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-   -   Ban the burkha ? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33660540)

Xaccers 15-07-2010 16:00
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35056784)
Oh no, he's doing the little old ladies with scarfs on again :D
Well Arthur is doing the "if your face is covered you're going to KILL EVERYONE!!!!!!!" again.

Gary L 15-07-2010 16:42
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 35056787)
Well Arthur is doing the "if your face is covered you're going to KILL EVERYONE!!!!!!!" again.
Naughty Arthur. exaggerating about people KILLING everyone :erm: :)

papa smurf 17-07-2010 09:33
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Champion of UK burka ban declares war on veil-wearing constituents

A Conservative MP says he will refuse to hold meetings with Muslim women wearing full Islamic dress at his constituency surgery unless they lift their face veil.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-2028669.html

Kymmy 17-07-2010 09:37
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 35056778)
That's on private property though. It's already been made clear that shops and other businesses can legally refuse entry to anyone not willing to show their face.
Should a biker be fined because they walked from their front door down the street to their bike with their helmet on?
If they are not near/going to/from their bike then I don't see the difference..
Most who wear a crash hemlet for any other non-legit purpose is probably upto no good.

The difference here though is that someone wearing a crash helmet wandering down the high street is more likely to be viewed with suspicion..

Xaccers 17-07-2010 09:45
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35057584)
If they are not near/going to/from their bike then I don't see the difference..
Most who wear a crash hemlet for any other non-legit purpose is probably upto no good.

The difference here though is that someone wearing a crash helmet wandering down the high street is more likely to be viewed with suspicion..
So you've never had to park your bike a coupled of doors down and on a cold day put your helmet on as you left the house?
Or got off your bike just to get some cash out of an ouside ATM without taking your helmet off? That happens loads outside Asda over here.
Do you believe that doing the above should be illegal?

Peter_ 17-07-2010 09:46
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 35056718)
Are you for banning crash helmets being worn more than 10cm from a motorbike?
Or people covering their faces with a scarf on a cold winter's day?
Ban sunglasses and beards too would you?

All those things are more common and more likely to be used by criminals, so shouldn't they be banned too?
Any person walking down a high street wearing a full face motorcycle helmet would be viewed by the majority of people as highly suspect and could lead to that person being stopped and questioned by a Police Officer and rightly so.

your other examples do not really prevent facial recognition software from scanning the face but a helmet does and so does a burka.

Xaccers 17-07-2010 10:00
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35057591)
Any person walking down a high street wearing a full face motorcycle helmet would be viewed by the majority of people as highly suspect and could lead to that person being stopped and questioned by a Police Officer and rightly so.

your other examples do not really prevent facial recognition software from scanning the face but a helmet does and so does a burka.
Um, what facial recognition software is scanning our streets?

How is covering your face with a beard and dark sunglasses, or a scarf any different to a veil?

As I've said, we have many bikers who don't bother taking their helmets off when going to some outside ATMs for cash, and it causes no problems. Why should it be made illegal?

Gary L 17-07-2010 10:06
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
With the veil comes a cloak. the whole lot is a disguise.
you can look at it in all different ways. someone who wears just a veil, or someone who wears a chicken outfit including the head.

anybody could be inside the chicken outfit.

Peter_ 17-07-2010 10:08
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 35057599)
Um, what facial recognition software is scanning our streets?

How is covering your face with a beard and dark sunglasses, or a scarf any different to a veil?

As I've said, we have many bikers who don't bother taking their helmets off when going to some outside ATMs for cash, and it causes no problems. Why should it be made illegal?
A burka and a full face helmet hides the persons identity but a motorcyclist will remove their helmet in public and not wear them into a shop or a bank as they will be requested to remove it.

A person wearing a burka can enter a shop or a bank without removing it, in a place such as a bank if they should have to remove the burka in order to be served and this can be done in a private room away from the general public.

With the amount of cameras now in use in this country we cannot know how any are being used for covert surveillance and any that are would be run through facial recognition software.

Xaccers 17-07-2010 10:16
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35057608)
A burka and a full face helmet hides the persons identity but a motorcyclist will remove their helmet in public and not wear them into a shop or a bank as they will be requested to remove it.

A person wearing a burka can enter a shop or a bank without removing it, in a place such as a bank if they should have to remove the burka in order to be served and this can be done in a private room away from the general public.
A bank or shop can refuse to allow in anyone covering their face with anything.
As I've said, there are many situations where bikers don't bother removing their helmets in public because 1) they're in public 2) there's no need.

