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-   -   Britain outside the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709659)

1andrew1 20-11-2022 15:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
No surprise the waters are being tested on this - you can't fight the gravity of trade rules, as I was fond of reminding Old Boy.
Quote:
Britain mulls Swiss-style ties with Brussels

The government believes EU relations are thawing and could lead to ‘frictionless’ trade

Senior government figures are planning to put Britain on the path towards a Swiss-style relationship with the European Union.

The move, intended to forge closer economic ties, is likely to infuriate hardline Conservative Brexiteers.

Jeremy Hunt, the chancellor, last week signalled that Rishi Sunak’s administration intends to break from the approach adopted by Boris Johnson and remove the vast majority of trade barriers with the bloc.

In private, senior government sources have suggested that pursuing frictionless trade requires moving towards a Swiss-style relationship over the next decade. However, they insist this would not extend to a return to freedom of movement.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...sels-nr0f7fw2k (paywall)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...c38de3be9380e7 (no paywall)

nomadking 20-11-2022 15:26
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140217)
You can't really compare GDP between different countries, with different methods of measuring it. EG How do you compare GDP in Healthcare and Education with the US?

1andrew1 20-11-2022 15:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36140474)
You can't really compare GDP between different countries, with different methods of measuring it. EG How do you compare GDP in Healthcare and Education with the US?
He's not comparing GDP levels between countries though.

TheDaddy 20-11-2022 16:19
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140469)
No surprise the waters are being tested on this - you can't fight the gravity of trade rules, as I was fond of reminding Old Boy.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...sels-nr0f7fw2k (paywall)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...c38de3be9380e7 (no paywall)
Switzerland have the best deal of anyone, due mainly to a referendum on joining that failed by 0.2% iirc, the EU thought it simply a matter of time before they joined. If their deal had been on the table in 2016 I'd have voted leave and if we get similar now it'd make this car crash worth it imo

Sephiroth 20-11-2022 18:02
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140469)
No surprise the waters are being tested on this - you can't fight the gravity of trade rules, as I was fond of reminding Old Boy.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...sels-nr0f7fw2k (paywall)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...c38de3be9380e7 (no paywall)

That’s an interesting one. The Swiss model is so complex and, by the way, is an a-la-carte agreement between the two entities. The hardliners won’t want to see a penny paid into the EU nor the applicability of EU law to the treaties elements.

I can see economic merit in easing trade, but the price to be paid will horrify some people. It would need putting to a referendum.

1andrew1 20-11-2022 18:19
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36140492)

That’s an interesting one. The Swiss model is so complex and, by the way, is an a-la-carte agreement between the two entities. The hardliners won’t want to see a penny paid into the EU nor the applicability of EU law to the treaties elements.

I can see economic merit in easing trade, but the price to be paid will horrify some people. It would need putting to a referendum.
I don't think that it would need a referendum, we're not Switzerland! Even Daniel Hanan said we would stay in the Single Market and the ideas being floated don't envisage that.

In fact, Farage says Switzerland's model was the inspiration for Brexit a couple of years ago.

Quote:
Nigel Farage, head of the UK’s Brexit party, says Switzerland was an “inspiration” for the United Kingdom on leaving the European Union.

“Switzerland has managed to maintain its sovereignty and independence and reach bilateral agreements with the EU,” he said in an interviewExternal link with Swiss television RTS. “You managed to do it without being part of the EU, so did Norway.”

Farage was speaking at the European parliament as the UK prepares to leave the European Union on January 31. Farage, although his party did not win any seats in the last UK election, has been one of the key people behind the Brexit campaign.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politic...rage-/45499628

Sephiroth 20-11-2022 20:17
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140494)
I don't think that it would need a referendum, we're not Switzerland! Even Daniel Hanan said we would stay in the Single Market and the ideas being floated don't envisage that.

In fact, Farage says Switzerland's model was the inspiration for Brexit a couple of years ago.


https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politic...rage-/45499628
Your answer doesn't discuss the complexity and the degree of acquiescence to the ECJ that goes with the Swiss model. Also "Free Movement" is part of the Swiss deal with the EU.

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/switzerla...rland_en?s=180

richard-john56 20-11-2022 22:09
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I wish Farage would go and live in Switzerland that would be inspiration enough,

Damien 20-11-2022 22:26
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
If they're not going to try for closer regulatory ties with the EU then at least start delivering on proper trade deals that actually make a difference rather than these small gimmicks Truss got.

If you don't build something else in place of the EU then Brexit looks like a destructive project.

Pierre 20-11-2022 23:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36140516)
Brexit looks like a destructive project.
I can’t believe that after all this time that people still think of Brexit in terms of economics etc.

Brexit, to most of the so called thick racist northerners that got it over the line was an issue of being governed by those that were accountable.

Certain global issues have made the situation less good.

But anyone thinking rejoining the EU is an option are crazy, and any party with that option in a manifesto would not get out the starting gate.

Try to get there by stealth and you may get so far, but you’ll be found out.

1andrew1 20-11-2022 23:46
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36140520)
Try to get there by stealth and you may get so far, but you’ll be found out.
I think we're in tin foil hat territory if we imagine that this is part of some long-term plan by Brexiters like Hunt and Sunak to rejoin the EU!

Most likely, they're trying to gauge public opinion and to see if the ERG's red lines have moved following the economic situation the UK is in.

mrmistoffelees 21-11-2022 08:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36140520)
I can’t believe that after all this time that people still think of Brexit in terms of economics etc.

Brexit, to most of the so called thick racist northerners that got it over the line was an issue of being governed by those that were accountable.

Certain global issues have made the situation less good.

But anyone thinking rejoining the EU is an option are crazy, and any party with that option in a manifesto would not get out the starting gate.

Try to get there by stealth and you may get so far, but you’ll be found out.
Living in the north it wasn’t accountability that was the key selling point that was campaigned on, it was controlled immigration.

