Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Irony off the chart! :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYfqcNvX...jpg&name=small

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That isn’t GB News official account. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Don't mind :) It's the idea I found funny

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm sure he could have saved himself the hassle and got his seafood from Scotland, and champagne from his local booze shop, the sausage/salami could also have been bought in the UK, but tough luck, eh. lol

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Aww, that's just not fair...:p:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Simon Calder laying out the facts on GB news of all places

https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1551525150566359040

was UK choice to become a third country and add all the rules of being a third country

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

And it is a choice I’m totally okay with. Pretty standard having to have passport checked and stamped. It does not remove France obligations to adequately staff their border checks. After all, these could be French nationals re-entering their country, and as already mentioned, tourists paying in to French coffers, they need to step up their game, regardless of Brexit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Exactly!

---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Finally some sanity around here. Brexit means 3rd country checks which means delays in peak periods. End of.

The delays could be mitigated to an extent if additional resources were added (booths, etc.) with the ability to convince the French to staff them.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Why the need to neatly label someone and put them in a box?

I am not a “Brexiter” (which is a term I despise) and on the only chance we had to vote on it, I voted Remain….( I’m also not a Remainer, I voted Remain that’s all)

As a Democrat, I believe we should all move forward and not whinge about getting your own way like a child.

It depends on what you consider “optimum”. Anyone with half a brain would know the journey from leaving the EU to establishing a new equilibrium with the globe would be difficult, painful and lengthy. The very reasons I voted Remain, but the decision went against me, and I can live with that.

What I can’t live with is people throwing unnecessary obstacles in our way, and others taking pleasure as we find our way through these very early stages of the journey.

Again, only an idiot (and there seems to be millions) would have thought that Brexit Day+1 would instantly see us reap any benefits and sunny uplands free of the EU. To complain and constantly moan that it hasn’t happened just cements the stupidity.

Brexit is a generational journey, and once the bitterness and aftershocks have subsided, we may begin to forge a new relationship with the EU, but there’s too much hate on both sides at the moment to do anything meaningful.

For real Brexiters, the fact we are no longer in the EU is reward enough.

The rest of us need to look reality in the face and do what’s best for the country.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

And yet French disabled badges can be used here. :rolleyes:

They should just reciprocate.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

tbf, the online articles state "may not" or "might not" be valid/accepted in some countries…

20 Countries/Territories accept them, 10 are "Undecided".

It’s wrong that the Blue Badge holders don’t know what’s happening, but the individual countries are making, or are in the process of making, Sovereign decisions…

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...european-union

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Agreed.

---------- Post added at 23:13 ---------- Previous post was at 23:09 ----------

Agreed.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

From today’s FT

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1658858906

So glad we are cutting unnecessary red tape…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I wonder how much they spent thinking up the new name

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Sad to read that.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This was always going to happen with highly regulated industries and highlights the issue with re-regulation vs. deregulation. If the UK diverges from EU regulations, then the regulatory burden for a company can effectively double. For the chemical industry, REACH is a massive pain until you get in to the rhythm of applications but it' s hurdle that needs to be got over if you want to sell to the EU. The smart move would be to allow the UK regulators to accept EU REACH applications for UK REACH but I suspect the political position of 'EU bad, UK good' wouldn't allow this.

In the absence of local regulations, companies will lean towards the most stringent regulations in any of their markets which is why you see cookie acceptance buttons on websites based anywhere

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

For some reason, this article has escaped our usual Daily Express re-posters.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ny-mordaunt-eu

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s a delay, not a cancellation.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I doubt it will ever get implemented as it just adds cost to imports and who's going to want to do that in the middle of Truss's recession? There are even rumours that she will bring back some freedom of movement from the EU for to try and tackle wage inflation.

It's a £2m pa bill that the council is being saddled with for following government instructions. The least they can do is to cover it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You're joking, we haven't gone through all this to just simply reintroduce stuff we voted to leave behind

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We went through this to give BoJo a spin nehind tbe wheel!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No we never, there was a myriad of reasons people voted to leave and you only speak for yourself, fact is we left and in doing so left the single market that maggie dreamt up including it's free movement of services, goods, capital and people, we haven't gone through all this crap to glibly say oh we'll reintroduce one of them, there would be uproar and rightly so imo

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I rhink Truss may introduce one way FOM for farm and hospitality work.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maggie didn't "dream up" the single market at all, that was the EEC at the time and it certainly didn't include free movement of people. It was merely a trading block.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Hmm. She had a lot to do with making it happen and freedom of movement was always intended to be one of its four pillars.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/o...ld-432900.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who said this then

and to move towards free enterprise in a single market. She stated that "of course, we want to make it easier for goods to pass through frontiers. Of course, we must make it easier for people to travel throughout the Community

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://apnews.com/article/brexit-bu...b5132bdfb22ea6

Easier for people to travel does not automatically mean free movement.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Great, a quote that bares no relevance to the point you're trying to prove, like it or not she was the political driving force behind the unified single market for goods, services, labour and capital, the fact she didn't like the euro or Central Bank doesn't change that

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Got my new driving license photo card in the post today after changing address. No more euro-flag in my wallet. A small thing, I know, but it made me smile. I can’t wait for those disingenuous “structural fund” signs to start vanishing from our regional infrastructure projects as well, all decorated with the EU flag as if it wasn’t our own money they were sending back to us (after necessary deductions for their commissioners’ private jets, naturally).

