Re: Brexit
 

That is certainly something plenty of us can agree on but l am not sure a general election would end the chaos we are currently in as l can foresee that the result if there was a general election won't be much different from the one in 2017..

Re: Brexit
 

totally agree both main parties are utter shambles long for day for a decent labour leader

Re: Brexit
 

The Government is in crisis with Brexit - it's the first Government in UK history to be in contempt of Parliament and all Jeremy Corbyn's 6 questions raise in PMQs is a report from the UN on Poverty... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

In fairness to JC, if/when Brexit collapses he can look the electorate in the eye and say he had nothing to do with it. The Tories imploded and couldn’t deliver.

Re: Brexit
 

Anyway in other news : 114-Days 19-Hrs 37-Min and 20 Seconds :D:D:D

Re: Brexit
 

I literally cannot wait. It’s all so exciting see political processes accelerate at pace to subvert the will of the people.

Re: Brexit
 

Good girl.. Keep the chin up.Onwards and upwards :)

Re: Brexit
 

A lot of people in Parliament are behaving as if there is an election soon. This might be part of that.....:erm:

Re: Brexit
 

I’d say the chances of an election are high, regardless of how Brexit goes. The current Government cannot effectively govern.

Re: Brexit
 

Not sure many of the public want a election though as they are very much fed up with elections and given what happened in 2017 its highly likely that we will have a minority government again at the end of it all.

Re: Brexit
 

As we spend more on foreign aid, than the EU (£7.7bn/1.1% of GDP vs. £4.7bn/0.7% of GDP) we'll be quids in! Seriously though, only 15% of the foreign aid budget on humanitarian aid. The rest goes on international organisations or bilateral aid to aid the UKs interests abroad - see aid to Pakistan to prevent the rise of anti-UK sentiment as an example. Bribes basically.

Spending source - https://www.statista.com/chart/4520/...o-uk-taxes-go/
Aid recipients - https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-spending-foreign-aid/

Re: Brexit
 

The need for a general election to allow effective Government will override public opinion on the matter.

I don’t know how you can come to the conclusion a minority government is more likely than not - whatever polling suggests today it can radically change during a campaign like in 2017.

Re: Brexit
 

But was the opinion polling before the 2017 election right in the first place with the Conservatives supposedly leading by 20 plus percentage points as l somehow doubt that it was.

---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:23 ----------

Apart from the Blair years parties since 1992 have struggled to get a very comfortable majority on their own unless they were in a coalition.

Re: Brexit
 

A coalition would at least be placed to govern. Right now nobody can effectively.

On top of that it May got chucked for anyone half decent at campaigning the Tories would win at a canter over communist Corbyn.

Re: Brexit
 

Some thoughts about why she lost her majority at the 2017 general election not from me but from the BBC as perhaps you have your own thoughts on the 2017 general election as to why it went so wrong for her..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40237833

---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

Who though? as Boris might be very popular with the membership but he is a polarising figure in the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-mogg-icm-poll

Re: Brexit
 

Doesn’t have to be a Conservative win to give effective Government.

The reality is the current arithmetic will not last until 2022 by any stretch. Could take two general elections in the same year as has happened before for a clear position to arise.

Re: Brexit
 

l thought this summed up things pretty well currently.

Re: Brexit
 

Totally agree Den . The last thing JC wants is an election so he is sticking his head in the preverbal sand as usual ..

Re: Brexit
 

l cannot remember a time when both parties had such poor leaders of their parties as perhaps the best thing for the parties to do with their next leadership contest is to jump a generation.

Re: Brexit
 

I don’t know there’s something quite appealing about the Attorney General as next Conservative leader. Good value at the despatch box.

I’m going to take the opposite view and say Corbyn played a blinder by not falling into the Brexit trap at PMQs. SNP were always going to go all in on it anyway.

Re: Brexit
 

Thanks for doing a countdown to the People's Vote. :D

Re: Brexit
 

DUP to back the Government in a confidence vote only if the deal gets voted down. Increasingly likely there will be Parliamentary involvement in the situation after next week, with the EU “unwilling” to budge and no deal looming.

I wonder what our remain leaning Parliament will do with the prospect of no deal.

I hope the wheels stay on as long as our Chancellor’s emergency budget. It’s the part I’m most looking forward to. Phil deserves to deliver the headshot too. :D

Re: Brexit
 

Phil deserves a head shot.

Re: Brexit
 

even Nigel Farage said at end of his LBC show he feels a second referendum is getting closer

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...diction-wrong/

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...beat-the-crash

He has been known to say one thing in public while he knows the evidence suggests another.

Re: Brexit
 

Probabilities from JP Morgan:
Orderly Brexit 50%
Remaining in the EU 40%.
No-deal Brexit 10%
http://www.cityam.com/270188/jp-morg...er-cent-chance

This news has had a positive effect on UK-focused stocks.
https://news.sky.com/story/uk-focuse...-fade-11572319

Re: Brexit
 

A 2nd referendum is inevitable.

A 2nd referendum followed immediately by a General Election, and chaos.

Buckle up.

Re: Brexit
 

I think we're getting the election first. No way can this continue, it's absurd.

Re: Brexit
 

What would economists at a multi billion dollar investment bank know? :confused:

It’s pure guesswork.

---------- Post added at 21:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:10 ----------

Is there an echo in here?

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 21:10 ----------

Could go either way but the problem with that order is both main parties have leave and remain elements trying to influence their position.

At least referendum first decides that once and for all, and if it’s a leave decision they can find positions that actually involve leaving. The electorate can decide a type of Brexit for once.

Re: Brexit
 

Indeed its pretty untenable.

Re: Brexit
 

I reckon:
- People's vote to decide Brexit question. Conservative Party can then ensure appropriate leader - leave or remain - is selected as future leader.
- General election called. Chances are next government it will be Conservative-led even if they don't get an outright majority.

Re: Brexit
 

Any 2nd vote should only be on a fully agreed and SIGNED OFF(initially just by the EU) set of proposals with the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

I would imagine the options as:
- Theresa's withdrawal deal
- No withdrawal deal
- Remain

But obviously other variations available too! Deciding the question could be a barrier to a People's Vote.

Re: Brexit
 

Remain, but under what terms? With the withdrawal plan option, we have no idea how it will end up.

Re: Brexit
 

If the EU Court decides we can revoke article 50 unilaterally then I imagine it will have to be on the current terms since there is no mechanism for the EU to impose conditions. That said it would be fraught for a bit and we would need to fight our corner strongly....

Whole thing is a mess. I really wish there was a middle ground between the referendum and no deal Brexit that had a majority of people behind it. Both sides are playing all or nothing on this, pushing the country to the brink in the hope their side wins.

I don't know why the ERG are willing to risk Brexit because it's not perfect or why Remainers won't back a Norway option if it came to the table because they think they can overturn the referendum.

Worst of all nothing is getting done in this country for the last two years. It's all been consumed with Brexit and there is no end in sight.

Re: Brexit
 

Well, a curve ball could be the Brexit vote being declared void so we could withdraw Article 50.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8668771.html

Re: Brexit
 

Independent is clickbait. It's not going to be found void even if they did breach spending rules.

Re: Brexit
 

The PM was described by someone at work as being like a velcro covered tick. Everything sticks to her but nothing knocks her down. At least as far as her tenacious ability to cling on to her version of Brexit is concerned.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes another day goes by and the Brexit express has still not been derailed :)

Re: Brexit
 

just wait to deal get defeated on Tuesday ;)

Re: Brexit
 

I think that could be the silver lining of all this mess, it's stopped the Government from meddling :D

Since Thatcher, all Governments have passed a lot of legislation, much of it useless/pointless or undoing the legislation passed by their predecessor. In particular, health and education have both called for a period of stability in the past, but each new Government thinks it has the perfect plan to end all ills.

---------- Post added at 01:40 ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 ----------

Now wouldn't this be a convenient get out clause for the Government to be able to say that the referendum was void and so Brexit must be cancelled?

Alternatively, it would allow them to be able to say that a new referendum must be held and that it's not their fault, they have no alternative.

It would also give the electorate another chance to come up with the 'right' answer.

Edit: Just read that the EU have said that we can keep our rebate if we decide to stay.

Re: Brexit
 

I think we should do what France has done for last two weeks, riot like crazy, it worked for them, Fuel price rises have been halted.

Remainers are being naive, if they think us Brexiteers are going to sit back let us leaving a corrupted EU be cancelled as well as Democracy being destroyed in the U.K. bring the uprising against the EU on.

Re: Brexit
 

I've bought all the pitchforks in the local Asda and Tesco Mick, sadly Lidl, Morrisons and the co-op had already ran out :(

Just say the word and we'll be on the move. ;)

ps, is it ok to wear trilby hats, donkey jackets and knee pads as a uniform?

:D

Re: Brexit
 

Well unless god suddenly comes along to grant Theresa May a miracle the defeat next Tuesday is inevitable.

Re: Brexit
 

Politically it can’t be derailed yet. To minimise the potential for repercussions at the ballot box our MPs have to be able to present it to the electorate as not having another choice.

With 3 months to go pulling the plug looks like meddling.

I prefer to think of Brexit pressing on at 125mph but there’s a set of faulty points nobody knows about just shy of the destination. Derailment is inevitable.

Re: Brexit
 

Chatting with my mates down the pub last night, we came up with a plan to solve all the issues around Brexit for a one off cost of £60bn - give everyone a million quid and we will never speak of the last two years again. Simple eh?

(clearly a silly idea as this isn't lose change and would destroy the UK consumer banking sector, property markets, cause high inflation etc)

Beer powered politics! We raised a glass to Tim Martin as we were in a Wetherspoons at the time :D

Re: Brexit
 

Think your maths is a bit out, more like give everyone a thousand quid.

It's going well isn't it, stockpiling food, Kent turned into a lorry park and only some of us are going to die, even the promise of cheap shoes for the plebs is hollow now and I was relying on them to

Re: Brexit
 

More like a £1,000. You never majored in maths did you?:D

However it still highlights that May's EU bill is around £600 for every man, woman and child in the UK. I could certainly put that money to better use.

Re: Brexit
 

Dammit, the beers were well in by that point! Plain foiled!

Re: Brexit
 

Well to be fair, most plans formulated during a 'session' to tend to have a little 'Baldrick' associated within them :D ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

exactly

Re: Brexit
 

I feel like chewing my own foot off.

Several more days of pointless self flagellation, the deal is dead.

Can we move onto a vote and see what happens next.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------

Who gives a flying.......?

Re: Brexit
 

When people claim these issues are “settled” for a generation they do so on the basis they assume a decisive result. Where the result is narrow, of public opinion moves, the campaign continues. As with Scottish independence, had leaving the EU narrowly lost people would have continued to push for it.

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

Is this the first time Corbyn has outright mentioned a public vote as on option?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...use-vote-nears

I know in the past we have had the woolly “all options are on the table”.

Re: Brexit
 

The only problem with the vote is that it has to be a binary choice like the first referendum.

The deal is dead and is defacto staying in the EU anyway so it should be put to one side.

The referendum should be a straightforward re-run .........Now that all thickos know what bthey are voting for (sarcasm)

Options should be:

1) Withdraw article 50 and remain on the same terms as we were on.

2) Leave with a hard brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

The stupid cretins in the corrupted EU are preventing me from reading a website in America.

Thanks to their GDPR law they introduced this year.

http://www.tribpub.com/gdpr/chicagotribune.com/

Brexit has to happen to escape this stupid corrupted, cancerous empire!!! :afire:

Re: Brexit
 

I thought it was because some newspapers hadn't put a technical solution in place, whilst lots of others had (I have had the same problem with the LA Times website).

I think GDPR is a good thing - people can't keep or use their data if they don't have a legitimate reason for doing so, and have to delete it if you ask them to.

GDPR is a great reminder to businesses that people lend their information and organisations have a responsibility to look after it. It’s not just about confidentiality, it’s about integrity, accuracy and availability – and it’s just plain good business practice.

If you’re managing customer information in a fit and proper way, then requests for that information – known as subject access requests – are nothing to fear.

If a company has done all the right work, finding and disclosing information for a subject access request will be easy to do.

There needs to be a culture change throughout whole businesses too. Data protection needs to be treated in the same manner as health and safety, and managers need to care about protecting their data as much as they care about protecting their employees.

Re: Brexit
 

John McDonnell rejecting Len McCluskey’s view and stating any vote should be between the May deal and Remain.

He also added he would vote to remain in that instance.

So we now have a prominent member of the Labour front bench, and ally of Jeremy Corbyn, stating indirectly he thinks we should remain unless Labour negotiate a better deal.

Another nudge closer.

Re: Brexit
 

The endgame approaches. Unsurprisingly we begin to discover what the various players’ objectives are.

Re: Brexit
 

There isn’t an indication that a Brexit Britain would remove GDPR requirements. I’d be more interested in why those publications haven’t aligned themselves to it.

Re: Brexit
 

Given the vast amount of EU law that will be written into U.K. law next year, it will take quite some time before we understand what is desirable to change, and what the priorities are. I wouldn’t put any significance by the lack of a firm plan to alter the GDPR regulations.

As for why the Chicago Tribune hasn’t complied ... why should it? It isn’t a European company and is entitled to decide it’s more trouble than it’s worth.

Re: Brexit
 

Oh of course they aren’t obliged to, but they’re obviously preferring to give up the extra revenue from clicks as opposed to comply. That makes me more suspicious of their use of user data than of the European Union to be honest.

Re: Brexit
 

If I choose to care what happens to my data via a few clicks, that is MY right to do so - I do not need a corrupted EU empire to decide for me!!!

Re: Brexit
 

But you can. The difference is precisely that it's your choice to do so.

Re: Brexit
 

A VPN would work. At a fraction of the overall cost to the economy of actually leaving the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

It's not hard for them to comply. I can't think what issues they would run into serving articles and if they didn't want to comply with how they hold personal data then simply forbid European Users from having an account.

The only issue I can think of is Facebook or other very personalised tracking cookies, which can be dealt with either by not serving those plugins outside the United States or by having the ol' 'This Website has Cookies please accept blah blah blah'.

My guess is they weren't sure what to do.

Re: Brexit
 

Easily avoided by using a VPN.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46480373

Foolish Liberal Democrat’s giving the game away for their own interests. For the people’s vote to work it has to be because “we have tried everything else”. As our favourite countdown clock regularly reminds us, there is plenty of time.

Re: Brexit
 

Agreed - if there is to be a second Referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

Well if enough people ask Santa then suppose there could be one :D That's the dude that makes dreams come true init :D

Re: Brexit
 

Ha, fat chance . . I've been waiting 55 years for the Scalextric I asked for when I was 9 :D

Re: Brexit
 

It gives the remainers some hope i suppose lol but when they look in their stockings Xmass morning they will be disappointed ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Debated lastMonday in Parliament.

Transcript here.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...condReferendum

Re: Brexit
 

That’s pretty weak.

Re: Brexit
 

I read through about half of the script, interesting view points however I felt the house was mixed on views but most seem to agree we carry on the will of the people

Re: Brexit
 

It's the only option Gavin. Democracy will be carried through,we ain't some backwards undemocratic country that's open to bribery and corruption. That's why we are leaving the EU :)

Re: Brexit
 

Could you explain further please?

Seemed pretty reasonable to me, and good to see the 'will of the people' not taken lightly

Re: Brexit
 

That wasn’t a debate in the chamber it was a Westminster Hall debate consisting of two Conservatives (one a Minister), five Labour and one SNP MP.

It’s impossible to derive any meaningful insight into the voting intentions in the chamber going forward from that discussion.

---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

As above it’s a Westminster Hall debate, so doesn’t hold any of the weight of discussions or matters decided upon (by division or otherwise) in the main chamber.

Re: Brexit
 

aah, you must have missed those pointing out that they were surprised by the low turnout . . . a little like those missing remainers that couldn't be bothered to vote perhaps?

Re: Brexit
 

:clap: :clap:

Re: Brexit
 

There is a world of difference between those who didn’t vote and MPs absent from a Westminster Hall debate.

Indeed, those who were in the main chamber at that time (4.30pm, 3rd December 2018) were listening to the Attorney General begin his statement prior to the vote that the Government was in contempt of Parliament.

Far from “couldn’t be bothered” our Parliamentarians were dealing with matters of critical national importance.

Re: Brexit
 

So . . a petition calling for a second referendum, signed by thousands (possibly even yourself) isn't quite as important as everyone has been making out.

I get it now, thanks ;)

Re: Brexit
 

If you actually read the detail you would see that petition was to not hold a second referendum.

I can assure all honourable members of the forum I was not a signatory.

I do agree however, that petition was unimportant.

Re: Brexit
 

But yet people still get what they asked for, because responsible parents realise it’s important to set realistic expectations and not promise what can’t be delivered to those expecting nice things.

We all know Santa doesn’t exist, so we make sure we plan well in advance and put things in place, rather than having to go to the petrol garage on Christmas Eve and giving people BBQ Charcoal, an overpriced bag of Maltesers, and some beyond best date flowers because we couldn’t be bothered actually trying to work out the impact of what we promised.

Re: Brexit
 

You would still expect more of those who advocate for one to be present to put forward the case.

Re: Brexit
 

Well no, because it’s not a formal debate on the chamber and there were other matters and the vote at the end isn’t binding, merely an an acknowledgment of a petition being submitted.

If it makes the floor of the chamber, which has a reasonable chance, I’d expect all in attendance as the judgement there would be binding (at least, until such times as Parliament unbound itself).

Re: Brexit
 

Well i could argue that WE ALL know what the result was in the referendum regarding leaving the EU or not,But like Santa some like to believe in make believe and prefer to stay in fantasy land as it gives them a warm feeling and makes them feel secure .

These days are drawing to a close now.The EU fantasy is over and good riddance to it.

One of my favorite Quotes : “ If your mind is strong, all difficult things will become easy; if your mind is weak, all easy things will become difficult.” Amen :)

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-thr....co/AzwgZ53lWm

Really? Don’t these people know their history?

---------- Post added at 17:42 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Try lying down in front of a tank, and see how that works out for you...

Re: Brexit
 

Not the first politician is it who does not know the history of Ireland sadly Hugh.:(

Re: Brexit
 

I just did it for you Hugh and i got a lovely view of my 5 inch TinFoil barbs from an upside down position :D

Re: Brexit
 

And this man was the former Brexit secretary..:rolleyes:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...avis-s3wp97jlt

Re: Brexit
 

if only we knew what the end game was!
- Parliament votes for Theresa May's bill?
- Parliament votes to revoke Article 50?
- Parliament asks for a referendum on Theresa May's deal, v remaining?
(No deal is effectively ruled out now by all accounts as Parliament is now asserting its sovereign powers.)

Re: Brexit
 

I personally am getting sick to death of the whole bloody thing. Theresa May reminds me of that evil woman Thatcher,

She has got something in her head and wants to see it through.

This country will be ruined beyond imagination. Major companies are moving abroad and unemployment will reach unmentionable heights.

We the voter have been conned by ALL MPs. who have told us a LOB

The public will suffer. An tonight it was suggested to threaten Northern Ireland with food shortages.
Theresa May should should the best thing for the country and resign. And take it too the country.

The whole thing stinks

Re: Brexit
 

Eh TM was actually a remainer lol :D

Re: Brexit
 

On the contrary. The EU dream is emboldened. The might United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, for all it’s bluster, either fails to leave as specified, or sacrifices its sovereign territory for the dream. Either way, our friends in Brussels get to tell everyone the price of leaving is high.

Quite right too.

Re: Brexit
 

Pay attention Arthur. Nobody threatened anybody and nobody mentioned Northern Ireland.

Re: Brexit
 

A former Brexit secretary. :D

---------- Post added at 23:03 ---------- Previous post was at 22:54 ----------

I guess the only thing that can be said in her defence for her was that she was talking about other negative impacts that would impact upon the Republic of Ireland too like a 7% decrease in GDP. It was not just the food supplies issue she wanted to use as a negotiating lever.
But really - what a terrible way to think of treating one of our major trading partners and allies, on top of the historical situation. :dunce:

---------- Post added at 23:11 ---------- Previous post was at 23:03 ----------

Many of those who believed the "they need us more than we need them" line are now understandably disappointed.

Re: Brexit
 

Indeed, while we behaved like spoiled, petulant children the European Union and developed three coherent strategies.

One: we may remain
Two: we may leave without a deal

Of these two the European Union have no control. Energy hasn’t been wasted on point one, contingencies made for point two. An unfortunate but not unanticipated event.

We are aiming for option three: one which nobody can clearly define, nor confirm they want, that there’s no mandate for in the public or Parliament, and the EU are supposed to fear our powerful negotiating position?

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Once again a failure to understand what “enshrined in law” actually means.

It’s entirely democratic that everyone uses any approach (within civil and criminal law, we used to think this was a given until the Leave campaign) to justify their cause, and indeed bring it forward at every general election they wish.