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mrmistoffelees 28-09-2019 22:16
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012088)
What a ridiculous statement! Parliament is normally in recess for the party conferences. To try to put on an important debate and vote on a day that clashes with the CPC is undemocratic and certainly indicates why Boris wanted to prorogue Parliament. He should do it again, given these snide moves.

The opposition are scared witless of the Conservative Party Conference as the public will then see clearly that the Conservative Party are the only party that is fit to take office. With a good majority, we will all be able to put this nonsense behind us. Hung parliaments are not good for the country as you cannot get decisions through with a determined opposition.

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------



What, the time is right when the Conservatives are absent? Why could they not wait until Thursday? It is very clear the game they are playing. The public will not be impressed.
Boris is so hard done by.... Boo Hoo

You're clutching at straws with this one. In the grand scheme of things the public wont even give this particular item a 2nd thought when the time comes at the Ballot box.

Boris could have played fair with parliament he chose not too, he can hardly play the victim when the tables have been turned.

jfman 28-09-2019 22:24
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012088)
What a ridiculous statement! Parliament is normally in recess for the party conferences. To try to put on an important debate and vote on a day that clashes with the CPC is undemocratic and certainly indicates why Boris wanted to prorogue Parliament. He should do it again, given these snide moves.

The opposition are scared witless of the Conservative Party Conference as the public will then see clearly that the Conservative Party are the only party that is fit to take office. With a good majority, we will all be able to put this nonsense behind us. Hung parliaments are not good for the country as you cannot get decisions through with a determined opposition.

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------



What, the time is right when the Conservatives are absent? Why could they not wait until Thursday? It is very clear the game they are playing. The public will not be impressed.
So they couldn’t come back?

Your claim is preposterous and you know it. It’s essentially trolling to know you are in the wrong yet peddle flawed discussion lines continuously.

If there’s a VONC on Wednesday they’ll be told the day before and can make arrangements to attend. Boris wants to lose a VONC. Jeremy asks for an extension and Boris gets his election.

1andrew1 29-09-2019 09:46
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36012090)
I'm sure others will chime in on your remark. Had there been a normal conference recess period, nothing would have happened to disrupt the CPC. Boris' miscalculated prorogation is the cause of this part of the mess that is Parliament.

And I'm still a Conservative Party member.
Spot on. You play with fire, you get burnt.

---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36012070)
Nothing in that about Wednesday.
Is the Wednesday vote a possible scenario and no more, then?

Sephiroth 29-09-2019 09:58
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
One of the things that gets to me beyond the arrogance of Parliament in the face of the Referendum, is that Boris was overwhelmingly elected to be Tory leader by the party membership; yet c. 20 Tory rebels can't accept that either, causing Boris to act recklessly with the Constitution.

But now that Boris has withdrawn the whip from 21 MPs, they won't be there when he needs them.

Moving on from that, those Tory traitors (for that's what they are) have supported the aptly named "Surrender Act" which puts our immediate future into the hands of the EU who can determine the extension period if any. "Traitor" is an apt word in both senses.

Hugh 29-09-2019 10:13
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36012111)
One of the things that gets to me beyond the arrogance of Parliament in the face of the Referendum, is that Boris was overwhelmingly elected to be Tory leader by the party membership; yet c. 20 Tory rebels can't accept that either, causing Boris to act recklessly with the Constitution.

But now that Boris has withdrawn the whip from 21 MPs, they won't be there when he needs them.

Moving on from that, those Tory traitors (for that's what they are) have supported the aptly named "Surrender Act" which puts our immediate future into the hands of the EU who can determine the extension period if any. "Traitor" is an apt word in both senses.
Theresa May was elected unopposed in the third ballot (which, I think, also counts as "overwhelming) as Leadsom withdrew, but 39 Tory MPs voted against her (including Patel, Raab, BJ, JRM) - should they be branded ”Tory traitors"?

Using words like "traitor" inflames the easily provoked, and can lead to threats and violence - I believe that phrase is inappropriate. Some colleagues of mine in the RAF worked with Geoffrey Prime - he was a traitor.

Words can have consequences, so I wish people would use them more carefully.

OLD BOY 29-09-2019 10:24
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36012092)
So they couldn’t come back?

Your claim is preposterous and you know it. It’s essentially trolling to know you are in the wrong yet peddle flawed discussion lines continuously.

If there’s a VONC on Wednesday they’ll be told the day before and can make arrangements to attend. Boris wants to lose a VONC. Jeremy asks for an extension and Boris gets his election.
He might want to lose a vote of no confidence, but he wouldn't want to put Corbyn in power. They will need to be in attendance to ensure that does not happen.

Nothing preposterous about it and the point I was making was that the opposition is complaining about Boris's 'dirty tricks' and then they pull a stunt like this.

Mr K 29-09-2019 10:26
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
'surrender' , 'traitors', all words designed to provoke. This isn't going to end well.

Who are those hoping for civil unrest? Those looking to cling onto power is the answer, not some lefty anarchists.

Sephiroth 29-09-2019 10:31
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36012112)
Theresa May was elected unopposed in the third ballot (which, I think, also counts as "overwhelming) as Leadsom withdrew, but 39 Tory MPs voted against her (including Patel, Raab, BJ, JRM) - should they be branded ”Tory traitors"?

Using words like "traitor" inflames the easily provoked, and can lead to threats and violence - I believe that phrase is inappropriate. Some colleagues of mine in the RAF worked with Geoffrey Prime - he was a traitor.

Words can have consequences, so I wish people would use them more carefully.
I understand the point you've made about the word "traitor".
But I feel so strongly about this - notwithstanding that Boris is not my choice of leader; yet I haven't left the Party nor was I a traitor for not supporting his candidacy. The May selection was an internal matter; the "traitorous" actions of the 21 were a whipped Parliamentary matter, a huge difference.

OLD BOY 29-09-2019 10:32
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36012114)
'surrender' , 'traitors', all words designed to provoke. This isn't going to end well.

Who are those hoping for civil unrest? Those looking to cling onto power is the answer, not some lefty anarchists.
These descriptions are no worse than 'poll tax' and 'bedroom tax' used by Labour in the past. They don't like it when the boot is on the other foot and the descriptions are more apt.

No-one in their right minds wants civil unrest and certainly not the government. It is the people who are trying to undermine democracy who are making all the noise out there at the moment, so you might want to re-think.

1andrew1 29-09-2019 10:37
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
For those wanting to know more about the issue that Boris faces from his GLA days, The Sunday Times says three questions need answers from him.
https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/sta...123904/photo/1

---------- Post added at 10:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36012115)
I understand the point you've made about the word "traitor".
But I feel so strongly about this - notwithstanding that Boris is not my choice of leader; yet I haven't left the Party nor was I a traitor for not supporting his candidacy. The May selection was an internal matter; the "traitorous" actions of the 21 were a whipped Parliamentary matter, a huge difference.
The Conservative Party is a broad church with an until-now noble tradition of disagreement.

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012116)
These descriptions are no worse than 'poll tax' and 'bedroom tax' used by Labour in the past. They don't like it when the boot is on the other foot and the descriptions are more apt.
Stuff and nonsense. Calling something a tax is different from calling someone a traitor.

Pierre 29-09-2019 10:53
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36012070)
and b) be out by 31st October, which is not obeying the law.
That is entirely possible. There is nothing in the bill that says it is illegal to exit the EU by 31st Oct.

jfman 29-09-2019 11:34
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012113)
He might want to lose a vote of no confidence, but he wouldn't want to put Corbyn in power. They will need to be in attendance to ensure that does not happen.

Nothing preposterous about it and the point I was making was that the opposition is complaining about Boris's 'dirty tricks' and then they pull a stunt like this.
No such stunt has been pulled.

If he feels strongly against Corbyn why not ask for the extension himself then call a GE? It’s a total red herring on your part. Boris and his tricks cost Parliamentary time, which they can now claw back.

Poll tax wasn’t a tax? Huge leap there Old Boy.

papa smurf 29-09-2019 11:42
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36012122)
No such stunt has been pulled.

If he feels strongly against Corbyn why not ask for the extension himself then call a GE? It’s a total red herring on your part. Boris and his tricks cost Parliamentary time, which they can now claw back.

Poll tax wasn’t a tax? Huge leap there Old Boy.
it says here that it was.
The Community Charge, commonly known as the poll tax, was a system of taxation introduced in replacement of domestic rates in Scotland from 1989, prior to its introduction in England and Wales from 1990. It provided for a single flat-rate per-capita tax on every adult, at a rate set by the local authority. The charge was replaced by Council Tax in 1993, two years after its abolition was announced.[


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_(Great_Britain)

1andrew1 29-09-2019 12:07
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36012123)
it says here that it was.
The Community Charge, commonly known as the poll tax, was a system of taxation introduced in replacement of domestic rates in Scotland from 1989, prior to its introduction in England and Wales from 1990. It provided for a single flat-rate per-capita tax on every adult, at a rate set by the local authority. The charge was replaced by Council Tax in 1993, two years after its abolition was announced.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_(Great_Britain)
I don't think Old Boy doubts it was a tax, just that he thinks it unfair to call it a tax on voting. Branding a tax or charge a poll tax is of course not the same as calling a person a traitor.

OLD BOY 29-09-2019 12:33
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36012117)
For those wanting to know more about the issue that Boris faces from his GLA days, The Sunday Times says three questions need answers from him.
https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/sta...123904/photo/1

---------- Post added at 10:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------


The Conservative Party is a broad church with an until-now noble tradition of disagreement.

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 ----------


Stuff and nonsense. Calling something a tax is different from calling someone a traitor.
So you distinguish between an inaccurate description of 'something' with an accurate description of 'someone' and conclude that the accurate description is wrong.

What a strange world you are living in, Andrew. :no:

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36012122)
No such stunt has been pulled.

If he feels strongly against Corbyn why not ask for the extension himself then call a GE? It’s a total red herring on your part. Boris and his tricks cost Parliamentary time, which they can now claw back.

Poll tax wasn’t a tax? Huge leap there Old Boy.
It was not the poll tax, it was the Community Charge, and then the council tax.

You say that no stunt has been pulled. Are you in denial that this is what is being planned?

Why would Boris ask for an extension when he has pledged to leave by 31 October? You're not really joining up the dots here, jfman.


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