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I doubt you'll be seeing any replacement Union Flag signs unless your MP is Conservative. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Wonder if any of the regional infrastructure projects will vanish as well, after rishi's boasting about taking money of poor regions it wouldn't surprise me

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If they do, then political accountability for it will rest at Westminster and nowhere else, and it can become a directly relevant issue at the next election - which is part of the point of Brexit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It was returning money to the regions Labour had stolen it from. There are a set of formulae that are used to allocate money to regions. Labour altered them to take money away from non-Labour areas.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not really bothered about that to be honest - we’re not really a big flag-waving nation. It’s more the symbolism of the disengagement from EU institutions and structures I was pointing out. The main advantage is that signage no longer implies we should be grateful for largesse paid for with our own money.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It is quite depressing that people are content in celebrating the removal of insignia with the price paid for the removal of such trivia being the structural impoverishment of the nation and the visceral division of our society.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That is what Democracy does and those who voted to leave chose. That little detail you conveniently Keep ignoring Ianch.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No, this is not to do with the vote anymore. It is the honesty of those who voted to Leave, knowing that this would have severe economic & societal consequences and to then ignore, and worse, misrepresent the reality that was foretold.

There are those, like you and Seph, who will stand up and say: "Yes, I was prepared for the downsides and was happy with these consequences". I fundamentally disagree with you but I respect the honesty. There are others, however, who will not be this honest and will, and this is the unsavoury part, will go out of their way to pretend that there is no downside and try and gaslight the situation.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think the problem is they didn't have a plan B (some might say they didn't even have a plan A, but that's another discussion). We left with our Government expecting the world to be tripping over itself to get us to sign a trade deal and we'd all be living on milk and honey. Meanwhile in the real world, that hasn't happened and most of the rest of the world has watched us threaten to renegade on the biggest deal we signed and then acting like a child crying because we've not got our own way. The next PM and their team need to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves how they're going to repair out reputation which is becoming evermore tarnished. Let's have at least the bones of a plan - the meat can come later, but give us some idea what direction they plan to follow otherwise HMS UK will end up going in circles getting nowhere. One thing we must not do is sign deals at any price, and a good start would be employing people who can read to at least have a quick glance through any deal before we sign. That would be an improvement on what appears to have happened with the deal we signed with the EU.

Oh and I got my new photocard the other day and didn't notice any flag, but then I can't say I ever noticed any flag on my old one either. Trust me when I say there're many many more important things to worry about in life.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Your hindsight is flawed. We were part of the EU and any monies sent and/or received were sanctioned by us as a member state.

Of course, the whole point is moot since the financial cost of Brexit has now exceeded the total of the monies we paid into the EU as a member state. Sort of sums up the whole debacle.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think many blame leaving the EU for everything, ignoring the timing of covid/other external factors and the fact many EU countries are having some similar financial difficulties at the moment. We outperformed many main EU countries some quarters too.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not sure who the "many" are here? The "blame leaving the EU for everything" trope is not worth the debate. No one in the right mind would do this - the issue is that all the troubled sectors e.g. farming, fisheries, trade imports/exports, R&D, Finance, etc. will have a Brexit contribution. Some small and some considerable.

It is wishful thinking that we are just like the other EU countries in our economic performance post-Covid, we're not.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

How?

Insignia symbolise things. Removing them symbolises the deeper change permitting their removal. The removal of the EU name and/or flag from our driving licences, our infrastructure projects and whatever else, is a visible reminder of where the buck now always stops. Harmonised EU rules now need no longer be an excuse for government inaction. And that’s good for our democracy because we can debate these things and hold our representatives to account in elections that can actually result in an entire change of government rather than the massive deckchair shuffling process that occurs in Strasbourg.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:rofl:

Now we just have that they’re crap.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Quite possibly. And while it’s all but impossible to effect co-ordinated, meaningful change in the EU legislature across the entire bloc, it is most definitely possible to do it within the UK. Accountability now rests where it ought to.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Given their impotence in applying the powers they do have I look forward to the exhaustive list of planned improvements that couldn’t happen in the EU.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You have to admire (not really) Rees-Mogg’s brass neck in claiming £1 billion in savings/avoided costs by suspending something we only introduced because we left the EU…

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-saved-almost/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Johnson's terrible Brexit deal that penalised UK manufacturing continues to unravel. As a trade expert reveals, if Johnson had wanted to, he could have sorted this issue out over a couple of beers in Brussels.
https://www.ft.com/content/fcddb854-...5-4dc905abc64e

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's not unravelling, we were told manufacturing and farming would be sacrificed, that they are is hardly a shock to anyone paying attention

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

BREAKING: Liz Truss is considering plans to trigger Article 16 within days of becoming PM, according to govt insiders.

UK facing critical Sep 15 deadline with EU. Truss campaign insists she still wants negotiated solution to NI protocol - Financial Times.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Link to above story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62728618

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Good for her!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Better to use the agreed course of action like Article 16 than tear up the agreement unilaterally. But do we really want to fall out with our largest trading partners the EU at a time of rampant inflation and a common aggressive enemy? Thatcher used tact and diplomacy as well as threats; Truss needs to acquire the former skills sharpish!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Large numbers of Albanians have been entering the EU illegally, and many are trying to cross the English Channel. They have been a thorn in the backside for the French police.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

so would you want a trade war OB it wont be us that wins if there is one

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'd rather not fall out with the EU, but we can't put up with being pushed around either. We've been trying for some time to get an agreement to get the protocol working as it should and we've had nothing but obstruction. It is hurting the Northern Ireland economy, its businesses and even preventing Stormont from sitting.

We cannot go on like this, and in the absence of co-operation we have to do what is best for us. Our proposals do not affect the EU's ability to prevent the wrong goods getting in. They are simply being obstinate.

---------- Post added at 07:42 ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 ----------

I didn't say that.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Your assertion is counter-factual…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-62398680

The reason Stormont isn’t sitting is because the DUP have taken the hump with a legal agreement (NI Protocol) signed by the U.K. Government - as the article states Sounds as if you are supporting the anti-democratic DUP…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The Northern Ireland Assembly is not running because the DUP are boycotting it, ostensibly because they don't like Johnson's Northern Ireland Protocol. The EU is not preventing Stormont from working.

If we fall out with the EU then we fall out with the US and we don't want to do either. Especially with rampant inflation.

The Protocol is actually helping the Northern Ireland economy - it's the only part of the UK apart from London to have shown growth. Perhaps the rest of the UK would have done the same if we'd stayed in the Single Market as Daniel Hanan said we would?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

i know you didn't OB was asking the question that's all surely be better to talk to EU and try sort it instead of trying to stir up the tension which it looks like Truss is trying to to does not do either side any good

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The same DUP that spent £435k on newspaper adverts in another country's newspaper (Metro, not available in NI) to encourage people to vote for Brexit that many believe was not its own money.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...aign-1.4320055

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I didn’t take you for an Irish nationalist Andrew.

Mainland GB may be beyond the usual election territory of the DUP but as I’m sure you’re very well aware, a referendum is not an election and the DUP does not consider Great Britain to be another country.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What I am saying is that we should do what is best for Britain.

And while the NI economy may have improved, that is despite the EU intransigence and the unnecessary bureaucracy they have imposed. Without that, they would do even better.

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:33 ----------

Yes, but what do you think we have been doing all this time? The EU just put up barriers and stick their fingers in their ears.

---------- Post added at 18:37 ---------- Previous post was at 18:34 ----------

Some people didn't realise how childish and awkward the EU would be because they were classed as our 'friends'.

Had both sides co-operated with each other, the DUP would not have got the hump, would they?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Good luck getting treated in A&E for the whiplash caused by that complete change of direction… :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I thought the addition of 10 years on the streaming thread was substantive but nothing compared to this handbrake U-turn! :shocked:

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:42 ----------

Were I an Irish nationalist, I would have advocated Brexit as the fastest route to achieving unification.

The purchase of the wrap-around by the DUP in GB where it does not field any candidates was very strange. As the article says
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...aign-1.4320055

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------

Johnson was just pandering to the right-wing of the Conservative Party instead of holding normal negotiations. No amount of throwing our toys out of the pram will alter our geography or the importance of the EU as a trading partner. In fact, recent figures show a decline in non-EU trade. Not saying the EU is perfect as it's not.

The DUP are just using this as an excuse in the same way that Johnson blamed cake for his transgressions. As Hugh says, the're behaving in an undemocratic manner and it's disappointing that you fail to condemn this.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Again … where it fields election candidates is irrelevant. This was not an election. It was a single question referendum with a single UK-wide outcome.

I did read the article but I didn’t see any evidence of lawbreaking. Quite possibly loophole-exploiting, but not lawbreaking.