1andrew1 21-11-2022 12:13
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Tony Danker, the CBI director general, has joined the many Tory Brexiters who reacted with alarm to yesterday’s story in saying that the government should not be aiming for a Swiss-style deal. He told the Today programme this morning:

I’m a bit puzzled about the whole Swiss thing. It took them about 40 years to get to the Swiss arrangement. Currently, we’re not even implementing Boris’s deal. Let’s implement Boris’s Brexit deal, that still has some growth in it, by the way, that’s all come to a freeze, and let’s forget the discussion about Switzerland for now.

Asked if a Swiss-style Brexit deal would be a betrayal of Brexit, Danker replied:

"All I want to do is implement Boris’s deal. Currently we’re not implementing Boris’s deal. We’ve got we’ve got an impasse because of the Northern Ireland protocol. There’s lots of freezing of our science relationships, of our recognition of our qualifications, of easier travel across Europe. Those things will give us some growth. But it needs the Europeans and the British government to get round the table and solve the protocol.

There’s a landing zone there. If we fulfil the agreement on the protocol, we’ll start to open up some of those other other economic benefits from Boris’s trade deal."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...08958e0f819abe

Sephiroth 21-11-2022 12:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If only it were that easy to fix the Northern Ireland thing. The DUP is the problem as we all know - and they opposed the Good Friday Agreement at the time. And they still sort of hate the Nats.

There's no hard line the Guvmin can take with the DUP for fear of loyalist terrorism. There's no incentive for the Guvmin to give ground to the EU because it plays into the Nats' hands and the UK will eventually lose NI - sooner rather than later.

So, the Guvmin is up shit creek. As a bystander, the choice I have is to (a) support interpretation of the NI protocol that NI is part of the UK Customs regime and that we should be free to supply supermarkets without more than one sheet of customs paper; (b) to let the ECJ run its writ in NI as regards Single Market whilst agreeing with the EU to their light touch customs proposals.

I now favour (b) just to get things done. Whether or not Sunak has the cahunas to get on with that I can't judge at this stage - he might have. Something must give because the DUP are *******s and need to be sidelined.

1andrew1 21-11-2022 18:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36140541)

If only it were that easy to fix the Northern Ireland thing. The DUP is the problem as we all know - and they opposed the Good Friday Agreement at the time. And they still sort of hate the Nats.

There's no hard line the Guvmin can take with the DUP for fear of loyalist terrorism. There's no incentive for the Guvmin to give ground to the EU because it plays into the Nats' hands and the UK will eventually lose NI - sooner rather than later.

So, the Guvmin is up shit creek. As a bystander, the choice I have is to (a) support interpretation of the NI protocol that NI is part of the UK Customs regime and that we should be free to supply supermarkets without more than one sheet of customs paper; (b) to let the ECJ run its writ in NI as regards Single Market whilst agreeing with the EU to their light touch customs proposals.

I now favour (b) just to get things done. Whether or not Sunak has the cahunas to get on with that I can't judge at this stage - he might have. Something must give because the DUP are *******s and need to be sidelined.
Surely the government don't need the DUP now they have a 70+ seat majority?

Meanwhile, business (and government tax revenues) continue to suffer from Brexit. The boss of Britain's largest airports group, Charlie Cornish, spells it out.

Quote:
Speaking at the Airlines 2022 conference in London, Cornish said: “There’s no doubt that Brexit has damaged the UK economy, 99% of leading economists would tell you that. You just have to look at the rate of growth now, and that’s significant.”

He added: “If that carries on, the UK’s ability to be competitive will get eroded every single year. We do need the UK government to look at how to actually get a sensible economic growth plan back, with aviation at the centre of that.”

Cornish said that while other factors such as Covid had structurally altered the labour force, the problems were exacerbated by fewer Europeans coming back into the UK. “That does damage the UK aviation sector’s ability to recruit workforce at scale and at pace,” he said. “Pre-Brexit, that problem was never there.”

He added: “Aviation is wholly linked to GDP. We have to have an open conversation: how are we going to solve the Brexit-related disruption? If you look at the economic recovery in the EU, they’re much further ahead of the UK. Nobody’s going to be able to say that’s not due to Brexit.”

Willie Walsh, the head of global airlines body Iata and former boss of the British Airways owner IAG, said there were clear indicators that UK aviation was recovering more slowly than Europe’s.

“It’s damaged the UK, from everything I’ve seen,” he said. “ I haven’t heard any politician articulate any benefit, and don’t see any Brexit benefit for aviation. If you can’t acknowledge that there’s a negative, they’re not going to be able to fix it.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...15ee9ba644b667

Sephiroth 21-11-2022 19:50
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140549)
Surely the government don't need the DUP now they have a 70+ seat majority?

<SNIP>

As I said, the loyalist terrorists might organise themselves. The Guvmin have better intelligence on this than you or I.

1andrew1 22-11-2022 18:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36140553)

As I said, the loyalist terrorists might organise themselves. The Guvmin have better intelligence on this than you or I.
Hopefully, HMG will not give into blackmail too easily.

Meanwhile, back in the Commons, more comedy gold!

Quote:
Top Tory boasts Brexit is delivering 'enormous' benefits - then can't name a single one

Andrew Griffith came unstuck at the climax of a Commons speech defending the Autumn Statement, after Chancellor Jeremy Hunt admitted there were “trade barriers” with the EU.

The Treasury minister boasted: "Brexit can deliver and is already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities."

SNP MP Peter Grant asked: “Could the minister just tell my constituents one thing that is a definite benefit, even to 20% of the people in my constituency, from Brexit?

“Something they would notice the difference with?"

Mr Griffith hastily replied: “Well, I am afraid we have not enough time left to share all of the benefits that we are delivering for his constituents."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...ering-28552808

ianch99 22-11-2022 18:52
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36140520)
I can’t believe that after all this time that people still think of Brexit in terms of economics etc.

Brexit, to most of the so called thick racist northerners that got it over the line was an issue of being governed by those that were accountable.

Certain global issues have made the situation less good.

But anyone thinking rejoining the EU is an option are crazy, and any party with that option in a manifesto would not get out the starting gate.

Try to get there by stealth and you may get so far, but you’ll be found out.
You are out of touch with reality I'm afraid. The latest polling on Brexit has Britons thinking that it was the wrong decision to vote to leave the European Union by 56% to 32%. This will gap increase as the "sunlit uplands" a.k.a lies, fail to materialise. The other factor is that each year, the numbers of Leave voters drops by around 1/4 million and since Gen-Z is 80-90% Remain, the future is writ large. The lack of any tangible benefits just seals the deal.

As the drop in GDP caused by this decision starts to impact people's daily lives, this trend will continue. I suspect that in 5 or 10 years time, the UK will start the re-joining process, driven by basic economic necessity.

Kursk 23-11-2022 00:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36140609)
You are out of touch with reality I'm afraid. The latest polling on Brexit has Britons thinking that it was the wrong decision to vote to leave the European Union by 56% to 32%. This will gap increase as the "sunlit uplands" a.k.a lies, fail to materialise. The other factor is that each year, the numbers of Leave voters drops by around 1/4 million and since Gen-Z is 80-90% Remain, the future is writ large. The lack of any tangible benefits just seals the deal.

As the drop in GDP caused by this decision starts to impact people's daily lives, this trend will continue. I suspect that in 5 or 10 years time, the UK will start the re-joining process, driven by basic economic necessity.
Please Lord, make it stop :zzz:

ianch99 23-11-2022 00:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 36140640)
Please Lord, make it stop :zzz:
Which Deity in particular? ;) However, you can't escape the truth ...

TheDaddy 23-11-2022 02:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36140641)
Which Deity in particular? ;) However, you can't escape the truth ...
Course he can, head and sand same as David Davis earlier when he said brexit has delivered no economic benefits so far, completely ignoring the economic damage it's done, the other thing he ignored is the red tape, it was supposed to slashed but instead there's another layer of it that's costing our companies billions

1andrew1 23-11-2022 09:49
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 36140640)
Please Lord, make it stop :zzz:
For the UK and the Conservative Party in particular, I don't think the debate about our relationship with the EU will ever stop, even if we rejoined! Cameron had hoped to settle the debate once and for all with the referendum but that was optimistic.

Kursk 23-11-2022 12:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140644)
For the UK and the Conservative Party in particular, I don't think the debate about our relationship with the EU will ever stop, even if we rejoined! Cameron had hoped to settle the debate once and for all with the referendum but that was optimistic.
:sulk:

Paul 23-11-2022 14:35
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36140641)
Which Deity in particular? ;) However, you can't escape the truth ...
Its that the same 'truth' that said the vote would go the other way initially ?

ianch99 23-11-2022 23:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36140663)
Its that the same 'truth' that said the vote would go the other way initially ?
Not sure what you are on about. I am talking about what *has* happened, not what *will* happen

1andrew1 24-11-2022 00:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
The legacy of Rees-Mogg's BEIS reign hangs over British business like the darkest of clouds.
Quote:
Flagship UK ‘Brexit freedoms’ bill slammed as impact study ‘not fit for purpose’

Government’s own regulatory experts give ‘red’ warning over way cost to small businesses was assessed

Ministers were accused of failing to carry out a thorough assessment of the impact on small businesses of the bill, under which several thousand EU laws would automatically expire at the end of 2023 unless they had already been reviewed, amended, renewed or scrapped.

The bill was promoted by former business secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg as a means of cleansing the British statute book of unnecessary EU regulation but has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare in Whitehall, requiring hundreds of civil servants to sift through EU laws.

An impact assessment by Rees-Mogg’s former department was subject to a scathing analysis by the Regulatory Policy Committee, an advisory body sponsored by BEIS to consider the impact of regulation.

The RPC report, published on Monday, concluded bluntly that the BEIS assessment was “not fit for purpose”.

It said: “The department has not sufficiently considered, or sought to quantify, the full impacts of the bill. In addition, the impact assessment does not include a consideration of the impact on small and micro businesses consistent with better regulation.”

The report continues that BEIS had included a range of statistics in its report but that its impact assessment had “incorrectly interpreted” some of the figures relating to sectors of the economy where many smaller companies operate.

“The quality of different analytical areas in the impact assessment are all either weak or very weak, meaning that they provide inadequate support for decision-making,” the RPC said.

It also accused ministers of making policy in the dark: “We are not assured that the impact of changing or sunsetting each piece of REUL will be calculated or understood under proposals currently in place.”
https://www.ft.com/content/84e1f637-...6-22ed66277fb8

Chris 24-11-2022 00:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140683)
The legacy of Rees-Mogg's BEIS reign hangs over British business like the darkest of clouds.

https://www.ft.com/content/84e1f637-...6-22ed66277fb8
Care to quantify that rather than sloganising?

1andrew1 24-11-2022 00:43
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36140684)
Care to quantify that rather than sloganising?
"not fit for purpose" quantifies the quality of the impact assessment. That's not sloganising, it's the reality of a poor piece of work.

Over 12 organisations have today written to Grant Shapps today setting out their concerns too. They range from the Institute of Directors through to the Trades Union Congress. A key concern is there is not enough time to review 4,000 pieces of regulation before the end of 2023 when they're removed thereby leading to regulatory black holes, breaching of international agreements and consequential fines.

jonbxx 24-11-2022 10:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140687)
"not fit for purpose" quantifies the quality of the impact assessment. That's not sloganising, it's the reality of a poor piece of work.

Over 12 organisations have today written to Grant Shapps today setting out their concerns too. They range from the Institute of Directors through to the Trades Union Congress. A key concern is there is not enough time to review 4,000 pieces of regulation before the end of 2023 when they're removed thereby leading to regulatory black holes, breaching of international agreements and consequential fines.
I just checked out the report that FT article references - https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_opinion.pdf It’s not pretty reading!

1andrew1 24-11-2022 10:50
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36140694)
I just checked out the report that FT article references - https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_opinion.pdf It’s not pretty reading!
It's horrendous.

