Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Page 47 of 948

« First

147

547

Last »

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)

- Virgin Media Internet Service (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=12)

- - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

lucevans

07-03-2008 09:58

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34502106)

Here's a point. They say they reject numbers over 3 digits. That is a hell of a lot of cvs security numbers they will have from the back of credit cards. :shocked:

I agree - even if you only ever enter your cvs number on an https page (which I always check before typing anything to do with my credit cards) we've only got their word for it that they're not analyzing encrypted pages...

Sirius

07-03-2008 10:08

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucevans (Post 34502109)

On to disconnects as i type.

none	07-03-2008 10:14

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucevans (Post 34502109)

And following on from that, how will Phorm know that a string of data is longer than 3 digits unless it has first viewed it (albeit for a nano second) and then subsequently disguarded it.

http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=60&tstart=0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter N

Phorm have claimed that they will not collect "sensitive areas like adult or medical data".

The only ways for them to know that I have accessed a site for a particular type of data is for them to either view that data in breach of the Data Protection Act or make an assumption based on their opinion of my personal, private and legally protected browsing habits.

Could the moderators explain how it is possible for Phorm to know what sort of data I am going to access without seeing it?

BT users are now starting to let fly with simple questions and so far no answers have been given.

On a side note, the e-petition has already received over 1300 signatures in a little over two days - http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/

I think perhaps certain people have vastly underestimated how seriously UK citizens value their privacy, especially online.

ahardie

07-03-2008 10:21

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Just a quick question. If people do cancel VM, who are they going to change to? I'm sure I read that there is no point changing over to asdl because they all use the BT network. Is this true? Sounds unlikely to me.

Sirius

07-03-2008 10:32

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardie (Post 34502124)

Just a quick question. If people do cancel VM, who are they going to change to? I'm sure I read that there is no point changing over to adsl because they all use the BT network. Is this true? Sounds unlikely to me.

I have just got off the phone to disconnections having had my notes updated to include my intention to leave if this is a OPT OUT not a OPT IN.

I also made them include that i expressly do not give them permission to sell, Give, Pass any information derived from my surfing habit by the use of Deep Packet Inspection of my data to phorm or they agents or customers or to Virgin Media. I also stated that i do not give Virgin Media permission to carry out Deep Packet Inspection of my data passing between myself and VM. I also stated that should they go ahead and pass any of my surfing habits or information to Phorm that i will sue them for failing to inform me first and for failing to protect my private data.

If i move it will be

BT for the phone.

Sky HD for my TV

Be Unlimited for my Broadband. (they are LLU so don't use BT's backbone.)

none	07-03-2008 10:48

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahardie (Post 34502124)

Yup BE also for me.

Just in case you may have missed it, Phorm's CEO KentErtugrul hosted a public question and answer session last tonight on the Phorm system and how it works. You will find an unedited transcript of the session here - http://www.badphorm.co.uk/page.php?10

makes for very interesting reading. There are many parts I could comment on, but two parts in particular stood out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KentErtugrul

If you look at your browser right now, you will see that perhaps hundreds of cookies have traked your activity online. You never gave permission for any of that, they all store where you have been and shutting off cookies makes the internet basically unusable. Wold it not be better to have something far more useful from an advertiser's perspective, which stores no data at all as to browsing history and for the first time gives users a clear and readily accessible on / off switch?

Feel like your having your intelligence insulted yet?

how about this instead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksg/KentErtugrul

Ksg: How does Phorm advantage us as a user?
KentErtugrul: Good question with several answers. Webwise brings the following benefits to users:

1) Reduces the amount of irrelevant advertising which you see as you browse
2) Long term, reduces the amount of advertising which you see altogether
3) Dramatically enhances the landscape of online privacy by introduding, for the first time, a system which is completely anonymous, keeps no record of where you ahev been or what you have searched for and gives you a clear and transparent on/ off switch
4) Makes many more of the websites which you visit much more profitable, making the internet a more vibrant, interesting and relevant place to be
5) Protects you from online fraud without having to download software, switch it on or update it. Remember that the most likely victims of phishing attacks are the least likely to to have taken the necessary steps to protect themselves
6) Allows ISPs to give you a better quality internet
7) Creates a "Google while browsing" web experience
8) Creates many other additional opportunities which we will be presenting in the future, each of which is very beneficial and each of which, like webwise, will always be an open choice on the part of users as to whether or not to embrace

Take note of point 8 especially "Creates many other additional opportunities which we will be presenting in the future". Meaning once our system is in place, we may at any time change, amend or introduce added 'functionality' to Phorm as we see fit. That I suspect is the true nature of Phorm.

Mick	07-03-2008 10:52

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34502106)

Here's a point. They say they reject numbers over 3 digits. That is a hell of a lot of cvs security numbers they will have from the back of credit cards. :shocked:

If that is the case then how are they going to get the 16 digit card number from the card then? Surely this will be read before the CVS will.

brundles

07-03-2008 10:56

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

How on earth does he think that long term it will reduce the amount of advertising we get shovelled down our throttled connection?

Sirius

07-03-2008 11:00

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34502143)

If that is the case then how are they going to get the 16 digit card number from the card then? Surely this will be read before the CVS will.

The CVS number is generally imputed in a different field on a form or web page. If that 3 digit number is sent as 3 digits then they WILL have it.

Mick	07-03-2008 11:03

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34502150)

The CVS number is generally imputed in a different field on a form or web page. If that 3 digit number is sent as 3 digits then they WILL have it.

It is usually after the card number though not before it on most web forms when paying by credit card. But even so...

I thought they couldn't read or intercept encrypted data anyway. Which this data will be.

A CVS is useless without the full 16 digit card number. The two sets of 4 digits for the start and expiry date.

Florence

07-03-2008 11:36

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34502151)

After watching the video a few times he is very uneasy when answering certain questions, to me this is where he is holding back on the truth. If they can supply such information to try and trick people into using this then you canot trust anything they do. It is also so easy to update scripts withing a package without the EU knowing and before long they have your whole life details from bank to medical..

As for where I would go if this was implemented, some express a fear of the BT network this needs to be looked at as it stands now.

BT is split into more than one company.

BT openreach.

Deals with faults fitting new lines and such the Engineers side.

BT Wholesale.

Supplies BB to other companies.

BT Retail.

This is where phorm is supposed to be beta tested.

I am going to email Ben to ask him if there is any chance that phorm will be used on the BT wholesale side aswell as the retail.

Shaun

07-03-2008 12:36

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech team (Post 34501451)

Hi All,

I'm from the tech team at phorm and wanted to point you in the direction of a couple of articles that have come out that might help to clarify some of the issues that have come up on the boards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7280791.stm

You'll see that the beeb is also a little confused over the role Simon Davies (Director of Privacy Intl and MD of 80/20 Thinking) played in conducting our Privacy Impact Assessment which I have tried to clarify on another board, Political Penguin:

http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/b...#comment-40910

and to be doubly doubly clear: Simon Davies as a privacy consultant conducted the PIA wearing his 80/20 hat and with his fellow colleague at the LSE.

Seems your CEO is confused about PIs involvement too:

Quote:

Jim_Murray: Further, how do you respond to the statement by Professor Anderson (Cambridge University) in a This is Money article that 'if you care about yourprivacy, do not use BT, Virgin or Talk Talk'?

KentErtugrul: I believe that given the chance to fully understand our technology, Professor Anderson will reach the same conclusion as Privacy International, Ernst and Young and any number of key privacy stakeholders,

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/page.php?10

No wonder the Beeb and consumers are confused if you own CEO has no idea what the guys involvement is. :rolleyes:

So do PI endorse your product or not?

I've been open minded about this product until I found out my ISP can't switch it off AND I've spent some time reading your PR initiative where different answers are given by different people. :erm:

---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

Quote:

Dephormation.org.uk: Will the 'opt out' cookie expire? Why? After what time period? If I flush my cookies, will I need to 'opt-out' again?

MBurgess: The opt-out cookie expires after two years. Why? Two years is a LONG TIME on the Internet! Seriously though, we would consider extending the lifetime if you think it's a big issue ...

Yes, if you delete your cookies, you would need to opt out again, unless you block cookies from webwise.net, in which case you will be opted out permanently.

I can see a market for a small program that will block their cookie across browsers. That is if they're telling the truth. If they really want people to be able to opt out (and not opt out then fall through the net when the cookie is lost) then perhaps an open source program from them would be an idea. :erm:

Florence

07-03-2008 13:10

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

As all members are aware I have no way of knowing what IP or email details this Phorm tech used to join this forum but working from details I have aquired I noticed a link with one Phorm rep and a company which in their words.

Quote:

Corporate Communications & Reputation Management

Citigate Dewe Rogerson partners with its clients with the core belief that public relations must support business strategy. We exist to help manage and protect the reputations and business product portfolios of our clients. We deliver campaigns with huge business impact. We develop reputation management programmes and sophisticated corporate communications plans powered by unrivalled sector knowledge, intelligent use of knowledge and clear industry insights.

From another section same website.

Launching Products and Services

Citigate Dewe Rogerson has a wealth of experience in supporting the marketing of new products and services for clients of all sizes across all industry sectors. We understand the important role that public relations plays in launching a new offering and how it can give a product or service the ‘edge’ over the competition. Regardless of whether your audience is business or consumer, we will develop a creative public relations campaign that achieves maximum media exposure.

Looks like they are being paid to help the general British public accept this phorm which I am totaly against.

Toto	07-03-2008 13:14

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34502150)

The CVS number is generally imputed in a different field on a form or web page. If that 3 digit number is sent as 3 digits then they WILL have it.

Actually no. No Phorm data is collected from pages served over HTTPS. If any user is daft enough to enter financial data over a standard port 80 connection, they really ought not to be using the Internet.

Florence

07-03-2008 13:24

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34502238)

Toto we only have their word for this and this is a companyn with a history that isn't what I would trust my life with. Going of their past record would rather continue to protect my privacy my way.

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:29.

Page 47 of 948

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page