Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Well if, as now seems increasingly likely, we get an EU deal, there will be no problem for Biden in approving a US/UK deal. The border would no longer be an issue.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The EU is the next US President's focus, not the smaller UK. Hopefully, BoJo will get to meet Biden as they probably agree on more policies than BoJo and Trump did, despite Trump labelling BoJo as the "British Trump".

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

Don't know if this legislation being sent back by the House of Lords means this court case can end?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...rtan-ntp-feeds

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

A big if.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Not as big as you like to make out, jfman.

However, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, tick tock et al...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Mixed news today.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1554424.html

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You’ve just contradicted your own optimism there, OB.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Er, we don’t know who the next president is yet!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It will be Biden.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

He's just the Trojan Horse.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It’ll be interesting to see the battle for power in a Biden White House. Unfortunately, I’m inclined to agree with Mick that there’s something in his decline, and it’s really sad that the Democrats literally had no alternative.

I think some videos are clearly exaggerated or twisted. And if you put a camera on someone so many hours a day on the road they’ll have moments. But it’s not all down to that.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

They'll be members long before then, 12 million of them were on their way before the brexit vote, wonder what happened to them, did they get lost

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

As if the US election results weren't gripping enough, more news on Brexit promised tomorrow! ;)
https://www.ft.com/content/4e3ed438-21fa-40e9-90d5-fe5u businessd73a2a629

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Do we postpone the call if Biden isn't quite over the line and cling on in the hope Trump wins 5 separate legal challenges?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

That FT link is broken.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Here you go Chris.

https://www.ft.com/content/4e3ed438-...5-fe5d73a2a629

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

They've not spoken on the phone yet. Once that occurs, expect some news on the next steps.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Not even 9am yet, Seph. Watch this space!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Seems Boris backed the wrong horse in the US election.
The EU will the priority for them now.

'Boris who ? ' will be the answer when he makes his grovelling call to the new President.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Boris's weakness (well one of them) is the label of British Trump. He needs to turn this into a strength and call Trump who has not been seen since Thursday's 17-minute demented ramble and tell him to lay off the straw-clutching court cases and spin him a yarn about this impeding his 2024 re-election chances.

But I also doubt Trump will listen. And I suspect the President Elect will be "Biden" his time to speak to Boris until he's at least spoken to Micheál Martin, Angela Merkel, and Emmanuel Macron. ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Yes I'm sure he'll do that Andrew ! Trump would ignore him anyway. Boris was a little 'mini me' on the other side of pond that he could combine with a golfing/Buck Palace trip.
Farage has gone very quiet maybe he's the man to tell the President ? Best of luck Nigel.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I don't think Biden will have much say in things, all the clever eyes & ears will be on the VP, Ms Kamala Harris . . . President withing 6 months ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Yep in six moths time joe will be dribbling soup down his dressing gown in an old folks home.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It would be kind for the President to go visit Trump in his new residence and feed him. ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

To be fair when the new president looks in the mirror he says "Joe who". I've never really got the fascination with the US deal, they were never going to give us one quickly or even at all regardless of who was in charge, it's not a priority for democrats and while donny might not include NHS access in it he was never going to let American farmers miss out on the opportunity of selling their unlabled crap to unsuspecting people over here

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

We’ll see what president Harris does in 2022.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

These things aren't decided by how much the President likes you but the strength of both countries in those agreements and the corporate interests pushing on their respective Governments.

Biden and the House of Representatives will be looking out for the United States. Trump wouldn't have been any different.

I personally still think Biden is better for the Tories because he is more predictable. He'll leave most of it to his advisors, he won't suddenly have a change of heart about something and risk the existing talks, he won't spout off on Twitter.

And putting aside Brexit Biden is more in tune with the Government on most other things. They are likely to be more aligned on most foreign policy and their approaches on the Security Council and the G7. More sceptical of Russia. Pro-NATO. He'll rejoin the Paris accords.

Simply put he is more likely to be more engaged with the rest of the world and an America which is more engaged with the rest of the world is better for Britain.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I think you mean 2025. It's Biden from 2021-2024. ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I don't think he does.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You clearly don't understand the speed of the progress of dementia.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Neither do you. Vascular dementia can plateau for ages then deteriorate. Not that Biden has been diagnosed with anything apart from being old and mostly overcoming a life long stutter.

However President Harris would be even better, she's far more talented than either of the main candidates, and the right side of 70.

Anyway back to Brexit before we get told off ... ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Off. ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

What a load of bollox, I wonder how much he charges for these speeches.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/09/boris...feat-13567136/

Another U turn on the way. He can ignore the House of Lords but he won't be able to ignore President Joe if he wants a trade deal. He needs another big news day to bury yet another U turn, like he did for the school meals one...

The EU are taking us to court too. That's nice...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

John who?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

This guy

https://www.express.co.uk/videos/522...larious-sketch

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It's not Boris doing the U-Turn though is it, he'd gladly let it go through, it's the other buggers (again) doing all the disruptive stuff :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Taking back control...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Why is Mr Grey sticking his opinion in where it doesn't matter.


Sorry I mean JM,

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Because he wants the big bucks for talking bollox!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Contender for 'answer of the week' :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Because he’s the longest serving Tory PM of the last 30 years?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

But he isn't dealing with 2 huge problems requiring immediate attention where there isn't consensus on how to proceed either in parliament nor the wider population.

Boris is trying to herd feral cats while blindfolded, one arm tied behind his back and a pack of dogs running around lose trying to excite things up.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

None of that is reason to not permit a previous Prime Ministers to speak his mind.

And Boris chose to have two problems to deal with - I've consistently said he should have had requested a one-year extension to Brexit for this very reason.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You know he's talking piffle when even Cameron attacks him:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'm not sure David the Shed Cameron was a better Prime Minister than John Major.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

He could't have been any worse. Only May managed that.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

tbf, he let the cats loose, put the blindfold on himself, and insisted that it was tied really tightly, whilst having tied a pack of sausages to his belt... ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Seems a bit of a mess.
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/sta...744192/photo/2

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Nice try Andrew. The letter also states there is a viable alternative which is currently in use.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Always on the lookout for the positives, Andrew. ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Start looking at it? Only a few weeks to go.

---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 15:54 ----------

Please do list them.

The only one I've heard is that Scotland will be likely to gain its independence, although it's not something I'm particularly keen on.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

There’s some signs the summer flirtation with separatism is fading ... Yougov gave yes 51% this morning, down 2 on their previous. Rallying round the flag lasted longer in Scotland than in England but perhaps lockdown 2 is concentrating the minds a bit.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I suspect that once we start to enjoy the fruits of Brexit, that figure will alter. ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Much depends on what the fruits look like ;)

I agree if things look messy for a couple of months early next year then that figure might rise again.

Conversely, however, if Brexit post transition is difficult it will seriously dent separatist claims that breaking the union would be easy (as Alex Salmond implausibly suggested in 2014).

But we digress.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Looks like the Vote Leave gang in the government won't be left for too long.
https://www.ft.com/content/de6cd591-...f-c44eea37e1aa

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1605261667

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54925322

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Ha ha.

Despite his many failings, he got a couple of things right:

https://news.sky.com/story/dominic-c...bered-12130906

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Dom leaving Downing Street Christmas Eve...

https://i.makeagif.com/save/H6hm_g

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It'll be through the roof after the Serbia game.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

:D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Bit of a lack of self-awareness going on here! :dunce:

China is breaking Hong Kong treaty with UK, says Dominic Raab

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Really? Where have we actually broken a treaty?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

EM the EU treaty for a start if the EU tried changing it you would never ever stop complaining about it and i would agree if they did but because it uk doing it all is great right

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Which EU treaty has the UK broken?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-agreement-act

The NI protocol is in the Withdrawal Agreement and the Internal Market Bill is changing it by unilateral action.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Nice try. I've not said we have yet.

The proposed Internal Market Bill enables this to happen which undermines any attack the UK makes on China for breaking a treaty wth the UK.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The treaty is not broken until the action has been taken. To date no action has been taken so no treaty broken.

---------- Post added at 14:30 ---------- Previous post was at 14:27 ----------

As I was quoting someone else that reply was obviously aimed at you.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

This is your reply to me:
My response is:
Nice try. I've not said we have yet.

The proposed Internal Market Bill enables this to happen which undermines any attack the UK makes on China for breaking a treaty with the UK.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I find myself in agreement.

AS an aside, I'm a bit more hopeful about the governance of the country following the recent departures in BoJo's team. It's been a rocky term so far with a lowlight being Cummings' press conference in the No 10 Rose Garden but hopefully BoJo can get a better administration in place for 2021.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I understand Dom has left instructions for the next 2 years

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Yes, "Don't panic!" :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

More likely "so long, suckers - I've got mine!"

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The thought of selling NI down the road for a 'true' Brexit is probably more than Bozza can handle, particularly with President Biden leaning on him in the background. Looks like Dom and Lee couldn't stomach what they see as a sell out deal with the EU - strange because pretty much everyone else could see the only possible endgame with Donald gone. Good riddance to bad rubbish as they say.

Bozza has form for flip flopping his position on the EU - maybe he's realised there's still time for one more flip (or is it a flop??).

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

EU no longer the World's largest trading bloc. And more evidence that World trade is orienting towards such blocs.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54949260

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I’d love to be part of a trading bloc. But the EU isn’t just a trading bloc is it?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

And that is precisely the point of Brexit. The EU was sold to British voters as “the common market” in 1975 but it was more than that even then. It would be shocking if anyone participating in this discussion were still to be labouring under the illusion that the EU is a trading bloc. It certainly doesn’t describe itself in those terms.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

https://www.mofa.go.jp/files/100114853.pdf

The term 'Level Playing Field' doesn't appear in the RCEP.
The nearest I can find is what is quoted above.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Yeah, that's why India pulled out of the agreement last year. They were concerned about dumping from China

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Indeed, it's got other functions too.

As countries trade closely together in a trading bloc, it's inevitable that they will become closer so it will be fascinating to watch how these new trading blocs develop compared to the EU and other trading blocs. They may act to demonstrate how a different model can be as successful as the EU has been.

On another note, I'd love a Canada-style deal with...Canada. At the moment, that seems unlikely to happen soon.

---------- Post added at 11:18 ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 ----------

I can see why the absence of a level playing field in the agreement would prevent countries signing up to it. In this instance, I also note that India and China are not on friendly terms due to a border dispute so this is a factor too.
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/10/0...bulent-future/

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You are fundamentally misunderstanding the whole purpose of the European project, which was to bind France and Germany so tightly together that it would be impossible for either of them to start another war. They always were, and remain, at the heart of something that was never, from day one, supposed to be just a trading bloc. French agriculture and German manufacturing were intended to create a symbiosis between the two countries and the ties were always intended to become political. Inevitably the rest of the continent has been drawn in to this and as long as they understand what they are in and assent to it that’s their business.

If after all the arguing and debating over the EU on this forum and in other places, you still don’t get this basic point, you’re never really going to understand why some of us campaigned against U.K. membership of the EU for decades and why we remain deaf to complaints about short (or even medium term) disruption to our trading patterns. Involvement in the EU isn’t about cheap out-of-season strawberries, tulips from Amsterdam or our ability to export cheese. What it is about is the ability to determine British laws and international treaties in our national interest. This is why fishing rights have become such a massive issue despite their modest economic impact. The right to control who fishes in our exclusive economic zone is a highly visible symbol of our departure from a system that is designed, in the long run, to create a single federal territory.

It is vanishingly unlikely that RCEP or indeed NAFTA or Mercosur will ever get anywhere near the level of integration the EU has today, because that is not the objective of any of those organisations.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Well said. :clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The EU states that it is the "Largest trade block in the world." Of course, it is more than just a trading bloc and no one is pretending otherwise, not the EU or me, certainly. Numerous people have discussed its evolution in this and other threads. People like Pierre and I weighed all this up at the time and decided that it was in the country's best interests to remain.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Whilst we agree on its foundation it’s evolved significantly over time and the UK has contributed significantly to it – eg Single Market, State Aid Rules, etc. Seeing it through the lens of a post-war settlement was right once but a more 360 approach is needed in the 21st Century.

I’m not going to speculate on people’s motives for campaigning against EU membership. But to pretend that not being a member results in only short or medium term economic disruption ignores the gravity of trade and the move towards economic blocs. We’re talking about a long-term reduction in our country’s wealth as well as a short-term reduction in the wealth of the country – acknowledged by Dominic Cummings as being more than the entire contributions that the UK has paid into the EU.

By not being in the bloc, our global influence is also weakened, and that’s assuming the UK remains intact and Scotland and Northern Ireland don’t go their respective ways. Brexit plus We might be able to talk about sovereignty, and for sure, we will probably have control of our fishing waters which contribute less than 1% of GDP. I would venture that’s not just modest, but exceedingly modest! But ultimately, the UK will come down to becoming a rule-taker or not taking part in World trade. The lack of trade deals we have been able to sign demonstrates this.

Agreed, which is why I said it will be interesting to see how the new bloc develops over time. It will be helpful to have a comparison to the EU which has hitherto been the largest trading bloc.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Well they say love is blind:)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Meaningless figures of course.
An overall GDP figure is meaningless. Although it has more of a meaning a GDP per person doesn't necessarily represent the full picture.
What really matters is how much each household has spare to spend on produce from other countries.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

How do they know how much we have spare, and whether we want to spend it on foreign crap (not that there's much choice) :dozey:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Most of the fish caught in British waters goes to the EU because the fish we prefer to eat like cod and haddock comes from the waters around Iceland and Norway. Now the country's fishing leaders have belatedly written to Environment Secretary George Eustice pointing out how leaving the EU will impact the sector.
The BBC's Martyn Oates has shared the letter and spoken with some of the unhappy fishermen.
https://twitter.com/bbcmartynoates/s...60370091323392

https://twitter.com/bbcmartynoates/s...495744/photo/1
https://twitter.com/bbcmartynoates/s...901952/photo/1

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

BREAKING: Michel Barnier has announced that one of his negotiations team members has tested positive for Covid-19, meaning the talks on trade relations will be delayed.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Delaying tactic because they are losing their arguments?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

They've maybe learnt a trick or two watching Boris Johnson and Trump.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Its the UK Govt. that seem to be cacking themselves at the prospect talks stopping.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...land-lockdown/

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

:D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20