My concern is that it will end up like the mini budget - a chaotic mess that leaves the country worse off because it's been rushed through.

Pierre 26-11-2022 21:40
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I’ve just been on a business trip in which I visited the Netherlands, Germany and Spain. Entry and exit points being Germany and the Netherlands in which I had to go through passport control.

In both Instances I did not have to join a “not EU” line. I was directed through the EU passport line both times. The only difference being to EU passport holders I got a stamp. Extra time incurred …nil.

Just thought I’d throw that out there.

Sephiroth 26-11-2022 22:24
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I like passport stamps. In the EU days, they didn't like doing them.

So I voted Leave!

Hugh 26-11-2022 23:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36140829)
I like passport stamps. In the EU days, they didn't like doing them.

So I voted Leave!
Sounds about right… ;)

Ms NTL 26-11-2022 23:17
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36140829)
I like passport stamps. In the EU days, they didn't like doing them.

So I voted Leave!
Me too. I always I ask the British passport control to stamp my British passport.
They do so, but the put (requested) below the stamp.
I voted remain. I have an EU passport too.

Sephiroth 26-11-2022 23:35
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36140831)
Me too. I always I ask the British passport control to stamp my British passport.
They do so, but the put (requested) below the stamp.
I voted remain. I have an EU passport too.
Now there you have it. The British would oblige, the foreigners wouldn’t. Irrespective of how one voted.


1andrew1 28-11-2022 22:05
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36140828)
I’ve just been on a business trip in which I visited the Netherlands, Germany and Spain. Entry and exit points being Germany and the Netherlands in which I had to go through passport control.

In both Instances I did not have to join a “not EU” line. I was directed through the EU passport line both times. The only difference being to EU passport holders I got a stamp. Extra time incurred …nil.

Just thought I’d throw that out there.
The real test will come next May when the Entry Exit System is launched but an increase of up to two minutes does not seem too bad. We shall see.

Quote:
European nations have warned that new fingerprint and face checks on arriving in the EU could take “up to four times longer” than the present system – with the processing time increased by up to two minutes per person.

The tougher border checks, known as the “Entry Exit System” (EES), are due to come into effect in May 2023 – just ahead of the peak summer season.

The UK helped develop the EES while part of the European Union – then, with the Brexit withdrawal treaty, asked to become subject to the new system.

From next summer, each time a third-country national crosses an EU external border, fingerprints and a facial biometric must be checked.

Because the UK chose to leave the European Union, the number of travellers “caught” by the Entry-Exit System will be much higher than originally envisaged.

Warnings from individual governments appear in a paper published by the General Secretariat of the Council in Brussels.

Views were sought from across the EU about the readiness of the system, and The Independent has analysed their responses.

The Slovenian government modelled the effect of the EES and reported: “It takes up to four times longer to do the new process – border check + enrolment + verification.”

Austria’s authorities said: “We expect process times to double compared to the current situation.”

Poland’s government estimates: “The time for border control of a single passenger will increase by 30-120 seconds, but only in the case of the so-called ‘happy flow’.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-b2234413.html

Damien 29-11-2022 12:19
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36140828)
I’ve just been on a business trip in which I visited the Netherlands, Germany and Spain. Entry and exit points being Germany and the Netherlands in which I had to go through passport control.

In both Instances I did not have to join a “not EU” line. I was directed through the EU passport line both times. The only difference being to EU passport holders I got a stamp. Extra time incurred …nil.

Just thought I’d throw that out there.
I would say that's rare. I've been directed via the Non-EU lines both for trips inside and outside the EU. Only one I didn't was Ireland and also the Calais Ferry Terminal which is even longer because they check right to remain for non-British Europeans resident in the UK.

1andrew1 29-11-2022 12:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36140958)
I would say that's rare. I've been directed via the Non-EU lines both for trips inside and outside the EU. Only one I didn't was Ireland and also the Calais Ferry Terminal which is even longer because they check right to remain for non-British Europeans resident in the UK.
When the Entry Exit System is implemented next May, the days of any UK passport holders being allowed into the EEA lanes must surely end.

Pierre 29-11-2022 15:05
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140959)
When the Entry Exit System is implemented next May, the days of any UK passport holders being allowed into the EEA lanes must surely end.
I don't see why, the process you refer to is already in operation in some airports it would appear.

As I left Schipol, i.e. exiting the EU, I was directed into the same line as the EU, and used the facial biometric machine to scan me and my passport. I then walked forwards where a border guard stamped my passport, the EU passport holders just walked past him.

The use of the machines should actually speed things up, as long as there are enough of them and people know how to use them correctly.

1andrew1 29-11-2022 16:49
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36140967)
I don't see why, the process you refer to is already in operation in some airports it would appear.

As I left Schipol, i.e. exiting the EU, I was directed into the same line as the EU, and used the facial biometric machine to scan me and my passport. I then walked forwards where a border guard stamped my passport, the EU passport holders just walked past him.

The use of the machines should actually speed things up, as long as there are enough of them and people know how to use them correctly.
We shall see. I would have thought it more effective to have one queue who needed passports stamping, fingerprints checking and biometrics and another one that didn't.

Pierre 29-11-2022 17:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140979)
We shall see. I would have thought it more effective to have one queue who needed passports stamping, fingerprints checking and biometrics and another one that didn't.
EU passport holders will also need biometrics checking, hence the reason we all used the same machines, you don't get your fingerprints checked.

The only difference is the getting the stamp, but I wouldn't bet on that continuing down the line.

1andrew1 29-11-2022 18:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36140982)
EU passport holders will also need biometrics checking, hence the reason we all used the same machines, you don't get your fingerprints checked.

The only difference is the getting the stamp, but I wouldn't bet on that continuing down the line.
That understanding seems to be at odds with what the paper is saying:
Quote:
From next summer, each time a third-country national crosses an EU external border, fingerprints and a facial biometric must be checked.