Quote:
With the amount of cameras now in use in this country we cannot know how any are being used for covert surveillance and any that are would be run through facial recognition software.
Careful, they may have just read that you know that! They're after you! Grab the kids and run for the hills! Oh bugger, I've told them where you'll be, sorry!
I'd offer you some dark glasses and a false beard, or a scarf to cover your face, but apparently their recognition software can see through that so you'd best buy a veil, it's the same as a scarf covering your face, but it foils the software somehow :D

Peter_ 17-07-2010 10:39
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 35057611)



Careful, they may have just read that you know that! They're after you! Grab the kids and run for the hills! Oh bugger, I've told them where you'll be, sorry!
I'd offer you some dark glasses and a false beard, or a scarf to cover your face, but apparently their recognition software can see through that so you'd best buy a veil, it's the same as a scarf covering your face, but it foils the software somehow :D
Surveillance cameras do not bother me as nowadays they are a fact of life, we may be the most watched country in the world but if you have nothing to hide then who really cares.

Escapee 17-07-2010 11:02
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
I believe the big difference between a motorcycle helmet and burkha is fear of the 'R' word.

A shop would have no problem asking a person wearing a motorcycle helmet to remove it, and the wearer will have no argument it he disagrees. The burkha wearer however has the racist card or 'I'm being persecuted' card to play.

I couldn't see the human rights or hand wringing brigade giving toss about a motorcyclist being asked to remove his helmet, but a burkha wearer would be a great cause for them to champion.

I always remove my helmet at the petrol station, even my flip front one. I believe it's a matter of courtesy.

Kymmy 17-07-2010 11:20
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 35057589)
So you've never had to park your bike a coupled of doors down and on a cold day put your helmet on as you left the house?
Or got off your bike just to get some cash out of an ouside ATM without taking your helmet off? That happens loads outside Asda over here.
Do you believe that doing the above should be illegal?
As I said I use a flip helmet, when I'm off the bike my face is fully visible ;)

What I am saying is that there are a lot of circumstances in which wearing a helmet just isn't suitable with a lot of them being in public areas.. I don't see any reason as to why there just couldn't be a blanket ban on covering up your full face in public unless you're following another law (for example riding a bike with a helmet) If the biker isn;t riding then I see no reason to leave the helmet on, though saying that a lot of couriers used to leave their helmet on in the rain purely to keep their heads dry ;)

There is though one hell of a difference between stepping out of your house and covering your face for the explicit reason of simple covering your face than there is in stepping out in a full face helmet with the intent of riding a bike within the current laws.. One is for protection, the other is for some archaic religious misinterpretation and I'm extremely suprised that you're comparing the two..

martyh 17-07-2010 12:02
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
It would appear that some muslims are turning away from the Bhurka aswell there seems to be a growing movement against the bhurka

sky link

Quote:
One of those who thinks the burka should be outlawed is the chairman of the Muslim Educational Centre in Oxford.
"We're not telling these women what they can wear. We're telling them the only thing they should do is uncover their faces," said imam Dr Taj Hargey.
"I think this notion that somehow this is a religious symbol, a Koranic requirement, is nonsense."
and this makes interesting reading

Quote:
Now that a French Parliamentary Commission has recommended the banning of face veiling (burqah and niqab) in public, any similar official restriction in the UK will be counterproductive and contrary to Britain’s liberal heritage. What will be more effective is nationwide Muslim-led opposition to this foreign fad and non-Islamic tendency. MECO has taken the lead in this pioneering anti-Burqa and Niqab Initiative (ABNI). It will challenge the proponents of face screening by exposing the theological falsehoods of imported Wahhabi-Salafi ideology that has unfortunately conditioned many British Muslims to blindly accept that face masking is an Islamic obligation, when it is at best an archaic social practice of particularly primitive places.
While the Sublime Qur’an requires men and women to be modestly dressed, there is nothing in Islam’s transcendent text mandating total female face concealment. That ancient Byzantine and Persian custom was absorbed by subsequent Muslim society not on the basis of original divine directives but through later human interpretations. Although these opinions were based on ensuing prophetic reports (hadith) and exclusively masculine edicts, they cannot override the sacred Qur’anic scripture, which emphatically does not necessitate women to tuck away their faces in public.
link

the highlighted statement is what i find most interesting ,it seems to be the way forward to me rather than a goverment forced ban

nomadking 17-07-2010 12:31
Re: Ban the burkha ?
 
Countries like Syria, Tunisia and Turkey seem to have no problems imposing restrictions, so why should anywhere else?


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