Re: Brexit
 

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Theresa May in last-ditch bid to save Brexit deal despite growing mutiny.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...growing-mutiny

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You are being selective, hence the snip. :)

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Take it to the people Theresa, it’s the best (only) chance you’ve got! All the babies in your party left post when times got tough but you’ve hung in there and got the best deal for this country. The people will (might) back you.

Third update: the ECJ rules a Member State can unilaterally revoke Article 50. Good stuff. More dominoes down in our constitutional crisis.

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Haha ECJ is as corrupt as they come along with the cancerous EU.

Who says the EU don’t need U.K. now these corrupted fools have made this disgusting, anti-Democratic political ruling?

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If ever a sketch was needed for a clean Brexit, that one is it starring BoJo as Del Boy and Liam Fox as Rodney. :D

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A photo from yesterday’s march in London.

And there were shouts of “string them up” and “off with their heads” as UKIP’s leader criticised the government in address to the pro-Brexit march.

I don’t hear Remainers saying things like ‘traitors’ and ‘enemies of the state’...

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David Davis as Boycie, and Rees Mogg as Trigger.

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European Court of Justice rules UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50 and halt Brexit

https://news.sky.com/story/european-...rexit-11576865

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I wish they would just do that and forget this sorry mess.

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What’s anti-democratic about letting people change their minds?

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It is democratic in that a vote in parliament would still have to approve it. However I think they would need to extended the leave period and carry out a new referendum to be sure.

Many people will not want to leave now due to the mess of things.

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Are there any particular judges you would like to single out as being corrupt or is it a requirement of the role?

Here's a list of the judges - https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/Jo2_7026/en/
And their declared external activities - https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...0885-05_01.pdf

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Anyone denying that the Leave campaign is collectively the most corrupt part of this process is ignoring facts.

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Not as corrupt as the Remain campaign, who told many many lies and tried to portray this apocalyptic state, right after the leave vote.

They were just campaigns - I and along with millions of others did not need any influence to make my vote to leave the EU, the actual reason I voted to leave the EU, is because I do actually want to leave the corrupted EU!!!

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Yawn :zzz: - You really do have this habit of posting links, in poor defense of the EU.

I have no intention of visiting them - because guess what ?

NOT interested in reading about folk who won't have any jurisdiction in the UK, once democracy is respected and we do actually leave the EU in it's entirety.

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Think you might be disappointed Mick. Public opinion is changing all the time, and politicians are all too aware of it for their own selfish reasons

( And hate to mention it again, it's 'defence'. Unless your dream has come true and we've become another state of the US , wouldn't that be nice ;)
We're Europeans, even if we leave the EU, and always will be.)

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I'm confused. Surely you would prefer decisions like this to be made in the UK and not in Brussels?:confused:

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Damn you got there before me on that one.:D

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Is it because your head is lodged firmly up somewhere sound proof?

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Gollum star Andy Serkis releases hilarious Brexit deal parody of Theresa May

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...eases-13711513

:D

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Taking back control.

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Stop correcting me you are not the Punctuation/grammar/spelling police. I will not change how I spell something.

As for your point about Public opinion changing, that is FAKE NEWS.

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Typical Leaver response. Not remotely interested in anything that might challenge their beliefs.

I, on the other hand, am interested to hear about any concrete benefits to leaving the EU, but I do require some evidence they are likely to happen. Unfortunately, I have seen none, since before June 2016. I would argue there is none, because if there were, Theresa May would be using it to bolster her chances and her government, but she isn't.

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The best way to determine that is to have a referendum, with honest campaigns run on all sides.

Oddly, the leavers seem to be the ones that have a problem with that.

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Yes because we already bloody had one FFS!!! :mad:

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Typical response nothing - Maybe because I have made my mind up and no-one will ever change it. I want to leave the cancerous EU and that will never change or go away, you are very naive thinking if Brexit is stopped that us Brexiteers will just ride along - you've seen the Paris uprising - it will happen here, all because of selfish, anti-democratic people like you !!!

We already had a referendum, how many do you want until you pathetically get the result you want ?

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So you're not willing or able to answer my question on your allegations of corruption in the ECJ?

I posted the links in this case to help in singling out the corrupt judges in case a reminder was needed of who they are.

Posting references or citations (in this case links) has been drilled in to me as part of academic rigour for years and as a concept has been around since the time of Euclid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_citation :D )

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The only benefit to some people is a reduction in EU immigration but of course there are more non-EU citizens arriving here so overall it nearly remains the same as it was before.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...most-six-years

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Ignorance is bliss isn't it. :rolleyes:

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Leaving the EU will of course be the great panacea to end all our great ills and suddenly we will return to the great land of milk and honey and the days of empire and great influence in the world.

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*non-EU migration is the highest in more than a decade*

nothing to do with all the 'refugees' being taken in then? or are they classed as 'EU migration' because they traveled through numerous 'safe' countries to get here?

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I couldn’t fit in, as your head was blocking the way... ;)

Any examples of Remainers calling people traitors, enemies of the state, or saying "string them up" would be useful to prove me wrong - always willing to accept evidence showing me to be wrong, as we all learn from our mistakes.

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No, because EU migration only counts EU citizens.

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Still the same typical response, just phrased differently. As for the Paris uprising, are you sure? There was a major Pro-brexit protest yesterday in Central London. Apparently 3,000 pro-brexiters turned up. 15,000 anti-brexiters turned up. OK, so the weather was nicer in the summer, when 700,000 people turned up to the anti-brexit march, but surely the future of the country is a little more important than the weather?

So? We had a referendum in 1973 asking if we wanted to join the EU. Doesn't meant people didn't change their minds. Besides, since when has asking for a referendum for something been anti democratic? I just want people to have the choice, and be able to vote based on accurate information. Giving people a choice is surely the very essence of democracy? Denying them that choice because it may go against what you want is anti-democratic.

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Stop trying to invoke division with questions on who called who what and who started it. It is irrelevant to the topic of discussion.

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700,000 or 30,000 is that all that could be mustered up - come back when you can beat 17.4 Million and stop bloody saying typical, my views are MY own, if you do not like that - tough luck. :rolleyes:



No the losers vote is just that, you want to overturn the democratic result because you, the "spoilt brat" inside you and a large number of Remainers, did not like the result so you want another.

We had a choice and people voted to leave the EU.

And the naivety if you think accurate information will be passed around in more divisive campaigns it will just be a re-run of the lies from both sides.

We had a referendum - the UK voted to leave the EU and leave we must.

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No vote tomorrow. The Government cannot govern.

Tick tock.

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Utterly inevitable given if there was a vote it would be catastrophic for Theresa May and her minority government.

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It's pretty shambolic all this - lots of conflicting information saying vote is going ahead and then it is not but it's now crystal clear, Downing Street no longer knows what Downing Street is doing. :rolleyes:

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well at least it stops people screaming for a re-vote if it didn't go the way they wanted :D

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On that Mick we can agree.

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No we didn't.

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PM's statement is followed by a business statement from the Leader of the House, Andrea Leadsom.

And after that, a statement from Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay on Article 50.

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Maybe it's not the shambles that we think it is.

Let's go back to the referendum result, the one where the public voted to leave the EU.

After the result was in, Government, Business and Financial sectors should have started to make preparations for leaving the EU . . including the so called 'hard brexit'.

Instead they all sat around scratching their heads, looking uncomfortable and muttering 'well that didn't go how we thought it would'.

Then some bright spark decided the best way to deal with it was to fudge, obfuscate, manipulate, and spread dissent so that it all decended into a farce that would end with no brexit at all.

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vote pulled say sky news

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No doubt about that papa.

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PM's statement is followed by a business statement from the Leader of the House, Andrea Leadsom.

And after that, a statement from Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay on Article 50.

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gonna be a utter chaos week Den

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l thought this was a good tweet.

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pound falling as expected with this chaos

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Good move .... The more delay the better. Gets us closer to the end of March without the Brexit Express Getting derailed :)


Delay !! Delay !! Delay !!

It's Xmassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss :D

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A delay will just bring more arm twisting without any chance of success of course.

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On the contrary. The later we get without a coherent plan Parliament will step in.

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#strongandstable #easiestdealever #theyneedusmorethanweneedthem

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They can arm twist all they want Den .. They can even do some hip twisting as well and btw there has already been success.

When we voted to LEAVE the corrupt EU,That was success and as it stands at moment that's the direction we are still heading in. ;)

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Good point made in that tweet - others have called it kicking the tin can down the alley.

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The only direction we're heading is round in circles. :D

Re: Brexit
 

Nice dream dear ... :cool:

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Until i see headlines that say Brexit has been stopped then we are not heading round in circles we are heading in one direction and that's towards the end of march and our withdrawal :p: Come back and try again when that situation changes lol

Re: Brexit
 

You think they'll revoke article 50 if they do?

where's the best place to order 17 million yellow jackets from? ;) :naughty:

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l prefer to call it a maze where it is extremely hard to find a way out of it.

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oh I don't know Den, they're digging a deep enough hole :D

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I'l agree there Den the exit is hard but anyone that thought it was going to be easy was deluded but one thing for sure hard or not it's happening ;)

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Pound comes under pressure.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...b0b950d12f9f1f

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Why else do you think they are legislating on the basis that they are integral to the process?

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Someone somewhere will make a killing from that . . it won't be one of us :rolleyes:

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Good.

Cheaper exports. A falling pound improves the competitiveness of UK exporters.

Increases demand for domestic products. Imports are more expensive, therefore consumers are more likely to buy UK goods which increases UK aggregate demand.

A low Pound is beneficial in times of a recession, because it is helping to increase aggregate demand. In 1992, when the UK left the ERM, the pound depreciated and this helped the economy to recover.

The current account deficit should improve as the value of exports rises relative to the value of imports.

;)

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I think they’ll extend Article 50, it’s too early to revoke it.

You won’t need 17 million, death, those in care homes, the infirm and those who have changed their minds will reduce that number substantially.

Remember, the British public lack the revolutionary traits of our European neighbours. We just sit there and take our medicine when the establishment tells us like the good little girls we are.

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Yes us common folk will be bottom of the pile that is for sure.

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Yet the pound collapsed in 2016 and manufacturing is stalling?

It’s also only a sound economic theory if you have a significant manufacturing industry, and a tariff free market to sell into.

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I’m sure your man down the pub like Farage will have made something out of it. He usually does.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...beat-the-crash

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Is the UK the 5th largest economy in the world ?

An obvious way to convert this is to use market exchange rates—like those you use when going on holiday—to convert local currencies into dollars. Using this method, the size of the UK economy in 2016 was $2,629 billion . Doing the same for the rest of the world allows us to rank the size of all economies. This league table is shown below, with the UK the world’s 5th biggest economy on this measure, just ahead of France but behind Germany, Japan, China and the US.

https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-worl...rgest-economy/


Still not doing too bad thanks :)

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Of course he will as he will still be receiving his taxpayer-funded EU pension after Brexit.

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That link doesn’t demonstrate that the 2016 collapse of the pound has contributed to increased GDP in actual pounds sterling, you know the currency we are fighting to keep by leaving the demonic EU.

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Sorry Dear we are having an extended lunch since it's Xmass. There will be a delay and the Brexit thread will resume at 4PM :D

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This is from James Duddridge.

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6th now - we dropped mid 2017, just after that article was published.

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Stop calling me dear, it’s patronising and disrespectful.

Do hurry back, I’m not sure the thread will cope without your insight into the legislative process.

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Oh sorry i thought i saw someone call you Shirley .. My mistake Mate :p:

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Entertainingly there’s now an argument whether Theresa May can actually delay the vote, or whether that would rely on winning a vote to delay.

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I think they have the cast of spitting image making decisions at the min

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From the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ye-leadership/

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Thats because they are not carrying out what we asked for. The remain can't say stuff like that because there was a vote and the vote was leave not remain.

If the vote had gone remain yet the Gov decided to leave anyway how well do you think that would have gone down?

I really don't understand what those on the remain side don't get we asked to leave the EU it is pretty simple. It's been repeated so many times on this thread you could do a PHD on it.

Most leavers that I have seen across social media all say the same thing. We leave then broker a deal with the EU.

As it stands they hold all the cards, we have a remain PM who for some reason isn't listening to what the leavers want, her own party want and is just carrying on doing her own thing.

The only sorry I feel for May at the min is the vultures from all sides are waiting to take a piece out of her.

Re: Brexit
 

Two possibilities I guess:

1. The people on this thread are smarter and more intelligent than the army of diplomats, politicians and the civil service.
2. It might be harder to actually do the work on this issue than people on this thread expect.

Also remember all the people talking on here are not the ones accountable to the public if no deal doesn't go well. It's one thing to state something on the internet, it's another to be responsible for the welfare, jobs and future of 66 million people.

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Nobody is sneering at him, just noting that economically he will be relatively unaffected by the consequences of a leave vote.

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You seem to be assuming that we manufacture a lot of things. You also appear to be assuming that all or most of those things use a lot of parts made in the UK. Unfortunately, business people like James Dyson (arch Brexiteer) have been working hard ensuring all their manufacturing is outsourced to companies outside the UK (usually in China, or in the case of Dyson, Malaysia). In the case of someone like Dyson, the rising cost of importing is likely to mean the cost of exporting and to the consumer will go UP. This does, admittedly, depend if the've established a local subsidiary to handle the sales. However, a lot of UK manufactured goods rely on parts imported to UK the UK. The costs of those parts will go up, which will also drive the cost of the manufactured goods up.

You compare the situation now to the situation before we left the ERM, but you haven't factored in that we've had 30 years of businesses doing their utmost to outsource costly things like manufacturing and storage, with the tacit encouragement of the government of the time (both Labour and Tory). The economy was still heavily manufacturing based at that time. It's not now.

Re: Brexit
 

l am not sneering at him as l am just pointing out the hypocrite that he is.

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Rubbish its a fact so get over it..

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I think you like a lot of people seem to think we don't make anything anymore...

You're wrong

Some light reading for you: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/0...uring_figures/

And a chart for the hard of thinking. That's the Index of Production - our manufacturing base - failing to 'collapse'. The fact that we've also grown as global leaders in financial services does not mean that industry has gone away

Re: Brexit
 

If May can get a 'legally-binding assurance' we won't be trapped in backstop indefinitely, then there is every chance that the withdrawal deal will be passed.

Business will have 2 yrs to prepare for full Brexit, the Government 2yrs to conclude a deal with the EU going forward.

It is the backstop that all are objecting to especially as it needs the agreement of the 27 to withdraw it.

She should have the vote tomorrow, lose it and go back to Brussels and get a time limited backstop of perhaps 1yr.

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Agreed.

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Agreed +2, backstop is the big elephant in the room

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An article from 2010 isn’t really helpful with analysis of post 2016 GDP.

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Why would the EU concede any of this?

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None of which negates my point that the economy is no longer manufacturing based. It's also worth remembering that a lot of UK produced goods rely on imported parts, so prices will have to rise in line with the cost of those parts.

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80% of UK economy is services

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The problem then is that's it's not a backstop. The backstop is designed to kick in if all else falls and the deadline has been reached. Otherwise we're covered by the transition period. You at the very least would need to be generous with the length of the backstop to account for delays in coming to a permanent future arrangement.

Maybe the backstop is a joint arrangement for x amount of years before it defaults to Parliament.

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This is from the Telegraph’s Steven Swinford.

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Doubt it. We have to pay that anyway.

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Quite a lot of anger among cabinet ministers about defending the PM's position this morning after various ministers were sent out to insist the vote was going ahead while No10 knew this was not the case.

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And I don't think Theresa May is in a position where she can afford to anger her cabinet.

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Indeed but her enemies are increasingly all around her waiting for the right moment to stick their knives in to end her premiership.

Just watching the House of Commons speech and Priti Patel and Boris Johnson are sitting in the backrow at the far end of Commons muttering and head-shaking at almost everything Theresa May says

Re: Brexit
 

I'm not saying they will.

The backstop if used would prevent us from reaching or own deals with other countries. I for one am not willing to keep ourselves bound to the EU for any longer. If no deal is reached with the EU after 3yrs then we leave with no deal.

Business will have had 5yrs from the referendum to prepare if they haven't then they only have themselves to blame for burying their heads in the sand.

I would prefer if we were leaving in March with no deal.

Re: Brexit