Sephiroth 29-11-2022 19:51
Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...mply-eu-rules/

Quote:
Netherlands to close up to 3,000 farms to comply with EU rules

The Dutch government plans to buy and close down up to 3,000 farms near environmentally sensitive areas to comply with EU nature preservation rules.

The Netherlands is attempting to cut down its nitrogen pollution and will push ahead with compulsory purchases if not enough farms take up the offer voluntarily.
We're well out of the EU - although I hope the UK doesn't go mad as well.

TheDaddy 06-12-2022 12:23
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Apparently were about to enter a food supply crisis according to the NFU, it's going well...

Sephiroth 06-12-2022 12:37
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36141308)
Apparently were about to enter a food supply crisis according to the NFU, it's going well...
Where is the Brexit dimension to this?

1andrew1 06-12-2022 12:53
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141309)
Where is the Brexit dimension to this?
Maybe linked to the article below? Or is The Daddy saying it's the wrong time for any country to cut food production?

Quote:
Brexit added £210 to the average household food bill in the two years to the end of 2021, new research suggests.

Academics at the London School of Economics (LSE) found that the cost of food imported from Europe went up because of extra red tape and checks.

They said that rule changes for items going across the border had pushed food prices up by 6%, or £5.84bn overall.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63821133

Sephiroth 06-12-2022 13:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36141311)
Maybe linked to the article below? Or is The Daddy saying it's the wrong time for any country to cut food production?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63821133
Nah - The Daddy is doing an Ian about the disappointing post-Brexit Britain.

TheDaddy 06-12-2022 13:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141309)
Where is the Brexit dimension to this?
The red tape, the lack of workers, the bs about the cap subsidy being replaced by a like for like equivalent etc etc etc let me guess though it's the war in Ukraine forcing grain prices up, it's the avian flu that means eggs are being rationed and when farming has been sacrificed like patrick minford said it would have to be I'm sure there will be another dimension other than brexit that you can blame, lazy farmers, perhaps you can go with that

ianch99 06-12-2022 13:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141314)
Nah - The Daddy is doing an Ian about the disappointing post-Brexit Britain.
Also known as defining reality :)

Kursk 12-12-2022 18:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
The president of the European Parliament has warned that "European democracy is under attack", following allegations that Qatar bribed EU officials to win influence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63941509

Surely not?:rolleyes:

Sephiroth 12-12-2022 20:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Maybe the usual Remainer suspects will have something to say about corruption at the top of the EU Parliament.

Dave42 12-12-2022 20:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141707)
Maybe the usual Remainer suspects will have something to say about corruption at the top of the EU Parliament.
maybe the leavers will say something about the corruption of the UK government but bet they wont corruption should be called out no matter what party and the corrupt people dealt with

Julian 12-12-2022 20:23
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36141708)
maybe the leavers will say something about the corruption of the UK government but bet they wont corruption should be called out no matter what party and the corrupt people dealt with
Whilst true, doesn't your post come under heading of Whataboutery which is trotted out here quite frequently ...... ;)

Hugh 12-12-2022 20:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
1 Attachment(s)
Reply from the Head of the U.K. Statistics Authority to a complaint from an MP about the Conservative claim about "new trade deals" since Brexit.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1670873315

https://uksa.statisticsauthority.gov...al-statistics/

Quote:
Response from Sir Robert Chote to Drew Hendry MP – Trade deal statistics

Dear Mr Hendry,

Thank you for contacting us with your concerns about a trade infographic shared by the Conservative Party on Twitter, which stated that the Government has “secured new free trade deals with over 70 countries since 2016. That’s over £800 billion worth of new global trade”.

As regards the figure of £800 billion, we presume that this has been calculated from figures for UK trade by country published by the Office for National Statistics. These show that the value of total trade with the EU was £559 billion in 2021 (exports of £267 billion plus imports of £292 billion) and that the value of total trade with the 71 non-EU countries with which the UK has agreed trade deals since 2016, including those where existing deals with the EU have been rolled over, was £245 billion, giving a total of £804 billion. These non-EU countries include 67 listed by the Department for International Trade plus Australia, Brunei, Malaysia and New Zealand (with whom the Government has signed deals that are not yet in force).

Under the principles of intelligent transparency, we would expect the infographic to include a source for the figure so that the public can verify the numbers, understand the definitions used and put the data into context. More specifically in this case, it is misleading to describe the £800 billion figure as a measure of “new global trade” resulting from the recent deals. That would imply that there had been no trade with these countries before the recent deals and that there would be none now without them.

We have spoken to the Conservative Party and asked that any future communications include a link or reference to the source of statistics. We have also requested that the Party be more transparent about the context and assumptions that have been made to construct such statements and infographics.

Yours sincerely,

Sir Robert Chote

Hugh 12-12-2022 20:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141707)
Maybe the usual Remainer suspects will have something to say about corruption at the top of the EU Parliament.
Any alleged corruption should be investigated, and if MEPs/officials are found guilty, appropriate punishments issued.

Sephiroth 12-12-2022 20:52
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36141708)
maybe the leavers will say something about the corruption of the UK government but bet they wont corruption should be called out no matter what party and the corrupt people dealt with
Typical. What have you to say about the corrupt EU?

ianch99 12-12-2022 21:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141720)
Typical. What have you to say about the corrupt EU?
We can see the corrupt Tory Leave government in plain sight, where's the evidence of this EU "corruption"?

Sephiroth 12-12-2022 21:25
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36141722)
We can see the corrupt Tory Leave government in plain sight, where's the evidence of this EU "corruption"?
Here.

Dave42 12-12-2022 21:51
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141720)
Typical. What have you to say about the corrupt EU?
the people that been corrupt in EU should feel full force of the law will you say same about the corrupt UK government

1andrew1 12-12-2022 22:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141707)
Maybe the usual Remainer suspects will have something to say about corruption at the top of the EU Parliament.
Lock her up with Gove. They deserve one another.

Sephiroth 12-12-2022 22:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36141728)
the people that been corrupt in EU should feel full force of the law will you say same about the corrupt UK government
Full force of the law must be applied to any proven (in Court) UK Government corruption.

Obviously - why did you need to extract that from me?

Ms NTL 12-12-2022 22:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Clearly, EU is useless. The vice president of EU only got 600,000 Euros cash bribe from the Qataris. Our King got 3,000,000 cash in a suitcase from the Qataris.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...in-qatari-cash

Compare returns and efficiency! Britain is on the way up!

Sephiroth 12-12-2022 22:48
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36141731)
Clearly, EU is useless. The vice president of EU only got 600,000 Euros cash bribe from the Qataris. Our King got 3,000,000 cash in a suitcase from the Qataris.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...in-qatari-cash

Compare returns and efficiency! Britain is on the way up!
My followers will know that I am not a fan of Charlie Farley.
Horrible mountebank and I'm surprised that this particular bag of cash has not been further investigated by the press.

ianch99 12-12-2022 23:55
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141724)
No, you said the "EU is corrupt"? Individual politicians have been corrupt since the world began so what's new? At least in the EU, said politician is likely to be prosecuted. In this country, they parade in plain sight.

You seem not interested in the 37 billion spaffed down the drain in Track & Trace, the billions written off in Covid fraud, the 100's of millions given to Tory chums to supply useless PPE, the billions given to Banks in tax breaks when the money could pay the Nurses, the 30 billion black hole created by Truss, etc. The list is endless and yet you focus on the "corrupt EU"?

Sephiroth 13-12-2022 00:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36141739)
No, you said the "EU is corrupt"? Individual politicians have been corrupt since the world began so what's new? At least in the EU, said politician is likely to be prosecuted. In this country, they parade in plain sight.

You seem not interested in the 37 billion spaffed down the drain in Track & Trace, the billions written off in Covid fraud, the 100's of millions given to Tory chums to supply useless PPE, the billions given to Banks in tax breaks when the money could pay the Nurses, the 30 billion black hole created by Truss, etc. The list is endless and yet you focus on the "corrupt EU"?
You're splitting hairs. The "corrupt EU" is all the headlines right now and the Commission President has also gone public on this.

Actually, as an organisation, the EU is indeed corrupt. Democratically corrupt. It is sneakily engineering the removal of sovereignty from the constituent nations to the centre; it wants the European Union Parliament to trump national parliaments. And they are sneakily doing this bit by bit.

When/if that happens, the political groups with their collective interests will outvote minorities. The certainly would have happened to the Uk if federalisation were to occur should we have remined in the EU.

Sovereignty is everything; all it then needs is a competent government which we don't have.

Julian 13-12-2022 00:19
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Whataboutery overload!!!!!!!!!

ianch99 13-12-2022 00:31
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141741)
You're splitting hairs. The "corrupt EU" is all the headlines right now and the Commission President has also gone public on this.

Actually, as an organisation, the EU is indeed corrupt. Democratically corrupt. It is sneakily engineering the removal of sovereignty from the constituent nations to the centre; it wants the European Union Parliament to trump national parliaments. And they are sneakily doing this bit by bit.

When/if that happens, the political groups with their collective interests will outvote minorities. The certainly would have happened to the Uk if federalisation were to occur should we have remined in the EU.

Sovereignty is everything; all it then needs is a competent government which we don't have.
It is a serious point. You focus on the EU yet accept, tolerate and endorse the corruption in the very Party you belong to. I think this says it all.

The EU is corrupt as any large Governmental body is, no more. You seem happy to accept an unelected Chamber as part of our Legislature, stuffed with political cronies and then say, with the same breath, that the EU is "corrupt and undemocratic".

1andrew1 13-12-2022 00:55
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36141731)
Clearly, EU is useless. The vice president of EU only got 600,000 Euros cash bribe from the Qataris. Our King got 3,000,000 cash in a suitcase from the Qataris.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...in-qatari-cash

Compare returns and efficiency! Britain is on the way up!
:D:D:D

Ms NTL 13-12-2022 01:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36141732)
My followers will know that I am not a fan of Charlie Farley.
Horrible mountebank and I'm surprised that this particular bag of cash has not been further investigated by the press.
My post was ironic - just a joke. Please ignore it.

Arabs do business in a different way than us. The oil states have no tax and they have Sharia law.

You lot will shred me into pieces as I know very little about either.

Arab oil states pay cash or Western Union with a pin. That's their way of doing things.

Now I sound like the VP of EU.

Santander payed 108m fine for money laundering last week. Details NONE. But I understand how they have done it. Our way....

And yes, the oil states can disperse cash via their embassies freely, that's their way, and under the sharia law . No interest is charged.

Who is corrupt? .......and what is really the law?

Sephiroth 13-12-2022 10:16
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36141743)
It is a serious point. You focus on the EU yet accept, tolerate and endorse the corruption in the very Party you belong to. I think this says it all.

The EU is corrupt as any large Governmental body is, no more. You seem happy to accept an unelected Chamber as part of our Legislature, stuffed with political cronies and then say, with the same breath, that the EU is "corrupt and undemocratic".
Quote:
You focus on the EU yet accept, tolerate and endorse the corruption in the very Party you belong to. I think this says it all.
Quite the opposite. In my posts, I have explicitly denounced any corruption in the UK. In fact, you've been quite insulting towards me.

Quote:
The EU is corrupt as any large Governmental body is, no more.
What - your darling EU corrupt?

Quote:
You seem happy to accept an unelected Chamber as part of our Legislature, stuffed with political cronies and then say, with the same breath, that the EU is "corrupt and undemocratic".
Did I say or hint any of that? Btw, an elected upper chamber needs very careful thought so as not to cripple government legislation. The public would play games art election time, I suspect.



---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36141746)
My post was ironic - just a joke. Please ignore it.

Arabs do business in a different way than us. The oil states have no tax and they have Sharia law.

You lot will shred me into pieces as I know very little about either.

Arab oil states pay cash or Western Union with a pin. That's their way of doing things.

Now I sound like the VP of EU.

Santander payed 108m fine for money laundering last week. Details NONE. But I understand how they have done it. Our way....

And yes, the oil states can disperse cash via their embassies freely, that's their way, and under the sharia law . No interest is charged.

Who is corrupt? .......and what is really the law?
Well - what to say?

Qatar et al expect us to behave in accordance with their laws when we're there. Surely we should expect reciprocity.

But brown envelopes, so to speak, stuffed with cash so as to steer EU policy towards Qatar or wherever is wrong by any standards, and Qatar knows this.



papa smurf 13-12-2022 20:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
ooh heck
Bribes, what bribes? £1.3 MILLION in cash found stashed in EU politicians' houses is pictured as Greek Euro parliament vice president Eva Kaili denies taking money from Qatar

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ized-cash.html

ianch99 13-12-2022 23:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/statu...50076555386886

Quote:
Which system is less corrupt?

EU Politician Eva Kaili found guilty of paid lobbying (bribery).
625 (1 against) MEPs vote to fire her.

UK MP Owen Paterson found guilty of paid lobbying (bribery).
243 (6 against) Tories voted to change the roles [sic] to protect him.
Says it all ... corruption in plain sight.

daveeb 14-12-2022 12:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36141803)
https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/statu...50076555386886



Says it all ... corruption in plain sight.
Indeed, let's sit back and wait for the whataboutery village vigilantes waving their pitchforks, the last defiant defence of the indefensible.

Kursk 14-12-2022 12:48
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
We three kings of Orient are
Bearing gifts we come from Qatar
In the eu we’ve found
Corruption abounds
It’s a penalty on reviewing the VAR

And the winner is...Brexit :D

Julian 14-12-2022 13:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 36141821)
Indeed, let's sit back and wait for the whataboutery village vigilantes waving their pitchforks, the last defiant defence of the indefensible.
Calling out whataboutery is in no way defending the indefensible. If you understood the term you might realise that.

There are plenty of threads on this forum where people have called out whataboutery when starmer or labour are mentioned after something about the tories. I saw no village vigilante/pitchfork comment there.

For the record I have never defended anything the tories have done, I just have an aversion to blatant hypocrisy. ;)

daveeb 14-12-2022 13:37
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36141824)
Calling out whataboutery is in no way defending the indefensible. If you understood the term you might realise that.

There are plenty of threads on this forum where people have called out whataboutery when starmer or labour are mentioned after something about the tories. I saw no village vigilante/pitchfork comment there.

For the record I have never defended anything the tories have done, I just have an aversion to blatant hypocrisy. ;)
Well it wasn't directed at you in particular although you do seem quite fond of mentioning it, but you haven't commented on the contrast in behaviour that ianch99 noted merely defended the criticism of whataboutery. Which makes my point nicely.

Sephiroth 14-12-2022 15:20
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36141824)
Calling out whataboutery is in no way defending the indefensible. If you understood the term you might realise that.

There are plenty of threads on this forum where people have called out whataboutery when starmer or labour are mentioned after something about the tories. I saw no village vigilante/pitchfork comment there.

For the record I have never defended anything the tories have done, I just have an aversion to blatant hypocrisy. ;)
More or less exactamundo. As regards the Tories, my party has massively screwed up over the last 6 years and will pay the price at the GE.

But my response here is to address "whataboutery". It's an awful term that I see as the last bastion for those who have nothing of value to contribute on a specific topic or sub-topic. Talking of which, Ian doesn't seem to like anything that discredits the EU. So he has to discredit the already discredited Tories and does nothing to make the EU any better.

Was it Greeks and Italians involved in the current EU scandal? Generally from the May-22 report:

https://www.eurojust.europa.eu/news/...er-cases-rises

Quote:
The top five Member States involved in corruption cases registered at Eurojust are Greece, Germany, Romania, Italy and Spain. Third countries also play a key role in Eurojust's corruption casework. Between 2016 and 2021, 42 third countries were involved in corruption cases.

Hugh 14-12-2022 16:37
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
From your last link

Quote:
This increase reflects the EU's priority to crack down on corruption and Eurojust's growing importance in helping Member States tackle this specific type of cross-border crime.
Very few organisations are totally free from corruption (be they Governmental or Business), it’s how they try to deal with it that counts.

Sephiroth 14-12-2022 16:57
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36141837)
From your last link



Very few organisations are totally free from corruption (be they Governmental or Business), it’s how they try to deal with it that counts.
That's like Rishi saying he'll cut down the illegal migration numbers.

They've got to say all that.

Sephiroth 19-12-2022 18:16
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
The UK really is broken at the moment. Nothing to do with Brexit - all to do with useless government.

Btw, if the rail fares increase by something close to inflation (government is holding back on that) then the unions could ask for that amount at least. So isn't this the moment for the Guvmin to announce the fares increase (takes effect March 2023).


ianch99 19-12-2022 19:41
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36142230)
The UK really is broken at the moment. Nothing to do with Brexit - all to do with useless government
This is the real problem the country need to tackle - the deliberate denial of facts. Brexit, Covid and Ukraine are the 3 main factors in what is dragging this country down at the moment, in many respects. Now we can argue what order they are in but, and this is the absolute reality here, they are all major factors. Any other interpretation is gaslighting.

Sephiroth 19-12-2022 19:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36142244)
This is the real problem the country need to tackle - the deliberate denial of facts. Brexit, Covid and Ukraine are the 3 main factors in what is dragging this country down at the moment, in many respects. Now we can argue what order they are in but, and this is the absolute reality here, they are all major factors. Any other interpretation is gaslighting.

The country is broken because nothing works in terms of the key public facilities. Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. Just crap government.

ianch99 19-12-2022 20:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36142246)

The country is broken because nothing works in terms of the key public facilities. Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. Just crap government.
Pure gaslighting ...

A new example how Brexit is impacting us:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2022/12/1.jpg

Sephiroth 19-12-2022 20:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
They're striking over pay, not the absence of EU nurses & ambulance drivers.

1andrew1 19-12-2022 23:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36142250)
They're striking over pay, not the absence of EU nurses & ambulance drivers.
They're striking over the staffing crisis and pay. The Times article is correct.

