Re: Coronavirus
 

The canard now being regularly parroted by the EU and its shills is that the EU in fact signed its purchase agreement a day before the UK. This is to ignore the fact that the UK had a supply agreement in place months earlier. The existence of that agreement was public knowledge at the time; it was the very same agreement that gave AstraZeneca access to the Oxford vaccine instead of Oxford’s preferred, American manufacturer. It did this in order to guarantee supply to the UK. Furthermore it included pricing terms: AstraZeneca was to provide at cost. For all these reasons the date on the contract setting out the fine details of the final purchase agreement is irrelevant. So too, for that matter, is the existence (or not) of clauses relating to preferential supply. All of that was taken care of when AstraZeneca was brought on board.

The blog Pierre linked earlier uses the fact that the details of this original agreement are still confidential as an excuse to indulge in wild speculation about supposed British vaccine nationalism (that blog, hilariously, also uses the absence of evidence of vaccine exports of AstraZeneca vaccine to the UK from the Halix facility in the Netherlands, as proof that it may actually have happened. It’s proper wingnuts conspiracy stuff).

Re: Coronavirus
 

IIRC It is Oxford University that stipulates that AZ has tosupply it at cost. AZ have been given the marketing rights, they don't own the intellectual property.

Re: Coronavirus
 

At cost until the pandemic is over which could be defined as this July. (That month looks unlikely to me at the moment.)

https://www.businessinsider.com/astr...0-10?r=US&IR=T

Re: Coronavirus
 

That’s actually even better ... it blows a great big hole in that academic’s blog, which owes far too much to its own speculation as to the exact contents of prior agreements AstraZeneca has made. He has tried really hard to paint the UK government as mercenary and European governments as altruistic, though for the reasons I outlined earlier, it just doesn’t work.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

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:sleep::sleep:

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Meanwhile this gives pause for thought.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sorry my attention span has shrunk and a 26 minute video from another set of 'experts' from something called Biznews isn't going to get my attention.I'll stick with Professor Whitty's.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just as Canada suspend use of the Astrazenica vaccine for under 55s the state propoganda machine have yet another puff piece about plucky upstarts Astrazenica being hard done by. It's almost as if they're prepared in advance.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364

I'm quite sure a £94bn business isn't going to be exiting what's likely to be a huge money making market for the next few years.

While the vaccine is being supplied "at cost" for now there's no commitment to provide the likely ongoing annual boosters on that basis. I'm sure the Ugandans want to know why they're paying $8 compared to the EU paying $2 per shot also.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Refrigerated transportation costs? Plus are some of the EU per dose costs offset by their capital investment?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who knows. Maybe providing them at cost is best effort.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think you’ve arrived at the right answer, by the wrong reasoning.

It’s pretty obvious that “at cost” will be higher to any destination in the heart of Africa than it would be just a short ride down the autobahn from the factory where it’s made. The higher price is indeed “best effort”. Though I totally get you were just trying to be sarcastic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I suppose costs will vary between the different plants producing it. An already established plant will have lower costs than a brand new one. Later purchasers may be suffering from the effect of the additional costs of increasing capacity.
Apparently shipping is extra, $3/dose.
Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

If it's produced at cost and the cost of the raw ingredients rises due to increased global demand, then I'm sure the cost of the vaccine will go up. Everything else being equal.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Isn't shipping part of the cost or do you expect them to supply @ $3/dose shipped free?

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Amazon will probably ship it for free . . . if you join Prime and shop in bulk :D

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https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...ic-propaganda/

Re: Coronavirus
 

EU vaccine chaos: Austria threatens to block 100m jab purchase unless it gets bigger share

Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz is demanding the Commission rethinks its distribution mechanism to allow for a bigger share of jabs to be delivered to his country. The Austrian leader is threatening to block the purchase of 100million doses of vaccines unless Commission President Ursula von der Leyen gives in to his demands.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...azeneca-latest

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It's in addition to the listed $7 price. Jfman stated it was $8 with no suggestion of additional shipping costs.

