terms, but I suspect when it comes to it the healthy functioning of the economy of a member state, in this case Ireland, will be weighed and judged to be more important.

Re: Brexit
 

Sure but that does seem quite hard. Do we know of any open borders across zones that do not have a customs union? At least for economies the size of ours?

It seems at the very least it's difficult which is what the backstop is about. Until we solve that the backstop remains which is why a time limited version seems to destroy the point of it.

But changing the question why is the backstop so horrible anyway? If it is this easy then the deal will be sorted in the transition period. Thus making the backstop redundant. If it is difficult then we'll be a customs union for goods with our closet and biggest trading partner who also happen to be one of the biggest, soon to be the biggest, trading block in the world. Because of the distance and the size of the economies it's unlikely we'll ever have a trading destination that exceeds the EU in our lifetimes. At least not for physical goods.

In all the things that people wanted from Brexit May's agreement delivers nearly all of it and the one part it doesn't could be sorted later. It's there ready to go having been agreed with the EU and the backstop for the whole of the UK was a concession to us.

Re: Brexit
 

Except the consequences are for us, the ones who had this forced on us. The ones who vocally call for this are well insulated from the results so they can risk all.

Re: Brexit
 

Wait, so the UK had no say in the Withdrawal Agreement, it's purely what the EU has offered us? I was under the impression that this was a mutually agreed text between the government and the EU that we now want to change

Re: Brexit
 

Really? You poor little thing. I have an idea you are more well insulated than I or many others.

Don't forget all of us who voted leave were the uneducated working underclass or has that theory now been dismissed?

Re: Brexit
 

Distortion of what was actually reported - polls showed that voters who voted Brexit were more likely to be working class or not have attended Higher Education.

Re: Brexit
 

Don't forget the retired underclass,not sure what insulation we have.
I just want out.

Re: Brexit
 

There's already a border between the North and South for a whole range of issues. We need a little invention and will, pretty sure "will" being the major factor.

Well they advised the backstop was purely insurance and neither side wanted to use it or thought that they would use it. So why not back yourself to sort it out and remove it.

exactly mu earlier point

but defacto still in the EU - unable to strike trade deals, subject to the ECJ and not brexit..

I agree, the EU saw it as concession, but we see it as potential shackles.

As you say it's a 2year period, both side should commit to sorting it within that period one way or the other.

Re: Brexit
 

Oh well.

Looks like the poor are going to be leading the rich for a change then :) ChopChop :D

Re: Brexit
 

If all you can do is patronise then you have already lost the argument :) Let's stick to the debate shall we?

Re: Brexit
 

If the EU can be certain of anything it’s that we will blink if they do not. There’s no Parliamentary will for no deal, no adequate preparations made and nobody will want the blame for it.

To make concessions now would only embolden elements of the Conservative Party into demanding more. We have shown no coherent strategy for two years, and there’s no indication we can for two months.

Re: Brexit
 

One thing to remember is that it was the UK who devised the backstop as a solution to the Irish border problem. So now we're trying to backtrack on an offer we made. Hmm. Can't see that working too well.