Cable Forum - Brexit (Old)

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As per the TV news, Moggy looks like he might be prepared to support a reformed deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35980554)

This has been fully covered already, though I suspect you're now just being naughty ��

Chris made an interesting point in a different thread about Scottish independence ie that Salmond had said in 2013 that Scottish independence could be achieved 18 months after a referenfum win.

Brexit has shown how complicated these things actually are in reality.

I've heard one or two people say that they are leavers at heart, but they essentially believe that we are now so ingrained into the EU that it will be impossible to leave (at least completely).

Wasn't VAT introduced to pay for our contribution to the EU? If we leave and no longer have to pay into the EU every year, is there a case for abolishing this?

No, only a part of VAT pays for membership. There will be a case for reducing it though.

We had purchase tax before VAT.

Sorry to contradict pip (it's rare) - VAT was introduced as a Purchase Tax replacement because we were joining the EEC and it was a requirement to shave off 2% (iIrC) for the EEC's share.

---------- Post added at 07:36 ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 ----------

I sometimes get mocked for my remarks on German hegemony; less so on my remarks a France being Germany's running dog.

Well, the Running Dog and the Ueber-meister des Welts have now signed a treaty that pretty much entrenches the hegemony to which I have been referring.

Will the Remainers on this thread welcome this enhanced piece of hegemony? Nah, they'll continue mocking me most likely.

---------- Post added at 08:11 ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35980412)

To somewhere OUTSIDE the Eurozone. So how does that work?

In relation to Dyson moving to Singapore:

1/
He expressed his opinion on the Euro in 2000 when it was a newly introduced currency (indeed then only a virtual currency). To remind, Dyson threatened to move production from the UK if it did not commit to joining the Euro.

2/
Some of us (readers of the Torygraph and FT for sure) understood at the time that the exchange rate basket favoured Germany because the likes of Greece, Italy and Portugal had their deficits fudged which gave Germany an advantage when the final Euro value was declared.

3/
Much water has passed under the bridge (see Greece for details and now Italy) and I doubt that Dyson would be as sanguine now about the Euro, 19 years later. Indeed the UK's stand-off from the Euro proved most valuable in 2008 (when we lent those now perfidious Irish £7 billion to bale them out). So the Eurozone is no longer attractive to Dyson.

It seems to me that if Dyson has moved production to Singapore, then why not move the HQ to put his company in the best place for expansion into the local markets now that he is well established in Europe. Dyson's move says more about the EU's failures than Brexit.

https://www.manufacturingglobal.com/...itting-ps801mn

So all this hysteric stuff (not by Nomadking but by the usual suspects) about Dyson cutting & running away from Brexit or words to that effect are ridiculous, posturing hot air.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35980567)

Sorry to contradict pip (it's rare) - VAT was introduced as a Purchase Tax replacement[colour]

We had purchase tax before VAT.[colour]

because we were joining the EEC and it was a requirement to shave off 2% (iIrC) for the EEC's share.

No, only a part of VAT pays for membership.

---------- Post added at 07:36 ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 ----------

I'm looking for the contradiction.

So, apparently the latest wheeze from the ERG (you know, the ‘we need to restore Parliamentary Sovereignty’ chaps and chapesses) is to propose to suspend Parliament.

Cognitive dissonance, much?

Well seeing as remainer MPs seem to be using every trick in the parliamentary book to frustrate Brexit, time for the leave supporters to have a wheeze of their own. :D

Interesting article explaining the problems with leaving in the timescale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35980580)

Well seeeing a remainer MPs seem to be using every trick in the parliamentary book to frustrate Brexit, time for the leave supporters to have a wheeze of their own. :D

l think that tells you a lot about some of our parliamentary MP's.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35980571)

I'm looking for the contradiction.

It depends on whether your "No"! response applied to Richard's 1st question or 2nd question!

---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35980579)

So, apparently the latest wheeze from the ERG (you know, the ‘we need to restore Parliamentary Sovereignty’ chaps and chapesses) is to propose to suspend Parliament.

Cognitive dissonance, much?

The tricks that both sides are up to are in the name of "democracy".

Someone's going to come out on top. I appreciate that everyone's divided on the question of Brexit itself, but I subscribe to the democratic wing that says the Referendum result must be delivered, including no deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35980579)

So, apparently the latest wheeze from the ERG (you know, the ‘we need to restore Parliamentary Sovereignty’ chaps and chapesses) is to propose to suspend Parliament.

Cognitive dissonance, much?

It's going to be branded as the peoples shutdown to make it appear democratic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35980579)

So, apparently the latest wheeze from the ERG (you know, the ‘we need to restore Parliamentary Sovereignty’ chaps and chapesses) is to propose to suspend Parliament.

Cognitive dissonance, much?

It would be drastic, but on the other hand, there is presently a balance between the legislature and the executive which allows both to function smoothly. It is maintained by procedures and precedent. Certain parliamentarians, aided by the Speaker, are tinkering with it, with little regard for the long-term consequences, one of which is the risk of a straight confrontation between the power of the Crown and of Parliament. We really don’t want to go there, which is a major reason why those precedents are, and should be, left well alone.

Quite a few of your posts lately appear to be wilfully misrepresenting quite complex constitutional issues that I suspect you’re well aware can’t usefully be summed up in one sentence... :erm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980589)

Why not get rid of parliament and elections too, and just have one government that knows best forever....

All getting a bit desperate now 'our Brexit is being stolen from us' isn't it ?? Quite frankly, it would be the best robbery ever :D

See Airbus may take their wings elsewhere too, as well as Dyson.

Quote:

European planemaker Airbus has warned that it could move wing-building out of the UK in the future if there is a no-deal Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46984229

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35980579)

So, apparently the latest wheeze from the ERG (you know, the ‘we need to restore Parliamentary Sovereignty’ chaps and chapesses) is to propose to suspend Parliament.

Cognitive dissonance, much?

Hugh - you seriously need to lose this consistent irritating and flippant attitude.

As usual, you're getting things in a muddle again, probably due to too much reliance on Google surfing no doubt.

There would be nothing apparent with proroguing of Parliament, as the Queen is the Constitutional Reigning and Sovereign Monarch, Head of State of the Common Wealth.

A really interesting video about examining the paradox in Wales where areas voted to Leave when they were net recipients of EU funds:

---------- Post added at 11:43 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980589)

wilfully misrepresenting quite complex constitutional issues that I suspect you’re well aware can’t usefully be summed up in one sentence... :erm:

Bit like the question to Leave, eh? ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35980597)

A really interesting video about examining the paradox in Wales where areas voted to Leave when they were net recipients of EU funds:

They are not EU Funds - they are OUR funds which they then distribute back to the UK.

We are a NET Contributor, in other words we put more in than we get out - you do know what that means, yeah ?

It's like you giving me £500, I then give you £200 of it back and then have the cheek to tell you what to buy with it.

---------- Post added at 11:46 ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35980597)

Bit like the question to Leave, eh? ;)

Nope that was not a complex question - at all.

Leave meant leaving. :rolleyes: