Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Bribery wasn't it? So the transition from Soviet Communism to Western capitalism went smoothly

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'm sure I read somewhere that Turkey, population 76 million, is joining the EU too

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Well, a couple (in both ways) led development of the Coronavirus vaccine at the company they founded in Germany, BioNTech, so imagine what 76m could do for the EU!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Nah, would never work.

Kebabs are the staple food of the heavy drinking night crowd . . . and pubs/clubs are closed ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

https://twitter.com/adamparsons/stat...94165489049600

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

hopefully we do get a deal

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Won't go down well in Torygraphland. Nothing less than no deal and total meltdown will be acceptable.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

We'll get something but it won't be a shade on what we have at the moment. But we knew this would be the case - do lorry drivers defecate in Kent, as the expression goes. ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Yes but at least can wave the flag and have a blue passport. Mind you we could gave done that as an EU member.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Clearly, it will not be a shade close to what we have now. No more free movement, no more EU laws, no more stolen fish, etc, etc.

It’s all good. Just as the electorate ordered.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

As anticipated the 'no deal' chat was all bluster and the fact we have President-elect Sleepy Joe has killed off any quick US trade deal. No need to stretch this pretence out any further we need a deal with the EU.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Anyone know if the rumours Nissan are shutting Sunderland are true?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Can't accuse Anthony Blinken of bearing about the bush!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1760497.html

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No-Deal Brexit Would Cause More Damage to UK than COVID: BoE’s Bailey

Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey said on Monday a no-deal Brexit would cause longer-term damage to Britain’s economy than the COVID-19 pandemic, and the impact of the change might be felt for decades.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/new.../24/591853.htm

hopefully a deal gets over the line

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Am sure we'll get a deal - talk of no-deal being acceptable may have ralied a few populists but was never really on the agenda. Come 2021, we will be a less competitive and less influential nation but negotiations on our relationship with the EU will continue; they will be part of the post-EU member state new normal.

---------- Post added at 23:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ----------

On a lighter note, this new parody account (I'm assuming that's what it is) is currently amusing me no end! :D
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/stat...35720610783233

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

One of the challenges of "reaching a deal at the last hour" is how Government/businesses put in place the processes and procedures to support that last minute deal...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'm hoping for a no deal christmas :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The true spirit of Christmas ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Scrooge! :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I wonder if he'll get a festive visit from three ghouls, maybe Farage, Rees Mogg and Gove although I can think of several others who could step in at short notice :shocked:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

:D:D:D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I won't be getting a festive visit from anybody, all this booze and these mince pies are mine, all mine, and everyone knows it . .

*waves shotgun* :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Good work, I think you've fooled 'em all! ;)

I'll be around again for the annual Cable Forum knees-up! :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It doesn't seem to be going very well.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1762114.html

And I thought we had the EU on their knees ? Turns out we're not worth bothering about.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

In your opinion. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Maybe we are worth bothering about after all.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55090861

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Not a headline I expected to see... :shocked:

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/n...ogging-213622/

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No doubt worried that he'll lose his favourite parking spot

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Poor Old Kent.

From the Garden of Kent to the Toilet Park of Europe, a Level 3 Coronavirus Tier and now this. Not even the wildest Project Fear predictions had it as grim as this!:D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

oh come on Andrew, it's one bloke scared about losing his dogging spot, that's assuming he actually lives in the area and not someone out of town that (like others) look for any excuse for a good Brexit Bash ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Me too! ;)

Attachment 28711

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Me too

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You employ Poles? Is that at your Wizard of Wads Emporium?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Pôle emploi is a French governmental agency which registers unemployed people, helps them find jobs and provides them with financial aid. The agency was created in 2009, resulting from the merger between the ANPE and the ASSEDIC. The agency employs 45,000 civil servants.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Easy to see where they find people work :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Here's the link you got that from - for "Fair Use", it's polite to provide the link...:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%B4le_emploi

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------

It's basically the French version of the JobCentre+

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

"Easiest deal ever" :dunce: Let them eat fish!

https://www.ft.com/content/4573cc3a-...1-765f61759c7c

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Details leaking out in this way looks like preparing for no deal - HMG wants us to understand just how unreasonable the EU was being. It won’t be hard for them to get some friendly tabloids to run the story in the way they want. To be fair the EU has made it easy for them by attempting to portray themselves as making a concession, when in truth the waters in question are under British sovereign control and access to them once the present agreement runs out is entirely in our gift. It seems the EU even now is ideologically incapable of understanding what us leaving the bloc actually means.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

tbf, that could apply equally to some on this side of the Channel...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I don't think there's any ideology involved on the EU's part. Rightly or wrongly, it's just defending its members' interests. I doubt anyone can wring a better deal from the EU than Lady Thatcher did. Running down the clock only plays to the EU's advantage. To his credit, this is something Dominic Cummings appreciated.

No deal means no Nissan and more unemployment. The OBR suggests an additional 2% reduction in GDP on top of the 4% the country will suffer if it left with the current deal. The EU's calculation will be that BoJo can't afford no deal, especially now. On the one hand, BoJo acknowledges this and quietly paid out a £1bn leaving settlement to the EU last week. But he also knows that economic literacy is low in the UK and the population can't easily translate a 6% decline in GDP into the impact on their pay checks and public services. The fog of Covid also helps.

