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-   -   Brexit discussion (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33705369)

Mick 10-11-2017 22:37
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35924402)
It'll be the Brexiters whinging for 42 years about not getting the type of Brexit they wanted. i.e. the one where everyone lives happily ever after. It'll be the fault of May/Corbyn/Remoaners/immigrants, take your pick from that days edition of the Daily Fail !
So you do read it then... You’re doing something more than me. (Coz I don’t do at all). ;)

When they made Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, I really did not think there could be someone as depressing as the robot Marvin in real life.....



:rofl:

Mr K 10-11-2017 22:41
Re: Brexit discussion
 
That's not even the proper original BBC Marvin ! Far too happy. ;)

(And sorry, I know you're a Daily Express fan !)

Mick 10-11-2017 23:00
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35924404)
That's not even the proper original BBC Marvin ! Far too happy. ;)

(And sorry, I know you're a Daily Express fan !)

1andrew1 10-11-2017 23:06
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35924402)
It'll be the Brexiters whinging for 42 years about not getting the type of Brexit they wanted. i.e. the one where everyone lives happily ever after. It'll be the fault of May/Corbyn/Remoaners/immigrants, take your pick from that days edition of the Daily Fail !
It'll be the EU for giving us a bad deal, no doubt about that, plus those people named above.
St BoJo and the other Brexit daydreamers won't be to blame.

Osem 10-11-2017 23:33
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35924401)
I can assure you, I have not spent the last 40+ years complaining of the EU, maybe the last 5-10.
Correct because the EEC was very different from the EU but then again some folks can't accept that just like they can't accept being losers.

jonbxx 11-11-2017 09:29
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35924401)
I can assure you, I have not spent the last 40+ years complaining of the EU, maybe the last 5-10.
What changed your mind in the last 5-10 years? I see Bulgaria and Romania joined in 2007 and the Treaty of Lisbon came in to force in 2009. Croatia joined in 2013 but there’s nothing huge like the Maastricht Treaty.

In an alternate universe, what changes in the last 5-10 years would you roll back to make remaining a more palatable choice?

---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35924411)
Correct because the EEC was very different from the EU but then again some folks can't accept that just like they can't accept being losers.
Of course the EEC changed over the years, evolving with the agreement of the member nations, that’s obvious.

I for one accept the result of the referendum. Am I happy about leaving the EU? No, nothing has changed my mind about membership of the EU being a good thing but I like to think I am grown up enough to accept leaving. However, we are now in a different phase where we need to hold HMG to account and give us an orderly Brexit that does the minimum amount of harm to the UK.

This country has brilliant people, we make and do great things. Nissan in Sunderland for example is regarded by Nissan as one of its best factories. If we remove the possibility of doing frictionless trade with the rest of the EU, this would have a significant impact on their manufacturing processes and Nissan would need to make a decision on this.

I think we tend to work through life thinking ‘everything’s going to be alright’ and we can trust our government to do right by us but with Brexit, I feel the priority is to keep the Conservative parties many factions together is more important than serving the country (see Boris Johnson still having a job right now)

1andrew1 11-11-2017 11:34
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35924439)
What changed your mind in the last 5-10 years? I see Bulgaria and Romania joined in 2007 and the Treaty of Lisbon came in to force in 2009. Croatia joined in 2013 but there’s nothing huge like the Maastricht Treaty.

In an alternate universe, what changes in the last 5-10 years would you roll back to make remaining a more palatable choice?

---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 ----------



Of course the EEC changed over the years, evolving with the agreement of the member nations, that’s obvious.

I for one accept the result of the referendum. Am I happy about leaving the EU? No, nothing has changed my mind about membership of the EU being a good thing but I like to think I am grown up enough to accept leaving. However, we are now in a different phase where we need to hold HMG to account and give us an orderly Brexit that does the minimum amount of harm to the UK.

This country has brilliant people, we make and do great things. Nissan in Sunderland for example is regarded by Nissan as one of its best factories. If we remove the possibility of doing frictionless trade with the rest of the EU, this would have a significant impact on their manufacturing processes and Nissan would need to make a decision on this.

I think we tend to work through life thinking ‘everything’s going to be alright’ and we can trust our government to do right by us but with Brexit, I feel the priority is to keep the Conservative parties many factions together is more important than serving the country (see Boris Johnson still having a job right now)
To me, the main changes have been:
- the increase in trade deals with the rest of the worls making the EU the largest trading bloc to have third-country deals. It's been a massive advocate of free trade and this has led to lots of restructuring across the EU but ultimately economic growth in place of stagnation.
- enlargement eastwards which was a key British policy to contain Russia and promote Western values. The link with freedom of movement and the sudden impact of people moving to the UK was a consequence of a move championed by the UK with ironic consequences.

You raise a good question of Mick and I would like to see what changes he's been against.

pip08456 11-11-2017 12:23
Re: Brexit discussion
 
1andrew1 and Mr K may find this a good read.

Link

Quote:
Europe can be cynical when its interests are at stake. This goes for the policy of enlarging the EU, even if that hasn’t been acknowledged: there’s no question of starting new accession procedures with any outside country. The union of 28 (soon 27) wants a pause. Turkey, Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Macedonia, Bosnia and Kosovo may face a long wait.

Since the union seems less able to defend democracy and human rights, what message is it sending beyond its borders? What is it for? Is it just there to protect its own societies from the perils of the outside world? If so, that is short-sighted. After all, the dangers to the EU are not just external, as Brexit and the rollback of freedom in eastern Europe have amply demonstrated.

Mr K 11-11-2017 12:36
Re: Brexit discussion
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8049391.html
Quote:
Cornwall appeals to government as crops ‘rot in fields’ due to shortage in migrant labour after Brexit

The local council authority in the region, which voted strongly to leave the EU, says it is concerned by 'a sharp fall in the number of EU workers.
As well as the migrant workers crisis, what's also sad is the areas that were strongly for Brexit (SW & NE), benefited most from EU grants and funding. If they think the Govt. will be pouring a similar amount of cash into these area they are in for a shock.

The new UK will be a more extreme version of the already affluent overcrowded SE of England vs the rest of the country. All's gone very quiet on the northern powerhouse and many electrified rail lines in the north have been cancelled. Meanwhile crossrail etc. gets unlimited investment.

(at least we'll have the satisfaction that the SE will be the first to go under with rising sea levels ;) )

jonbxx 11-11-2017 13:10
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35924475)
1andrew1 and Mr K may find this a good read.

Link
I know it wasn’t aimed at me but that was an interesting article, thank you. I am not sure how the conclusion that the EU is less able to defend democracy and human rights within its borders was reached but maybe I am missing something.

It was interesting the point about inequality and the EU having little or no influence, especially after looking at this study http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...raphic-divide/ which appears to show some correlation between inequality and voting leave or remain

Mr K 11-11-2017 22:47
Re: Brexit discussion
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard
Quote:
Theresa May faces a devastating Commons defeat over Brexit within weeks if she continues to deny parliament a meaningful vote on the final deal with the EU, Tory and Labour MPs have warned.

With the withdrawal bill returning to the Commons on Tuesday, a cross-party group who oppose a hard Brexit and are co-operating on tactics say they believe they have the numbers to defeat the government if they are denied such a vote.

While the critical amendments and closest votes are not expected to be taken until next month, Tories who oppose a hard Brexit insist there is no softening of their position and that they are biding their time ready to strike before Christmas.

Some Tories say they are even more determined to insist on parliament’s right to veto a bad or no deal because the prime minister appears not to have responded to any of their concerns over recent weeks.
At least there are some Tories prepared to act for the good of the country.

pip08456 11-11-2017 23:45
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35924564)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard


At least there are some Tories prepared to act for the good of the country.
Of course removing the threat of the UK walking away with no deal empowering the EU to push for a more punitive deal is certainly good for the country.

1andrew1 12-11-2017 00:54
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35924564)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

At least there are some Tories prepared to act for the good of the country.
It's good that on the eve of Remembrance Sunday, some Tories are able to put country before party.:tu:

Mick 12-11-2017 02:48
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35924581)
It's good that on the eve of Remembrance Sunday, some Tories are able to put country before party.:tu:
I’m skeptical of the story, due to it being in a Remoaner gutter rag, but let’s say those Remoaning MPs trying scupper Brexit, are not putting Country first at all, they’re destroying a democratic decision, which will have far reaching implications in that it will force people to choose to never vote again, and that is not good for any country, anyone who says otherwise is delusional and undemocratic.

denphone 12-11-2017 07:15
Re: Brexit discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35924586)
I’m skeptical of the story, due to it being in a Remoaner gutter rag, but let’s say those Remoaning MPs trying scupper Brexit, are not putting Country first at all, they’re destroying a democratic decision, which will have far reaching implications in that it will force people to choose to never vote again, and that is not good for any country, anyone who says otherwise is delusional and undemocratic.
Perhaps this "rag" will suit your tastes better as l myself did not vote for Brexit but l accepted the result but what l don't accept is the utter dysfunctional chaos that has played in HMG since then and if one does not see that then one is blind to it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...t-go-kkg3w6l89


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