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Sorry ... is your source for '$8 shipping included' Jfman, or an actual authoritative online, linkable resource?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hundreds not turning up for vaccines.

I'd expect more, as for example here, the mass vac centres are pretty remote if you can't get a lift. No easy bus routes either, and taxis are beyond the means of many. A gaggle of (distanced) people were waiting for taxis home after the jab, and I saw several moaning at the stewards that the trip there was late as "there aren't enough taxis".

The system that was adopted was a letter with a date and time. No way to contact them to postpone it if you were ill or at work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56575733

Re: Coronavirus
 

The details of prices paid for the vaccines has been collated here by Unicef.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrI...eafd86059a947b

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They can’t help themselves can they!

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...r-60s-12261200

Re: Coronavirus
 

The strangest thing is that this particular rare type of clot is a known side effect of the contraceptive pill. And almost all of the cases reported in Germany are among women of middle age or younger. Which makes me wonder what’s making them think the vaccine is the more likely explanation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Breaking. CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky: “Our data from the CDC today suggest that vaccinated people do not carry the virus.”

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It’s all madness. Pierre’s sister is a full on Covid conspiracy nut job. You can’t choose your family.

She sent me a link to a dodgy YouTube channel. U.K. column news. That was quoting MHRA stats on the COVID vaccine. They mis-report the MHRA data of issues of people that have been vaccinated, to issues caused by the vaccine - the two are very separate. One particular issue was in regards to guillain - Barre syndrome. A syndrome where the immune system attacks the nervous system. According to MHRA data there had been 36 cases and one death. They were attributing this as a side affect of the vaccine.

Whereas in the general population 1-2 people per 100,000 would acquire this syndrome naturally. In a vaccine roll out of 20million you would expect 100-200 cases of this anyway.

This is where it has got ridiculous. Now I can accept mis-information from from dodgy YouTube channels, but from government it is unacceptable.

Millions have been vaccinated, we are beyond 3weeks (which seems to be the threshold, I don’t know why ) for millions of vaccinations. There is no data I know of that tips illnesses in the vaccinated above the general population.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...=1617140796812

A source.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don’t see any discussion about delivery costs there, though it might be implicit in the statement from AZ in the final paragraph. In part, it says: “The price of the vaccine will differ due to number of factors, including the cost of manufacturing which varies dependent on the geographic region, and the volumes requested by the countries.”

Re: Coronavirus
 

The mood seems to he shifting on the AZN vaccine, even in the Union Jack waving Torygraph.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-h...no-need-panic/

Re: Coronavirus
 

So first it was only the over 60’s that could have it, now it is only the under 60’s that can have it. Got it.

---------- Post added at 08:17 ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 ----------

So 31 cases for a condition that affects between 5-10 people per 100,000 of population.

https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseas...ombocytopenia/

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I provided a link for my $7+$3 shipping. Although the actual cost might've changed by the time of the final agreement. The link Jfman used, doesn't mention Uganda.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But if they don't have the stocks of the vaccine due to cock up on the ordering front. what is the point of this latest debacle.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Obviously that 31 is higher on a per 100,000 of population basis for the vaccinated cohort than would be expected to be seen over a few week period.

Remember this is the hapless EU rollout. It's probably 31 out of about 106 people vaccinated.

---------- Post added at 08:46 ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 ----------

It's certainly a more sombre tone. I doubt they've suddenly becomes experts in the field, or inclined to demonstrate a reasonableness to our EU friends, so I'd expect a nudge from someone in the UK to have warned them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I watched the film Contagion (2011) last evening. It was almost a mirror of what we are going through.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Re: Coronavirus
 

I watched that and was gobsmacked at the similarity, timelines and methods of containing it, you'd think you couldn't write this but someone did to the finest detail.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, it should have been required viewing for all pandemic planners.

Good job COVID is a relatively mild disease otherwise we could have really been in the cackaa.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Chris whitty must have a copy of it, because his advice is a copy of it.;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good news for the UK's vaccine roll out.

No doubt the EU apparatchiks are getting ready to bad mouth this as well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I thought Israel was leading the pack?!

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's because they used team of scientists and doctors to advise on making the film (mostly) accurate in it's treatment of what would happen, from the script to the props - it's film reflecting reality, rather than the reality reflecting what happened in the film.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/14/cont...-pandemic.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

The UK has had plans for more than 10 years.
UK Influenza Pandemic Preparedness Strategy
In 2019, the UK was judged to be 2nd in the world for being best prepared for a pandemic.
These are the top 10 countries for pandemic preparedness
The UK had tens of millions £ worth of stock held in preparation for a future pandemic.
Covid might not be the flu, but it is a respiratory virus. Similar methods of transmission.

Re: Coronavirus
 

On the contrary, the fact that the UK had assumed the pandemic would be caused by flu hampered us in the early stages of the pandemic. Covid and flu are both respiratory tract infections but they are quite different in what they do and how they are treated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Being prepared in terms of methods of transmission and behaviour of people WERE applicable. Studies on Middle East Respiratory Syndrome(MERS) were included. Spreading on cruise ships was highlighted.

Completely impossible to predict how people would need to be treated, eg need for ventilators.
The FACT of the matter is that we were independently judged to be better prepared than the majority of other countries.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah ... repeating the same falsehoods with bold and caps doesn’t make you right.

Plenty was printed in the middle of last year about the crucial differences between influenza and covid and why preparedness for one does not equate to preparedness for both. If I have time later I may dig out a few references.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Gibraltar is way ahead of everywhere else. 83% have had both vaccinations.

Seychelles, Chile, UAE and many of the other UK dependencies and overseas territories are also doing really well.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Re: Coronavirus
 

Chile has gone like the clappers, starting the beginning of February and up to 53% done already! Also 18.4% fully vaccinated with two doses. They're using SinoVac vaccine.

The other one check out is Bhutan - started March 26th and up to 44% done already. OK, tiny population but that is good going! Cool flag too...

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Pfizer jab is extremely effective in young people aged 12-15, according to a study in the US, and did not produce any unusual side-effects.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56591429

This bodes well for our ability to eventually eliminate all the virus' hiding places in our population.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Has nobody else had a wry smile to themselves with the news about GSK planning to use their Barnard Castle facility in part of their Novavax rollout as it was almost a year ago when Barnard Castle was last in the national news and quite the topic of discussion in this thread.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No surprise we could vaccinate the entire population of Gibraltar 25times over in one day.

---------- Post added at 14:35 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

Not sure I would be any rush to vaccinate the kids.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't think anyone is likely to be, given that they are so rarely symptomatic. They can however carry and spread the virus and therefore pose a risk to those who will remain vulnerable even once vaccinated. They are also potential hosts where a mutation can develop. In the long run, young people are going to have to be vaccinated if we're to drive covid as close to extinction as reasonably possible.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, that's great news and would be a huge step towards a wider herd immunity. Getting on for 20% of the UK population is under 16 so covering at least some of them would be a huge help and stamping down on things.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh dear.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/b...w-coronavirus/

Re: Coronavirus
 

The world should see this pandemic as a very loud wake-up call. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a more vicious outbreak will come one day. And possibly sooner than we expect.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But we are now prepared all we have to do is

1 stop educating people
2 don't sit on park benches
3 don't cut your hair
4 make sure business becomes unviable
5 get everyone to sit on their arses at home
6 make sure there's plenty of bog roll

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

No - Colds can be a coronavirus or a rhinovirus, and vaccines for one form of coronavirus don’t often work on others (they are deigned for the specific family of coronavirus, not generally).

Re: Coronavirus
 

It would be nice but no. If that was the case then having a coronavirus based cold in the past would protect you from COVID which would be great!

There is some evidence of residual immunity in unexposed people suggesting previous unknown coronavirus infection raises a response but the levels seem to be low unfortunately.

Also, as Hugh says, rhinoviruses are a big cause (30-80% of infections)

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Times link in text for those who have access.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My dad had just had his second Pfzier jab.


so when I have my 2nd AZ jab on 7th June, I'll be a happy bunny.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can someone please explain why vaccine passports are discriminatory?


Surely these are needed to protect people.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Do you mean a vaccine passport to allow foreign travel, or a vaccine passport to go to the pub/theatre/football?

It will only be a few more months until most UK people have had their first jab.
Most children (apparently) will have already had Covid by then - if we go by the amount of positive tests in schools.

By the time vaccine passports are securely available - with safeguards for those 'unable' to be vaccinated and a method of stopping forgeries - there will be no need for one.

Foreign travel is another fish filled kettle altogether ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I agree with Carth, some form of confirmation that a traveller may need to produce with their passport could well be required when travelling abroad but...

The only people who I can see who would have cause to not want a vaccination 'passport' for use to access places within the UK on are, on basic level, those who have refused the vaccinations and fear that their freedom to do what they want in future could be curtailed.

On another level I do wonder what difference they would make as we don't yet know how long a vaccination would provide sufficient antibodies to give any long term protection and a vaccine passport could promote a false sense of security.

I also wonder how detailed and verifiable any 'passport' would be, without a photograph they would just become something that was as much use as a blank piece of paper. A full blown secure document which would have to be updated and renewed would cost a lot of money and I doubt if a lot people would be able to bear the cost. If the cost was hived off to private Government appointed firms then the experiences with the obscene profits made by organisations set up to deal with track and trace, for example, are anything to go by I can understand some people saying that they disagree with such passports being considered.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Important to understand that the first jab (O/AZ) gives 76% protection from 22 days after the first jab, and reduction in asymptomatic transmission by 67%, then 82% protection after the second dose but a reduction to 50% in asymptomatic transmission after the second dose.

It greatly reduces the likelyhood of severe illness and passing on the virus, it doesn't stop it.

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-ce...ii-trials.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

If, as is apparently the case, it doesn't stop you catching or transmitting the virus, what good would a vaccination passport do? ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Very few things are 100% effective, but the chance of catching / transmitting are significantly reduced and the chances of severe illness and hospitalisation are practicaly zero. So if we're ever going to travel abroad this is as good as it gets (at the moment).

Re: Coronavirus
 

My issue is the anti-vaxers and covidiots will just spread it to those who are unable to have a jab at the current time.


So why should these people be allowed access to anywhere without being challenged?


I, for one, won't be in any shops before June 21st, if at all.


Mr Amazon will get my business as I won't enter a shop (food shops excluded) that doesn't require proof.


People seem to forget that any shop has the right to refuse entry to anyone it wants, and you can't do squat, remember the supermarket that banned people wearing dressing gowns

Re: Coronavirus
 

Risk reduction, not risk-free.

In cars, we have brakes, air-bags, seat belts, crumple zones - but it’s still recommended to keep a reasonable distance between cars when driving, to further reduce the impact* of a collision.

The likelihood of catching COVID and the severity of the infection on someone can be measured by the viral load (a larger viral load is more likely to infect/impact someone than a low viral load) - the more unvaccinated infected people there are in an enclosed area, the higher the viral load.

*in so many ways... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

What if the vaccinated people all have covid but the none vaccinated person in the room is covid free ?

---------- Post added at 14:47 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

I think it's probably a good idea to have " I think i'm speshull " tattooed on ones forehead ,then we will all know they have had a jab that may or may not have worked, and for those who have had and survived covid a tattoo saying "lucky"....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pretty much everyone in the most vulnerable categories have had the vaccine, or at least 1 shot.


because, although it seem some people would be happy to, we don’t live in Nazi occupied France.


a choice you are FREE to make. BTW does everything magically become safer on June 22nd?

Shop keepers won’t forget people can take their business where they want

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Two things that are not the same -

a) checking if someone has had a vaccination that will help keep others safe
b) being arrested for no reason by a foreign occupying power and sent to a concentration camp

---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:25 ----------

Probably about the same odds as you posting something sensible... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

oh I don't know, let's look at it from a broader angle . . .

Travel Documents, which needed to be shown in order to access certain places/areas. If you didn't have one you couldn't get in :p:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Your issue is you are insanely paranoid, we dont live in a Nazi police state.
If you want to hide away, with your tin foil hat, go for it, and leave the sane ones among us to get on with our lives.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There has been proof that HAVING a cold can stop coronaviruses from entering cells, as the common cold is a big bully. And some have proposed that CATCHING a cold whilst a coronavirus is in you can also cause their eviction from cells.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56483445

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

There are quite a few who are unable to have the jab due to their conditions.


Many of the French friends are likening Macron's methods with dealing with this crisis as very Napoleonic, but not Nazi.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The government are not allowing the police to do anything. They are setting laws that the police must adhere to.

And the government are not trying to stop peaceful protests, but just make them less likely to be hijacked by rent-a-mob and turn violent.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BOTH are spread by similar methods, mainly in the air, and in similar environments, eg cruise ships, military ships, large indoor gatherings. BOTH require PPE. Almost all of the non-medical specific requirements are the SAME.
Link
WHO
A difference.
CDC and WHO not good enough as sources?:rolleyes:

Spanish flu was also more severe in presentation than seasonal flu.
Link

Sound familiar?
Another familiar situation.
The independent report on the preparedness of various countries was for pandemics in general, not just influenza.
If you're saying there are important differences between Covid and flu that couldn't be prepared for, then you're also saying no country in the world could've been prepared, and I doubt you're saying that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Again, a very, very, very long way from Kristalnacht, lebensraum, genocide, massacres of civilian and miltary prisoners, nacht und nebel, euthanasia of disabled children - comparing some form of vaccination certificate with those, and worse atrocities, cheapens the death and suffering under the Nazi regime.

It's like comparing having an accident which caused quadraplegia with a splinter in your finger - context and magnitude count...

Good news - however

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not German mate . . . and how would you pronounce that in Swahili? ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

ID Card - like a Drivers Licence to show you’re old enough to buy a drink...

Re: Coronavirus
 

kitambulisho

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

And soon to be pubs, clubs, shops, footy match, public toilet......

Re: Coronavirus
 

And if you translate it back to German it comes out as "ICH WÜRDE", I would.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, yeah, yeah you can quote massacres, and genocide and the killing of children as a counter argument.........bit excessive don’t you think?

The curtailment of our bog standard freedoms is not something to be trivialised, and the more worrying issue is that people like Homer have now been frightened into thinking that a persons freedom is a bad thing and should be be put into check.

The “evidence” is still that those under 50 are still very unlikely to die from Covid and then the jump to the under 40’s is very pronounced. Considering that those likely to go out for night out are probably younger, risk is low.

Passports for foreign travel, I can support. Passports within country? Absolutely no way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, 1 do think that - it was your comparison... :rolleyes:

Re ‘the young"...

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4470 Long Covid: Virus 'like Russian roulette' for young and healthy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55635451

https://news.sky.com/story/long-covi...gland-12165947 "It’s just like the flu" is now "it doesn’t affect the young" - in both cases, the statements were made hopefully...

Re: Coronavirus
 

you know very well my comparison was metaphorical and you took it literally, but you know what you were doing so we’ll leave it there.

201....... from millions. Long Covid is certainly an issue, not understood yet for a small % of those infected.

Come out from behind the couch.

Re: Coronavirus
 

20%.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56601911

Re: Coronavirus
 

This video has been removed for violating YouTube's Terms of Service.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I would hesitate to define “long Covid” as 5 weeks.....................

Re: Coronavirus
 

:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

The real question is whether “vaccine passports” for venues or events will get more people out spending more money. Would such venues have different distancing rules, if so £££.

If it gets more people “out from behind the couch” as Pierre puts it then it’s already a done deal. It’s how they sell it that’s the question.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s a really difficult question. From a purely practical point of view I can see the benefits of such a scheme, but anything that arouses cross-party passions in the way this has demands careful study. I mean what unites Jeremy Corbyn and IDS?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Useless Leaders of the Opposition? :D