It will be fascinating to see how this plays out.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Anyway it plays out isn't good. It's a matter of the what's least damaging. Turns out Brexit was all about a few fish, and its going to cost us billions that we don't have. I don't even like fish...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The really sad thing is we will end up selling quotas to catch these fish to European countries so it won't even be British workers benefiting, iirc even one of those loony groups, fish for leave or some irrelevant nonsense name is happy to settle for 60% British boats and crews, all the cost and hassle for that and they won't get 60% because a lot of quotas were sold 30 years ago!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Polly Toynbee's predictions on Brexit. Not long till we find out if she's right!
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other...rtan-ntp-feeds

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

She has it right imo, fish is not the issue, the real issue is standard's. I fear for our farmers to, how can they compete when evrryone else has subsidies except them.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Polly Tuscany is the very sort of angry, upper class champagne socialist who's properly cross about Brexit because it messes with their holidays and their kids' gap-yah plans. She neither understands, nor cares about, the working class voters whose cause she flatters herself is also hers. Her prediction is based on a fairly standard failing of the British left, which is to despise one's political opponents and assume them to be utterly incapable of anything (a trait you rarely see on the mainstream right, where the opposition is generally treated as intellectually wrong, but not fundamentally wicked). That angry little rant essentially boils down to a prediction that the EU will continue to exert the same influence it does now, the UK will score none of its negotiating objectives and the whole exercise will be shown to have been a total, unmitigated and pointless disaster. My own prediction is that she's too blinded by hate to be taken seriously.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

And you're too blinded by the no win situation we're in.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

https://britishseafishing.co.uk/brexit-and-britains-fisheries/

This article provides some perspective on what the fishing argument is all about (my bold highlight).

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

At the end of the day no one gives a toss about fish. It was hardly mentioned as an issue. If that's what Brexit has come down to then its pathetic. Wages, prices, jobs and standard of living are the issues. Brexit isn't going to improve any of those, quite the opposite.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

So speaks the expert.:rolleyes:

I think you'd have a few fishermen around the British Isles disagreeing with you there.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

If the UK had sold that quota to a British company instead of to the highest bidder, we wouldn't be in this situation. British fishermen have been sold down the river before, and then proudly paraded by Brexiters. How long till they're thrown overboard again like the farmers?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Polly who?

What does she do for a living then (apart from write opinion pieces in the Guardian)? Does she have a 'proper' job or live off dads money?
and no, I'm not wasting my time looking . . .

Back to the fish . . . you'd think all these 'remain' type antagonists would be behind us having a fishing fleet again, it would give us something to sell to the EU members demanding our fish . . we don't have much else to sell ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

How will Brexit stop DEFRA giving/selling fishing rights to companies like this? It wasn't the EU who divvies up the rights to vessels, it's the UK Government

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Brexit returns the entire regulatory framework to exclusively British control. It is that British control that allows us to set (or re-set) our quotas and the licences that divide them up. It also allows us to make rules about who can buy rights, and how long they can hold them. Within the EU, the UK had no sovereign means of bringing those quota allocations back under UK control. Outside, we do.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The EU sets the quotas but has no say on who the government gives licences to. Here's the wording of the regulations;

and

Articles 16 and 17 here - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...3R1380&from=EN

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Your second quote refutes your claim that the EU has no say on who governments give licences to. There's a fairly comprehensive set of instructions there, telling governments what they can and can't do when making decisions. There are also state aid and competition rules that affect a member state's ability to unilaterally withdraw licences.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Will be grimly fascinating to see what happens. Even if the UK manages to negotiate a bigger share of some fish stocks, the ability to export to the EU looks harder, even with a trade deal.

https://www.ft.com/content/4f224474-...2-0e5cf00c67bd

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Article 17 says how the Fishing Quota Allowance (FQAs) should be divvied up. It doesn't say who it should go to. That is purely each governments decision.

I guess Brexit gives the UK the opportunity to allocate FQAs using less transparent and objective way with less regard to environmental, social and economic factors but is this a benefit?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It's a benefit to your mates if you can allocate them the same way you did the Coronavirus contracts. :td:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...irus-contracts

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Closer on the level playing field, fish still an issue.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...atches-says-eu

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Nearly every langoustine caught in UK waters goes to the European market. If they don’t get them from us, there will be a very large hole in their menus.

So they will buy them.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Not any price - if prices rise by 20% then demand will fall as people move to alternatives.

Or fishermen will have to absorb the 20% taxes and additional paperwork costs. If they have the margins.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

What's the alternative to langoustine ?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'd go for a nice proper Italian margherita pizza myself.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Eating something else...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No they won’t.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Well, according to Have I got News for You earlier today:
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2020/12/1.jpg

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Langoustines are scampi. No problem eating more of this. :)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

We could offer the EU 80% of those in lieu of fish.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

We're in retreat on our fish demands...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ichel-barnier/

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Why so confrontational?

It’s better for everyone if a deal is agreed - using emotive terms just winds people up.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Potential Brexit benefit for animal rights
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55167473

---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 ----------

Who won't do what?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Read your post, read my answer - it’s quite simple.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re-read my post, it's reproduced below to make it simple:

Your response benefits from the skill of mind-reading which few of us on this forum are luck enough to possess. ;)

Put simply, your response could mean several things:
- Prices won't rise by 20%
- People will not move to alternatives
- Fishermen won't have to absorb the 20% taxes and paperwork costs
- Fishermen don't have the margins.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The 3rd one, obviously.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

That assumes that fishermen do not charge the maximum price they can for their catches.

Interesting.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You do realise that an individual, reasonably large langoustine only works out at something like £1-2 at a wholesale trader’s fish market? You are literally talking about 20 or 40 pence difference in price per individual. If that price is passed all the way along to the restaurant menu it will make precisely smeg-all difference to someone who fancies ordering langoustine for their dinner.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

If it makes no difference to the diners, why aren't fishermen charging that higher price now? Capitalism is about charging the price that maximises profit, not just looking at your costs and adding a margin. If fishermen can't charge 20% more now, what makes you expect them to be able to charge more in the future and make the same sales?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Your definition of capitalism is way off the mark.

The seller of a product will indeed want to maximise profit, however the desire to do this is only part of the equation. Actually doing it in a competitive market is a whole other proposition.

Capitalism depends on supply and demand. Nobody can simply put their prices up unless they hold a monopoly, and monopolies are extremely difficult to sustain. So is price fixing, and that’s what would have to happen for every fisherman to put their prices up by 20% at the same time. This is illegal.

For any one or two fishermen to raise prices would simply result in them losing business. Unless theirs was a higher quality product, it would simply not sell until all the cheaper stuff had gone.

An import duty that amounts to perhaps 40p on the wholesale price of a good quality langoustine just isn’t going to have an impact on restaurants if all of them have to put the price up at the same time. In a half-decent British seafood restaurant* you would pay £25 for a dish of langoustine, and maybe get 5 or 6 “tails” on the plate. That adds £1 or £2 to the price of what was already the most expensive thing on the menu. People who were already prepared to order the most expensive dish do not choose not to do so for the sake of £1 or £2 more.

*And yes I know British restaurants won’t be affected by tariffs on British-caught langoustine, it’s just easier to use local prices for illustration.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Unless KFC do Languistine can't see it being an issue for Brexit Britain. Let the French have it, at least they appreciate it.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

As usual Chris is correct, my favourite treat when we could eat out is a nice fillet steak and I’ve paid anywhere between £20 - £35 for one, depending on the establishment.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No worries on the currency you've chosen to make your point.

Capitalism depends on supply and demand, agreed, but most goods will see a decrease in sales if prices increase. I don't think languistine is immune to this rule though the decrease may be less substantial than other things. (The exception being things like water bills which are monopoly providers of essential services.)

If tariffs of 20% are applied then unless all fishermen put their prices up simultaneously which could look like collusion and is unlikely, some will put their prices up by the full amount whilst other will put them up by a smaller amount or not at all hoping to increase market share. Thus contradictuing Pierre's assertion that none will absorb any of the costs.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The tariffs are applied to the export consignment, not the quayside wholesaler. There is no visible difference as far as fishermen catching in British waters and landing in British ports are concerned, unless the export purchasers attempt to drive the price they're prepared to pay down by 20% to allow for the tariff they are then going to have to pay. That is unlikely to happen though, because the British fishermen will be in control of the market and the exporters will not easily be able to fulfil demand from restaurants in France from other sources.

Conversely, if the UK concedes a significant amount of fishing permission to the EU it is possible that certain fish demand could be satisfied by EU trawlers fishing in British waters, then landing the catch in EU ports. No tariff is then due. Hence why this is such a vexed issue.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Seen lots of posts in the outer world saying that, even with a deal, they think that there will be interruptions to supply chains. Some are starting to stockpile.

I can see a surge in panic buying after Christmas leading up to the 31st, then after New Years Day, whether this comes to fruition or not, the shops being quiet.

I've been gradually increasing my stock of food and pet food, so now have a few big boxes to see me through the worst.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Brexit: Trade talks put on hold as UK and EU say 'conditions not met' for deal

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-tr...-deal-12151231

Brexit trade talks between the UK and the EU have been put on hold after the two sides said "conditions for an agreement are not met".

The bloc's chief negotiator Michel Barnier said he and Downing Street's David Frost had agreed to "pause" talks on a deal while they brief their principals on the state of play of the negotiations.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-tr...-deal-12151231

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

So much of this is theatre.

I don't know if there is going to be a deal or not but has there even been an EU-UK agreement that didn't involve it going down to the wire and them 'suddenly' approving a deal in the early hours after a midnight deadline had passed?

Likewise was there any prospect that, if a deal is done, that it wouldn't involve a last moment drama before the negotiating teams give up and it comes down to the leaders to sort it out?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Don’t forget plenty of tinfoil, for your head.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

What do you mean by that?