BenMcr 19-12-2022 23:24
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36142258)
They're striking over the staffing crisis and pay. The Times article is correct.
Indeed

https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-even...nounced-251122

Quote:
The dispute is over pay, but also patient safety. Staffing levels are so low that patient care is being compromised. Only by paying nursing staff fairly will we recruit and retain people in our profession.

Sephiroth 19-12-2022 23:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36142258)
They're striking over the staffing crisis and pay. The Times article is correct.
I couldn't find where the Times article mentions the strike.

EDIT: But I note Ben's remarks.

ianch99 19-12-2022 23:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36142262)
I couldn't find where the Times article mentions the strike.

EDIT: But I note Ben's remarks.
I am not talking about the strike, I am pointing out the role of Brexit in degrading our already understaffed NHS.

To bring home the dire state of the NHS, I have just got a text from our GP Surgery informing that they are suspending routine GP services and can only handle emergency appointments.

Things are really, really bad out there ...

Mick 19-12-2022 23:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Yes they are bad, but they were bad before we left the EU.

ianch99 19-12-2022 23:48
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36142266)
Yes they are bad, but they were bad before we left the EU.
I'm sorry, GP services where we live have never been anywhere near this bad. It really is at the limit. The NHS Trust is telling us that almost every bed across the county is occupied.

---------- Post added at 22:48 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36142266)
Yes they are bad, but they were bad before we left the EU.
How are things in the Care sector?

1andrew1 20-12-2022 18:13
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Whether or not you agree or disagree with Brexit from a sovereignty perspective, it's always useful to establish the cost.
Quote:
‘Worse than feared’: Brexit to blame for £33bn loss to UK economy, study shows

Brexit has cost the UK a staggering £33bn in lost trade and investment, according to a new study which found that the economic damage is even worse than previously feared.

Research by the Centre for European Reform (CEF), shared with The Independent, shows that Britain’s economy is 5.5 per cent smaller than it would have been if the country had remained inside the EU.

The UK’s goods trade is 7 per cent lower and investment is 11 per cent lower than it would have been had the Remain campaign won the 2016 Brexit referendum, according to the think tank’s analysis.

“Brexit has clearly had a significant impact on the economy,” said John Springford, deputy director of the CEF. “There has been sizeable hit on trade and investment.”

The CER modelled the performance of a “doppelganger” UK – if the nation had remained inside the EU – using data from other advanced economies similar to Britain prior to Brexit, including US, Germany, Norway and Australia.

Mr Springford said the impact of Covid had slightly complicated the picture when the think tank’s previous assessment was carried out earlier this year.

But he said it was now clear that the difference between Britain’s sluggish performance compared to similar economies was down to Brexit rather than the pandemic. “I’m confident that Covid is not skewing the picture.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...22ea6a7919bf6a

Mick 20-12-2022 20:29
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
:zzz:

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36142269)
I'm sorry, GP services where we live have never been anywhere near this bad. It really is at the limit. The NHS Trust is telling us that almost every bed across the county is occupied.

---------- Post added at 22:48 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------



How are things in the Care sector?
Same as healthcare. Short staffed, using agency to cover gaps.

Paul 20-12-2022 23:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36142316)
Whether or not you agree or disagree with Brexit from a sovereignty perspective, it's always useful to establish the cost.
It might be if the "cost" were actual facts.

Quote:
The CER modelled the performance of a “doppelganger” UK
So basically just made up - one thing covid taught us is how bad models are.

1andrew1 21-12-2022 01:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36142332)
It might be if the "cost" were actual facts.

So basically just made up - one thing covid taught us is how bad models are.
How else can you measure it?

Paul 21-12-2022 04:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36142334)
How else can you measure it?
You cant, thats the point.

TheDaddy 21-12-2022 06:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36142339)
You cant, thats the point.
Course you can, what was the size of the economy pre leaving and what's the size of it now is the easiest way, like pre leaving the economy was 90% the size of Germany's and now it's 70% of the size and falling

1andrew1 21-12-2022 10:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36142339)
You cant, thats the point.
This is the closest way of doing so. Covid doesn't meant that we burnt all our text books on economic modelling.

Damien 21-12-2022 11:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
We didn't get all these trade deals that were meant to materialise and we know trade with the EU dropped a lot. Seems pretty obvious that would impact our growth.

Things like manufacturing took the biggest hits, car production in this country has drastically gone down, presumably because those are harder to export now.

Sephiroth 21-12-2022 11:16
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36142345)
We didn't get all these trade deals that were meant to materialise and we know trade with the EU dropped a lot. Seems pretty obvious that would impact our growth.

Things like manufacturing took the biggest hits, car production in this country has drastically gone down, presumably because those are harder to export now.
... shouldn't be as we have free trade with EU, albeit with some non-tariff downsides.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-brexit-dea...uk-automotive/

Quote:
That a trade deal has been at been agreed at the last minute between the UK and EU comes as a huge relief for manufacturing sectors like automotive, which would have faced tariffs of 10% on exports and imports in the event of no deal – an outcome widely viewed as potentially ‘devastating’ for the sector.

BMW for example recently stated that a no-trade deal scenario would push up costs by several hundred million euros, and that longer term it would look at where to make the Mini model.

It’s hoped that the deal now gives a green light to major investments in the UK that had been stalled amidst Brexit uncertainty, such as that by PSA in assembling the Vauxhall/Opel Astra at Ellesmere Port, and Nissan starting Qashqai production in 2021 at Sunderland. If so, that’s genuinely good news in securing a new round of model assembly at two plants at least.

1andrew1 21-12-2022 11:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36142345)
We didn't get all these trade deals that were meant to materialise and we know trade with the EU dropped a lot. Seems pretty obvious that would impact our growth.

Things like manufacturing took the biggest hits, car production in this country has drastically gone down, presumably because those are harder to export now.
I agree with some of what you say. Regarding car manufacturing, I think this has been impacted by the Honda factory closure and chip shortages.


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