This looks just like another load of remoaner wailing.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's a bit of a stretch to pretend that advertising outside Northern Ireland is irrelevant for an NI-only political party. It's unprecedented, unusual and the source of the funding is opaque.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s no more relevant than Leanne Wood and Nicola Sturgeon appearing in UK-wide debates during the referendum campaign, which they both did, on the basis that a single decision taken by the entire UK would affect their own jurisdictions.

I totally understand where you’re coming from - you want to cry foul because the political funding rules seem to have allowed nationwide campaigning by an organisation regulated by a process that only anticipated them operating within a certain legal jurisdiction. That, however, is because those rules were designed on the assumption that they were regulating election spending. This was not an election.

If they found and exploited a weakness in the rules, then boo flipping hoo …

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Still using the childish name calling? I thought we have moved on from this.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s pretty clear from the above that there are still those bent on delegitimising the referendum result. That is the very essence of remoaning (as opposed to simply having campaigned for remain, or believing the UK should rejoin, which is not remoaning). When they move on from that, there will no longer be a need for a handy shorthand name for it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not in my case. Hugh pointed out how the DUP was behaving in an undemocratic nature. I pointed out how to my mind its unprecedented GB-only advertising with an unclear funding source was undemocratic too. That doesn't make other parties perfect.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What are people who are critical of what has happened since?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This has no meaning. We have left the EU so you need to move on.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It has a meaning until people stop bleating on about the decision of the electorate.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ah fascism. I’ll be honest I did have it on my political and economic decline of the UK bingo card.

I realise I was a little harsh on what we gave the world in another thread. Culturally, we have the literary greats of Orwell and Dickens. I doubt even they believed 1984 and Oliver Twist would be considered aspirational in 21st century Britain.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Perhaps you shouldn’t post when you’ve been on the booze - or was it the opioids?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You know OB is out of ammo when it’s petty insults before bed.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So stop bleating then. You need to move on. We need to discuss the consequences of the decision and those who are responsible for it. Accountability is a bedrock of democracy.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Or even better, discuss what now needs to be done to make it work. You are labelling it a failure before we have even revised the laws and bureaucracy that was getting in the way of our success.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think that is known as remoaning.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ian hasn't labelled it a failure - you have implied it is by using that word. Are you perchance a closet remoaner, Old Boy? Ian said "We need to discuss the consequences of the decision and those who are responsible for it. Accountability is a bedrock of democracy."

Which laws and bureaucracy are getting in the way of our success? Currently, I'm hearing from business that it's post-Brexit red tape that is impacting their export efforts.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

British electorate?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Can you name any specific law or bureaucracy (and propose amendments to it) and quantify the extent to which it moves us forwards to 'success'?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

He can't, you are wasting your time. All he can promise is illusion, the reality is all around in plain site. We really are at the point where the small boy says to the Emperor he's wearing nothing at all:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

With the best will in the world to ianch99, Mr K, 1andrew1 and myself we’re not the experts in this. We’ve no buy in.

OB on the other hand wants to move the conversation on to discuss what now needs to be done to make it work and, since he referenced it, I’ve invited him to name specific laws and bureaucracy that have to change to make it a success.

If he’s stumped you’ve no chance of us having the answer.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well, that’s twisting it even further than you normally twist things, Andrew. I’ve been consistent in saying all along that we are in a transitional stage and that the adjustments we need to make Brexit a success have hardly even begun.

I was saying to Ian that he was labelling it a failure, as indeed are you and far too many others on here. The bureaucracy businesses are co mplaining of are those the EU is insisting on. The benefits of Brexit will not be discovered in practice until we do something about that.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

I’m not theone still moaning about Brexit. We’re you focussed when you wrote this?;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The point is obvious to all but the faithful. You are deluded if you think it is just this executive that has caused the project's rapid demise. The whole proposition was doomed from the onset. The modern world does not work like it did 40 years ago.

Brexit is/will cause permanent economic damage to this country, not forgetting the societal divisions it created and the racism/xenophobia it validated. The only pragmatic action is to target EFTA membership and then work from there.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What do you know about what I think? This thread has nothing in it to say about benefits, it’s all negativism - pretty well all of it.

I have already given some examples of EU legislation that needs to be taken out to free up business. Remember the GDPR, Working Time Directive and Acquired Rights Directive?

It’s about time there was constructive talk about making this work. What is the purpose of constantly inserting links and opinions about things that have gone wrong or have not happened? Does that actually help anyone if we don’t then look at how to put it right?

It’s just pointless moaning and wingeing, predominantly by people who were on the wrong side of the referendum and don’t wish to respect the result.

---------- Post added at 19:12 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

The electorate voted for Brexit. Get over it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The floor if yours, OB. Tell us how the erosion of workers rights will raise living standards? :rofl: