Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't think you're reading too much into it at all. Remember that the equipment Phorm want to put into the ISP's infrastructure is equipment that the ISP cannot access, monitor, report on, audit or manage.

So neither the ISP nor any other independent (i.e. NON-Phorm) auditor can see anything that the box is doing, has done, or any changes made to the box's configuration.

As an IT professional I find that last point obscene. Allowing an unaudited, and unmanageable presence on a network infrastructure is unthinkable in my eyes.

The ISPs are actually trusting Phorm. That's the scary bit. If I said to any of the IT Directors I know "I want to place a bit of kit on your network that you won't have any access to whatsoever" I know what the response would be. And it wouldn't be pleasant!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I agree completely, even allowing outside users access to a private network involves much form filling in and a method of restricting their access and monitoring wht they do whilst accesing the network.

To do what Virgin and the other ISP's are allowing, would be unthinkable on most companies networks.

They might as well put access passwords onto google !

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That, if I'm reading you correctly, is a nice polite way to say it is stupidity - which as an IT pro I'd totally agree with.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If you're going to put something into your infrastructure you've got to be able to manage it, audit it and be able to provide audit logs. Especially when you're dealing with something as contentious (and illegal IMHO) as this. From a risk management perspective to leave yourself open to legal proceedings because you've accepted a company's word "trust us" when their history suggests otherwise...

It beggars belief.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oooo, he didn't take that very well. He had just enough time before the ban-hammer hit to leave me a negative rep comment. Boo-Hoo:bigcry:
That really hurts:rolleyes:

Anyway, thanks to Capt and the Mods for sorting that kind of silliness out so quickly.

EDIT: It's just struck me that this might sound like a cry for rep points...it isn't. I was just pointing out the childishness involved and thanking the mods.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And me, just checked!

Complete with the language you would expect.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm have made vague PR respones making references to a future independent examination of their source code, but so far it hasn't been examined, and they have not been specific as to how it might be audited, who would do that, and how often it would be done (like after EVERY single update?). The gap between the patent application's technical possibilities and what they say they are actually doing with UK applications of Webwise is quite wide, so I feel regular independent monitoring of the actual software source code and its operation is vital. speaking just as a non-IT person, merely an ISP customer.

BT have insisted the Webwise servers would be within their network and on their premises, and owned or at least leased by them, but the current BT Webwise site is NOT within the BT network and does not bear BT IP addresses. And BT have never claimed they would have control over, or access to the Phorm software, nor do they claim to have examined the source code.

So I agree - it beggars belief.

---------- Post added at 15:59 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------

I'm glad to say he didn't leave me out either.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

We should start a club:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Some positive financial stuff from Charles Stanley

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3eebfede-1...0779fd2ac.html

And on our side the advertising industry seems to be poo pooing the whole idea.

http://www.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread....3044&from=1513

You need to be a member so a quick snip:


"My problem is the valuation and Phorm's lack of any quantitative evidence to back it up. How on earth do you justify a valuation of £175m if you're losing £12m a year? It's crazy and brings memories of 1999 when internet advertising was a bandwagon. Simply saying "internet advertising is the way forward" is not enough. This is not 1999.
Google was making money as soon as it got VC funding. This is no Google.

The entire UK internet advertising capex this year was £2bn of which 3/4 went into search based advertising. The rest mostly went into banners and Phorm related stuff. That's an addressable £500m market of which Phorm can realistically take 70% due to ISP partners or £350m as a maximum. That ain't a huge market even if it growing at 20%. Kent has share options at £500, which tells me he needs his head examined. That's £6 billion. "

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Where are the 80/20 Video's ?

Hi PhormPRTeam ... :dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce:

Maybe then can answer did you get your name from the phormation tool for php ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here's the reply when I emailed Amazon about Phorm and their site: seems they may already be a Phorm partner.

"Dear Customer,

What makes the technology behind OIX and Webwise truly groundbreaking is that it takes consumer privacy protection to a new level. Our technology doesn't store any personally identifiable information or IP addresses, and we don't retain information on user browsing behaviour. So we never know - and can't record - who's browsing, or where they've browsed.

If you have any concerns, please highlight them to your internet service provider.

Thank you for shopping at Amazon.co.uk

Please let us know if this e-mail answered your question:

If yes, click here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/***
If not, click here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/***

Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept incoming e-mail.

To contact us about an unrelated issue, please visit the Help section of our website.
Warmest regards
name (anonymized by me!)
Amazon.co.uk"

A definite whiff of Phorm PR in that one I think. So Amazon look as if they are in bed with Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Damn, that's a shame, I buy loads of stuff off Amazon. Oh well, back to bricks & mortar shops it is.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

NO it wouldnt, you really..., really need to understand this point and not forget it, then pass it on to the next person.

any terms/clause in any consumer contract (T&C) which effect your statutory rights are unlawful (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations) no matter how they word it, its an unlawful clause and so is void (unenforcable, un-actionable,not valid,.....) , and you can ask the OFT have them remove it forceably through court order if needs be etc.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_res...erms-consumer/
Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

of course, you always have option of the Small Claims N1 and on-line versions to use if you so wish, for a direct to the point option, bypassing the OFT or any other Govt Org,and put it before a judge yourself.

we really need to get to grips with this small claim option
and see were we can use it here, just as it was used on the banks....

alexander (when you get to read this OC), did those books clarify the injunction options against named persons inside the board rooms and other executives, and weather an SC can be used BTW?

theres a book on the CAG
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk....php?f=14&a=35
thats made to help you,not cheap though but cheaper than some of alexanders books ;)
Small claims Procedure: A Practical Guide by Patricia Pearl
*****Highly recommended if you want to avoid mistakes*****


the online Small Claims is badly named, but you can also use it for all SC's not just money related, as many Unlawful charges users found out...
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/i...aims/index.htm

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...all_claims.htm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Interesting reply, Robert.

What worries me there is the use of 'our' and 'we'! Let's face it, that reply was written by Phorm/Webwise, not some Amazon CS member.

I also love the buck passing comment sending you back to your ISP if you don't like it.

My wife and I spend a lot of money at Amazon; it'd be a shame to see them go for this crap.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Very True will have to start to look elsewhere for the items I buy from Amazon normally if they are in the OIX platform I shall not be buying from them again.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I am home. The job interview went better than I thought but not as well as I would have liked. Oh well. Will find out by friday hopefully.

Just a quick post to let you all know that today I received a reply from the Earl of Northesk. At the bottom of the email is a UK parliament disclaimer about unauthorised disclosure etc etc.

Annoyingly I forgot to include in my letter (April 1st or thereabouts) that I wanted to publish his response so out of respect for him and the role he has played in this issue so far I wont copy his entire response here but let me just say that I am very pleased with the reply I got and this paragraph in particular:

"At risk of stating the obvious I share your concerns and anxieties in respect
of Phorm's targeted advertising software, not least (if the reports from The
Register are accurate) because of the manifest illegality of BT's trials of
their Webwise product."

All in all I am happy with the response I got and I think it bodes well for Alexanders future meeting next month. I wonder how Alexander is getting on down in London for his interview with Click. *crosses fingers and toes*

Well its been an exhausting day so time to go rest and watch TV for a bit. Be back later.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That reply stinks of Phorm PR. It looks i'll not be using Amazon again

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He he.. I've seen some of the advfn members @BadPhorm. Amazing that there are likeminded individuals who are able to hold their own in threads on investor sites or indeed anywhere where Phorm are likely to be preaching.

Perhaps their new strategy will involve mail-outs because they don't seem to be winning the battle of hearts and minds online. It seems that wherever their PR starts preaching there is going to be one of us to put the record straight.

:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Same here. If you're in OIX then I'm having nothing to do with you.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have emailed Amazon asking them if they have any links with the Phorm/Webwise system or if they are part of the Open Internet Exchange.

If they've signed up with Phorm I'll take my business elsewhere.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Out of curiosity I just enabled webwise cookies and visited Amazon. A webwise.net opt out cookie has been added to my machine.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've had a reply

Thank you for writing to Amazon.co.uk.

Unfortunately, aside from what is already in print, we are not able to
provide the public with any information regarding the inner workings
of our company.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Perhaps people here should know that I have written to the FSA asking them to investigate Lynne Millar's comments on 18th April which may be seen as market abuse. The letter highlight's Phorm's previous conduct in relation to a number of issues.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Isn't part of BT's stratergy to introduce a clause into the T&C's in order to satisfy legal issues?
I would have thought that was illegal and you say that it is. The problem lies in the fact that on several sensitive issues (RIPA) they seem to have proceeded on the advice of the people who uphold the law and what we thought was strictly forbidden turns out to be perfectly OK as long as the criterion in some clause - paragraph three, subsection two is applicable and it's transpired that pivoting on an interpretation of the law, BT just happen to meet it!

I would like to see how they will word any addition to their T&Cs - One thing you can guarantee is that a £1000.00 pound a day barrister will be writing it!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Afternoon all :wavey:

Ok, I've heard back from another of my MEP's

This is an excellent response, and shows that our letters are being read and acted upon. Obviously, as soon as I receive the EU Commissions written answer, I'll post it here.

Ali.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Another thing to notice is the whole real time deletion of data that is mentioned which is complete and utter rubbish why else do they use cookies.
And as for completely unidentifiable ermm so why do i have this random cookie then there should be nothing the cookie is classed by us the user and to them phorm and or anyone else as an identifier, sorry phorm but you dont have the funds, tech or know how to create a TRUE real time deletion.
Nothing is stored on our systems (because half is probably already masked in the cookie?)

If you also notice from nebuad's t&c's (which will more or less be phorms copy and paste) nebuad dosent profile your name,address e.t.c.
really?, lets have a closer look ahh no they dont because as part of the contract they can have all of the isp's account data about you too including ip address, name address e.t.c (smell the fish yet?).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This sounds "invertedly familiar?" with my current ISP's setup.

Im on a semi LLU connection, ie: BT provide my voice service, 3rd parties provide my data service, and if something goes wrong with the DSLAM for instance my ISP cannot access the equipment. BT wont allow anyone other than trained Openreach technicians inside their exchanges.
This results in major headaches for several customers but thats another issue.

The point is my ISP has only limited access and control of their equipment and ive been pondering the possibility of BT altering their Wholesale terms and conditions to include instalation of DPI Equipment on wholesale connections, basicly telling the smaller ISP's "We're installing this equpiment on our last mile of copper and you can either abide by this or run your own copper to each customers home."

I've asked my ISP about this several times and was responded on each turn with deafining silence. Which to be honest i find more than a little unsettling.

Of course im being purely speculative here but a simple reasuring answer from my ISP would go a long way.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Reading this thread today, I suggest members (esp the newer ones) take note of these;

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/90...ble-forum.html
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/90...reminders.html
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/90...m-members.html
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/90...tte-guide.html

Thank you.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have noticed alot of webwise cookies building up on my computer.....anyone shed any light why ?


EDIT....forget that....me being dumb lol

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Don't start me off on BT and Openreach engineers. It's not just headaches they cause, it's stress, stratospheric blood pressure and so much more. Even now the sight of a BT logo ups my BP 30 points. I'm not joking.

Your speculation seems logical to me. I'm not sure of the legality of such a move but if they could get away with it I'm sure BT would go for it. Which could mean that smaller ISPs who have said they won't ever go down the Phorm route might find themselves shafted (can I use this word mod?) by BT...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not sure if anyone Caught this ?

from advfn

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

its not illegal, but it is unenforceable as in a waste of ink if you take the time to pull them about it through the already mentioned ways....

its not the people that uphold the law but rather the people that practice the law, remember, in court one side always losses....

it doesnt matter if its a barrister on £1000 an hour, if theres law to make it against your stat rights (and there is see prior post), thats the way it is.

because you dont pull them about it, that is the reason they get away with it.


just because they call something 'industry practice' does not make it law... or legal.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ----------

url ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Indeed.

I've had a call back from Virgin Media about the BBC article which says that VM "will automatically enrol anyone that does not explicitly ask to be excluded."

I have been advised that this report is wrong. Customers will not be forced to use Phorm if it is implemented. It is still not a foregone certainty that Phorm will be implemented.

So, if you're a VM customer then get writing to
Neil Berkett
CEO, Virgin Media
PO Box 333
Matrix Court
Swansea
SA7 9ZJ

Don't bother with e-mails to customer services. This is the address I've been given to write to in future. After recent outbursts, please keep it professional and civil.

I have already contacted BBC Newswatch about this (not that I expect a response) and this report has now been bought to the attention of higher ups at VM. I took the liberty of pointing VM to the public meeting videos too.

---------- Post added at 18:36 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

OK, so we have three possibilities.

One is that the comment does come from Lynne Millar but now word has gotten out Phorm are denying all knowledge.

Two is that the comment comes from one of Phorm's PR droids. Phorm's PR do have phorm in that area already, after all. Phorm are still denying all knowledge.

Either way there's an argument for possible market abuse here that needs to be investigated. "Ignorance is no excuse" as my law lecturer often said. Yes folks, I did a law unit at college too.

Three is that it's a complete fake. I'm sure the message board concerned logs the IP addresses of everyone who posts so it can be traced and identified. I would certainly hope that to be the case.

In which case what are Phorm's PR drones and supporters doing if they can't spot a fake posting from the company they work for or follow?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

as iv already said way back, after a mear 10 minutes logical thought, there is only one way any of this can be done legally, and its not good for the (like-)Phorm profit model.

there is no Opt-out model that can work ,OR an Opt-In model other than the one below,while they are rapeing the world wide websites for part of their pirated datasets for profit...with layer7 kit installed and based from inside the EU given the existing UK/EU laws .


theres ONLY one single Option that is viable from a fully legal POV, and thats the old 'walled garden' approach, as in, everyone must opt-in to it if they so choose after informed consent.and their going to want their wad/slice of the cake for any such use of their data copyright if they have any sense at all.....

and that includes the websites they intend rapeing for data as well as the user , then anything inside the internal walled garden can not escape ,and more importantly almost nothing can get inside.

i say almost nothing as its possible some users and websites might take outside content and place it inside the wall but thats another story and doesnt concern us as yet......

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You'll need to register there to see it but:

http://www.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread....3044&from=1387

"Phorm JG - 18 Apr'08 - 14:30 - 1388 of 1551

Hi, JG from Phorm IR team here. Just following up from Lynne's post, we're here to clarify inaccuracies that are being posted and to give investors some context for the phorm story.

doowIE, you seem to have grasped the wrong end of the stick as regards Phorm's business model. Click through fees are not the issue; we support both CPC and CPM models and campaigns of both types compete with each other on the basis of their effective CPM (eCPM)

Publishers set the CPM for each ad slot for which they want to enable OIX relevant ads. When the OIX matches a unique user with one or more relevant campaigns, the most valuable ad above the Publisher’s price serves. Phorm and the ISP share the added value that comes with serving a more highly targeted ad – and where there there is a very high differential between the advertiser’s value for that user and the Publisher’s price, Phorm can share in a much higher rate than you list in your example.

For example, if the advertiser sets a £10 CPM to reach an in-market car buyer, and the ad is shown on a long-tail Publisher with a £1 price, the differential is £9, which Phorm splits with the ISP. Conversely, if the Publisher rate is £0.50 and the most valuable campaign is £1.50, Phorm splits the £1 with the ISP.

Fortunately, with Phorm’s perspective on the browsing data, each unique user can potentially have scores of ad campaign opportunities to ensure that an ad will serve in the most ad slots and to the advantage of everyone in the advertising ecosystem.

Take a look at www.phorm.com and the 'Introducing the OIX' flash presentation which shows you revenue flows between the players:

http://www.phorm.com"



AND



Phorm - 18 Apr'08 - 12:09 - 1362 of 1396


Hello, This is Lynne Millar, CFO of Phorm. For some time now, there has been
a great deal of misinformation about the system which we are rolling out
with the UK’s three largest ISPs and what it actually does. That's not
surprising, because it is a complicated system. In an effort to engage with
those who have privacy concerns in particular, we have taken a number of
steps to correct any misinformation and better explain how the system works.
However, we have not to date engaged with the investment community on
bulletin boards such as this one. We will now begin to do so in the interest
of presenting a fair and accurate picture of where we stand. We will not be
introducing new information, simply correcting misperceptions by calling
attention to easily verifiable facts already in the public domain.

Here are the three main areas of misunderstanding:

1) Our three ISP partners have strongly reassured us that they are in
no way reconsidering their decision to deploy or are in any way reducing
their level of commitment to the project

2) All advertisers, agencies and UK publishers that we have a dialogue
with retain a strong interest in our project and eagerly await launch

3) We have taken substantial legal advice and are confident that we
satisfy all legal requirements that could threaten any aspect of our
business model, whether relating to the way the technology works or the way
in which it is deployed.

I will periodically be addressing questions as time permits but
members of our team will be stepping in as necessary to correct glaring
errors of fact.

We are more excited than ever about our project. We are convinced that
over the coming weeks and months, its full significance to the online
advertising industry will be understood in the wider market and the press
and our need for outreach in forums such as this will diminish.


Regards,

Lynne Millar, CFO



:)



.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh good, so the post did come from Lynne Millar. Let's see what the FSA have to say about it now I've put that post into context.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well we would end up paying that isp for little to no full internet access i think popper, as you could try and get on any site but they deny you access to it as you are demed a danger to that website of data carrying and that data could be sold off to another company to make a replica of such a site.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

yes thats true, but they say you can Opt-out on the fly, so they can auto opt you out when you want past the wall, and Opt you back in again when you return, as long as they dont look at the cached data on your harddrive that was placed there from outside.....,hence another story yes!, or perhaps their not as truthful or on the fly as they say perhaps ;)

perhaps id better copywrite this, so 'its my idea, it belongs to me, you cant have it, pay me my fees and ill consider or not, leting you use it non exclusively'

i may put all the fees to a good use ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

and when I clicked the No this isn't satisfactory button I got this email

Dear Customer,

Please ignore my previous email which was sent erroneously. I apologise for the same.

I have reviewed the previous correspondence with you, and I offer my sincere apologies for any misunderstanding thus far.

I do understand your concern in this regard.

I have passed your message on to the appropriate department
in our company for investigation. Customer feedback such as yours
helps us to continue improving the selection and service we
provide. We appreciate the time you've taken to write to us.

If you have any other suggestions for us or would like to make a
comment at another time, please don't hesitate to send us an
e-mail. To do this, please visit our Help Desk at the following URL:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/contact-us

We'll look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for shopping at
Amazon.co.uk.

Warmest regards


named person
Amazon.co.uk

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Somewhat related article on ArsTechnica

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ke-a-buck.html

Seems things on the other side of the pond are in fairly bad shape too, is it just me or have more and more of these shady ad brokers poped up?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Woah, that is quite a turn of tone! That concerns me more than their initial response for some reason:erm:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sounds like an auto-reply stalling email to me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

use the red triangle on the left to receave faster feedback from the mod and action in such cases.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Caught me hook line and sinker then; I'll get me coat.:blush:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Interesting other article on that site about how IP addresses are considered personal data by NJ courts.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...-subpoena.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

you just have to love generic speak :angel:

Security firms scrutinise Phorm
 

Online advert system Phorm could be automatically blocked by security programs, BBC News has learned.

The controversial system is based around small files called cookies that some computer security firms say they may label as "adware" and block.

Other firms are waiting until the system is rolled out until they decide what to do with Phorm cookies.

Phorm said the firm was talking to security companies to explain how its system worked.

Many security firms contacted by BBC News said the tools included in security programs would let computer owners stop the cookie being used.

Privacy fear

Phorm works by watching a user's web browsing habits and then slipping adverts related to that history onto websites that have signed up.

To target ads Phorm, like many other web businesses, uses a small text file called a cookie.

So far three net firms, BT, Virgin and Carphone Warehouse, have signed up for Phorm. Carphone Warehouse has said its customers will have to opt in to the system the other two will automatically enrol anyone that does not explicitly ask to be excluded.

Some computer security companies contacted by the BBC say they may block the cookie that Phorm uses to keep an eye on a web user's habits.

Stefan Lundstrom, an anti-spyware researcher at F-Secure, said it had been in discussion with Phorm about how its system works. He added that it would take a firm decision when the system goes live.

"Phorm have hinted that most ISP's will choose an opt-out solution based on a cookie," he said. "We have expressed our concern that's not informed consent and most likely will meet our detection criteria."

The result would be blocking of the cookie and labelling it as adware.

Simon Heron, managing director of UK security firm Network Box, which provides security services to small businesses, said it would block the cookie initially.

Mr Heron acknowledged Phorm's efforts to abide by the Anti-Spyware Coalition's code of practice and its links with net firms but said security and privacy concerns had driven its blocking decision.

He added: "We will continue to monitor this situation but browsing information is the user's property not the ISP's or anybody else's."

Symantec, Trend Micro and McAfee said they would monitor Phorm as it gets rolled out to see how the cookie is used in practice and whether users need warning about it.

In a statement Symantec said: "At this point we are assessing the full implications of this technology and how it fits into the established criteria we use for categorising and classifying new technologies such as Phorm's."

Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant at Sophos, said because it only provided services to businesses it was unlikely to be called on to block Phorm cookies.

He added that the website Phorm uses to serve up targeted ads would be entered into its security database to give customers the option of blocking that.

"Our aim is to give companies the power to police their users' safe use of the web, rather than disrupt what some may consider legitimate internet traffic," he added.

Greg Day, security analyst at McAfee, said it was still talking to Phorm about how the ad-serving system worked.

"At this point we have not rushed to give it a classification," he said.

Its eventual classification would come down to how the system was used, added Mr Day.

"Is the customer aware of it and do they have the choice of whether to opt in or out?"

Mr Day said that the cookie could end up being blocked by many users if security programs warn them about the tiny file.

"Most people do not differentiate between viruses, worms, mass mailers or trojans," he said. "When they see a pop up from a security vendor they will see it as a bad thing and worry about it."

A spokesman for Phorm said: "The reality of it is that the Phorm cookie is a cookie like any other. It is an inactive piece of text that's dropped on your computer just like any other third party tracking software."

He added that any company that blocked the Phorm cookie could consider blocking cookies from other ad-serving companies, such as Google, which gave users no choice to avoid being shown targeted ads.

He said Phorm was talking to security companies to explain how its system worked so they could understand what it did and respect the methods it used to help people opt out.

EDIT Rob: Do not cut and past large articles, but provide links to the original to avoid breach of copyright. This post has been merged as another Phorm thread wasn't justified

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It just means Amazon's e-mail bot is doing a better job and is more convincing than the Phorm PR Team.;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"This just in...e-mail bot passes Turing Test; Phorm Pr Team fails":D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I was listening to a reading of 2001 this morning which discussed the Turing Test :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

this newest EU survey is dated 17.04.2008 but its only just been put up today, interesting....

http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj...s/index_en.htm

17.04.2008Eurobarometer survey reveals that EU citizens are not yet fully aware of their rights on data protection
Eurobarometer survey reveals that EU citizens are not yet fully aware of their rights on data protection
Eurobarometer survey measures perceptions amongst European data controllers
Results of the two Eurobarometer surveys on data protection awareness in the European Union carried out in 2008:

1. Data Protection in the European Union : Citizens' perceptions (Flash Eurobarometer EB 225)
   • Summary https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/20.gif (PDF File 486 KB)
   • Report https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/20.gif (PDF File 4.2 MB
2. Data Protection in the European Union : Data controllers' perceptions (Flash Eurobarometer EB 226)
   • Summary https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/20.gif (PDF File 329 KB)
   • Report https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/20.gif (PDF File 1.9 MB)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I know exactly where you are with that good Sir. Been there, done that, still got the straightjacket. It really bothers me that I don't see ADSL as an option (I don't even like to think about it to be honest, as the BT/Openreach memories come flooding back my BP goes through the roof :mad::mad::mad: too - that was a few years ago and a 512kbps connection :rolleyes:).

Strangely, I recall very clearly that they couldn't tell me about certain "issues" - that's it, er, not working to us little people - on my line because that was to do with their contract with my ISP (a very small and a very good one). To have told me would "breach the data protection act" apparently :D. I remember the conversation with the muppet^H^H^H^H^H^H Openreach person as if it was 10 minutes ago.

Funny old world, hey!

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, I saw Hillary Clinton on the box and I thought it was a Turing test.

I wonder if Kent was with her, under sniper fire, in Sarajevo?

Seriously, I think Kent has seriously mis-understood the cultural differences between the UK and US. Every time he opens his mouth he seems to drop a clanger, but it's not one that would seem out of place in the US.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Had a reply from another MEP. The most important thing he wrote was:

Ok, we've bombarded our MPs and MEP's. As someone mentioned a few pages ago, we now need to concentrate on educational bodies, schools, library's etc. Has anyone got a letter template they can post up, or pm me, that I can use as a basis for my letter please?

Ali.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://internetcommunications.tmcnet...-my-cookie.htm
"April 22, 2008

Waiter, there's a Phorm in my Cookie

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/04/13.gif By Richard Grigonis
Executive Editor, IP Communications Group

Phorm (News - Alert), formerly known as 121Media, is an online behavioral targeting advertisement technology company based in New York, London and Moscow. The company has been attempting to line up deals with some UK-based ISPs to deliver targeted advertising based on a user's browsing habits by using deep packet inspection.
..."

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technol...wary_of_phorm/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As I understand it "opting out" will just stop you receiving the ads it will not stop your connection being "watched.. And you would have to accept an "opt out" cookie on every browser on every pc in your house, this cookie could well be removed by anti spyware programs leaving you "opted in". The only way to be sure is to use an ISP that does not subscibe to Phorm. So perhaps it would be a good idea to vote on who will stay with Virgin and who will leave. Just looked at the sky user forum and 82% say they will leave Sky if they sign with Phorm. If the same goes for Virgin it could have very serious effects on their future.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Welcome cameraman :)

Don't worry, this board is on the same wavelength as you

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...phorm-isp.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sorted now - paranoia attack over! It wasn't the man on the grassy knoll.

Emails arrived in the wrong order. When I clicked the Not satisfied button, they sent me an email about me not being satisfied with my selected book recommendations. THEN they sent me an email telling me to ignore the earlier correspondence.

So in order of sending

1st response - the Phorm boilerplate stuff indicating Amazon would appear to be in OIX.net
2nd response - (after I clicked the not satisfied button and warned them how I felt about Phorm) - an irrelevant message about the recommendations list and sorry I wasn''t happy with it
3rd response - a "please ignore our earlier message" which I suspect refers to response number 2.

I may get a number 4 of course, but I think the overall message is - "we're part of Phorm and its wonderful"

Of course they are free to contradict that.

BT have promised me a response to my question about whether I am safefrom prosecution or breaching the T&C's of the sites of Amazon, Sky and BBC sites if I was to browse them while signed in to Phorm or having my traffic diverted even if I was signed out. I'll be back.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Welcome Cameraman.

It's interesting that I have seen no results from user poles that even remotely welcome the Webwise system. I wonder why that is:dozey:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And please come back and contribute to this thread as well.:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: Cameraman

(put : eather side of it jackson etal)

you have it right Cameraman, the only real problem is that Virgin Media are the monopoly when it comes to UK cable, unlike the sky users that are already using a BT line and could just get their codes and move to another DSL supplyer on the same bit of wire, the cable users dont have that simple luxury.

perhaps its time to take the monopoly away and open up the network to real 3rd partys, after all the old AOL did have a rebanded ex-pre-VM CM deal so it can be done....

thats were using the current legal small claim options are oyr best collective options right now, alongside the other things we have already done.

readers need to start puting forward all the SC options we have available to us, and put the sequence of events to take, for such action to happen (much as the unlawful charges did recently in educating us all to the power we hold)...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You've obviously missed the (unpublished) BT customer poll that revealed overwhelming customer enthusiasm for this system!!! (Beware - irony warning required)

Their response to me on the matter of their survey claims - quote - It is not common practise for us to release our market research. At this stage we have no plans to release the research conducted by BT but that is not to say we will not provide details in the future. I can confirm that it was conducted by a third party market research agency on behalf of BT and others. It explored both aspects of the Webwise service separately - less irrelevant advertising and the additional protection against online fraud. Furthermore we will of course also review how our up coming trial of the service goes. Ultimately what is important though is that our customers will have a clear choice. end of quote.

See - overwhelming support! You're obviously looking in the wrong places!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Silly me. I really must start accepting everything I'm told without question.
This ability to think for myself and converse with like-minded people is a real hinderance. I shall mend my ways and become a PR/spin sponge. :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've both phoned VM and emailed them and told them if/when Phorm starts I will have a look around for another provider I spend over a £100 a month for my Internet TV and Phone services so they are gonna need to earn lot's from Phorm. What next, selling the option to listen in to our phone calls to anyone who's got a few bob?. The lady I spoke to at VM said had never even heard of Phorm so I told her to google it. Sky must be laughing their nuts off at the number of customers VM are sending them, first the loss of TV channels and now this. I hate Sky but I can see another mass exodus to them on the horizon (I might be one of them)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hank posted the phrase "ISP spy on you" yesterday quoting Patricia Hewitt MP. If we adapt it slightly, we could use it as a strapline in our ongoing mission to boldly go where noone has gone before: "ISPy with my little eye..." :naughty:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ask them on how many people they polled and what age group they were, say you have done your research and the results they got are totally wrong and link them to many polls that have been made about not wanting phorm and if they refuse ask them for the list of questions that the people polled were asked ;).

Funny how talk talk, virgin media, bt and phorm all conducted this same mystery poll lmao ;) check there webwise links/faq's.
My take on it means the research we conducted was from a whole 20 people during 1 friday afternoon in the closest tesco we could find, the form(phorm) and manner of the questioning put was misleading and was to inform and scare the general public that have little knowledge of such subjects, did they even check they were on the internet or was it a case of if you were?.

I guess they will see how accurate the polls are if it ever rolls out ;).

Heres a hint isp's ditch unwanted phorm and webwise - half your bloated and misleading advertising product expenditure and get down to delivering us a service that equals something like we pay before you realise the err's.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In other words "We're not telling you what spun out and vague questions we asked some punters who thought we still used Buzby in our adverts (showing my age there) because everyone would rip them to shreds and expose us for the shysters we are".

Virgin Media aren't handling this issue well either. They should have issued the statement read to me (I urged them to) and mailed to others recently through their press office but by failing to do that they are failing to address the building resentment against their perceived inactivity.

We need to make it crystal clear that the cookie opt out is a fraud. The only acceptable opt out is the network based opt out that keeps your data safe from Phorm.

It's time to take the message to all the communities that you are members of. Whether business or personal, mainstream or minority, get the word out to people that Phorm is a serious threat to privacy and the government is failing to do its duty to the people it serves.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I got a similar stock response from Amazon :-

"Please be informed that the issue you have mentioned has been forwarded to our IT department and we got the following information from them as:

What makes the technology behind OIX and Webwise truly groundbreaking is that it takes consumer privacy protection to a new level. Our technology doesn't store any personally identifiable information or IP addresses, and we don't retain information on user browsing behaviour. So we never know - and can't record - who's browsing, or where they've browsed.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused."

I responded that if they use Phorm then I will no longer use Amazon

Keep up the pressure !

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You hit the nail on the head with your research description. I remember years ago being offered a free tin of cat food while shopping, all I had to do was "sign to prove I had received it". When I looked at the form it said at the top "I agree that my cat prefers this brand of cat food to any other. So I had just become one of the 8 out of 10 users who's cat prefered whiskas. All without being asked the question !!!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: agree totally.
strange thing is though most people still dont know about it like some sort of media dis information going on :mad:.

Exactly camerman - any company worth there salt should be sending a relevant question to ALL users of that isp stating what they want to do and if they agree not dictate by wrong questioning and making up stuff as they go along.

Lol just thought there is it the same 100 people survey's they use for family fortunes ;) or just the isp's thinking of there fortunes :D.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So it didn't touch upon the third aspect of the Webwise service, then? Namely, spying on everything a customer does online regardless of whether they opt-in to receiving "less irrelevant advertising" or not...:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You don't need to - the questions are in bt's quote

Q1. When using the internet would you prefer to see less irrelevant advertising?

Q2. Would you like more protection against online fraud?

I'd bet my house on me not being a million miles away from the actual questions asked.

We're not all stupid at tesco ya know:p: ...probably

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:LOL: ..."something beginning with 'F' ".....Fraud?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes. I agree there needs to be something catchy and I like the ISPy part.

I thought about just saying to people "Phorm is coming" and when they asked what I was on about, telling them to Google it. But they would put in "Form".

I think it needs to be something that points to "webwise", because I think lots of people are starting to at least become aware of Phorm, but it's Webwise they will be conned into.

How about "ISPy with my little eye..." something beginning with W.

Just for a start, I'm sure someone else can do better. Maybe it needs to be incorporated into a graphic.

Remember "Bad Wolf" on Dr Who or "Tell Sid" for another generation?

--- added ----

Anyone remember if there was a catchphrase when BT was privatised?

----

This is interesting

http://www.btplc.com/Thegroup/BTsHis...heetissue2.pdf

It explains all the hype in the early 80's regarding the privatisation of BT.

I wonder what all the Old Tories who drove this through would think of Phorm/Webwise?

It might be worth finding contacts for people like Kenneth Clarke, Norman Lamont, Norman Tebbit, "The bloke who had an affair with his secretary and I can't remember his name", and, of course, what does Maggie think?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:)

Or, to give it an edge implying personal 'threat' "ISPy with my little eye something beginning with U". Short and punchy might be best though - perhaps "ISPy" or "ISPy on U" says it all along with a graphic like you say?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

OK I am back and knackered just for a change.

The interview today was a bit of a farce really. Kent turned up late, then he basically spent the entire "debate" either insulting me directly with personal attacks or insulting the BBC staff by simply refusing to answer their questions.

He said (and I quote) "he [Richard Clayton] thinks Phorm is the best thing to ever happen with online advertising" (I kid you not).

I didn't manage to say much in the interview at all simply because Kent didn't want to stop his tongue flapping and interrupted me at every opportunity.

Oh and apparently "everyone wants Phorm" and I am just a "scaremonger".

I am not sure how the BBC will edit the full discussion, I can't see how they can edit to exclude his rude behaviour without completely removing anything he said and simply showing a picture of him with his foot in his mouth.

Anyway we will have to wait and see.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This is the conservative party in the 1980's could have been anyone of dozens:D

Cecil Parkinson?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I like "ISPy on U".

Only thing is, it needs to lead to more information (could be a web link, lots of options), but how many people know what an ISP is?

We need to churn this through the idea grinder.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

...Something beginning with:

A - "Advertising is the only way the internet will survive" (according to Kent Erturgrul, CEO of Phorm)
B - British government won't stick up for it's citizens
C - Commerical interests trample all over the individual's rights
D - Data Protection Act - What's That?!
E - European Convention on Human Rights - including the Right to a Private Life
F - Too obvious, right? What we'd all like Phorm to do to themselves...
G - GREED - The motivating force behind Phorm
H - Hanff, as in Alexander - Bloody Good Bloke!
I - Intercept - What Phorm want to do with all of your internet data
J - Justice - something the UK seems rather short of at the moment....
K - "Knowledge is Power" - and Phorm are going to know a hell of a lot about you once they start to intercept your web traffic....
L - Loss of Privacy - another great feature brought to you by the boys and girls of Phorm
M - Moscow - the seat of the internationally renown programming team responsible for this invasion of our privacy
N - Network - the place that Phorm will be installing their system, thus removing all control over it's use and purpose from the individual user
O - "Opt-Out" - Phorm's business model to con the average UK internet user into surrendering their privacy for someone else's profit.
P - PHORM - Selling us off to the highest bidder
Q - Q.C. - or Queen' Council - which has apparently provided Phorm with a learned opinion that their system is legal (but they're a bit shy about telling who it is...)
R - RIPA - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2003 - which states that it is illegal to intercept the electronic communications of a UK citizen without informed consent or a warrant
S - SPIN - Apparently, Phorm's only defence against UK consumers' justified indignation at their plans to invade our privacy
T - TalkTalk - The only ISP who has made a public commitment to a proper opt-in system
U - Useless; general consensus on the Webwise system
V - Violation; of at least seven UK laws
W - Webwise; or more accurately, Webdumb: a scam that offers no more protection against phishing attacks than IE7 or Firefox, at the expense of a user's privacy and peace of mind.
X - As in "Ex-Virgin Media Customer" - i.e. what I'll be if they go ahead with Phorm
Y - "You'll like it or lump it" - BT and Virgin Media's apparent attitude to their customers' revolt over the introduction of Phorm
Z - Zero - precisely the amount of control we will have over how our data is used by Phorm to turn a profit

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well done Alexander and thank you.

I hope the BBC decide to inform and educate and let Kent provide the entertainment.

Do you think the BBC could get a response from Richard Clayton to Kent's Quote?

Well done once again. :clap:

--------

Someone is getting worried!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He insulted you personally, in front of witnesses, and on camera? That's disgraceful!

A simple case of what happens when you don't have your PR drones along to answer for you; the man has just shown himself for what he really is, just like he did at the 80/20 meeting (IMHO).

Well done, Alexander.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sounds like he's rattled :)

Hopefully, everyone who would be affected by a Phorm deployment :)

Hrhrhrhr! You're enjoying this aren't you? :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Dunno about the BBC re Dr Clayton, but I have his email address at hand and you can be damn sure I will contacting him tomorrow, it is worth it just for the laugh it will raise down there in Cambridge.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------

I felt like saying "I must be a bloody good scaremonger judging by the performance of Phorm's shares over the past 2 months." but alas I am polite and don't resort to personal attacks. Some might consider I am more professional than Kent ;) and according to my badge, I am an IT Specialist so you better watch out ;)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well done Alexander seems Kent is as we still thought rotten to the core...

He must be really worried about you something you have picked up on is his weak link just what.. or is it the whole package that is the weak link phorm itself.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think you did the right thing and took the high moral ground, Alexander. I'd expect nothing less from you! Well done and I look forward to seeing how the BBC choose to pitch this...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap:

O - "Opt-In" - Four letter word that must never be used by Phorm employees, PR teams or spin doctors.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Didn't think I was going to make it home to be honest. Engine Management light came on on the dash just outside Harrow and it looks like my head gasket might be in need of renewing.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I get it. A bit like that Olympic logo - always changing. Something different every time.

:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:DThink of it as a boxing match in which you're well ahead on points. Keep on doing what you're doing. And thank you.

Sorta urban, dynamic, energetic and... crap? :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I notice that over 12000 people have now signed the anti phorm petition !

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/

A certain 'Alex Brown' has also signed , I wonder if this is the senior network chap at VM ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

...or related to the PM? :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He really was very rude. I started driving to London at 8am this morning and walked from Earl's Court to Olympia because the underground was only every 30 minutes and I would have been 2 minutes late if I waited for the train. I literally shed blood today to make sure I arrived on time out of respect, the blisters on my feet are horrendous and I have Lederhose Disease in my right foot.

Kent lives in London and shows up 30 minutes late. There is no excuse for that, it was disrespectful of the BBC who were covering the ITSec event and therefore had a pretty busy schedule.

I could go on and on about his general attitude, the fact that pretty much every answer he gave to the BBC presenter was about Google etc. being evil and logging everything we do, irrespective what the question was that he was actually being asked. He referred to me countless times as a "scaremonger" "anti commerce" "paranoid" and a host of other personal attacks.

We were asked to turn our phones off just before they started shooting. I didn't do anything so Kent repeated it to me and I explain I have no cell phone. He laughed and I explained I cancelled my cell phone at Christmas as I wasn't happy with the changes to RIPA in October which require cell companies to log and retain more details on cell phone usage. So he kept bringing this up in the interview too, with comments like "how can you listen to a person who cancelled his cell phone because he doesn't like being spied on." I was forced to explain to Kent that actually, it has nothing to do with being spied on and that my decision to cancel my cell phone after 8 years was a political one. But still he kept bringing it up until Dan Simmons had to eventually step out from behind the camera and tell him to stop.

I wish there had been a live audience, I really do, his behaviour was appalling.

On the other side of the coin, the BBC guys were very pleasant, chatty and down to earth people. Was a pleasure to meet them all.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, yeah. I'll admit that with the olympic logo, but that's not what I meant.

Maybe there could be a graphic that spun up the "ISPy ... bit" with one of lucevans questions at random.:D

(Nice one BTW lucevans) :tu:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wow. What an a**hole. I'm usually prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt, but he really does sound like an unpleasant character. And this is the sort of person VM want us to trust to only intercept our data "anonymously"? :erm:
On the upside, perhaps this inexcusable behaviour on his part is a symptom that his business is falling down around his ears? (I believe he has a lot of money personally tied-up in Phorm, so if he's feeling vulnerable, maybe he's showing it...?)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex, his behaviour seems a positive sign. I wonder when he will jump to his feet in exasperation and call you a luddite? Go and take a well earned rest my friend.

Sounds v cool to me ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I sincerely hope his shareholders do *NOT* remove him soon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Actually I was hoping he would plant me, I would happily take one on the chin for the opportunity to sue Phorm out of existence and given the school yard level of his behaviour I thought I might be in with a chance.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, just remember he needs to visit the showers in the scrubs first, then take an HMG assisted flight out of the country.

----

It's going to get nasty from now on I think.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh I think I met Alex@Phorm too, Kent arrived with a chap from Phorm called Alex. Alex didn't say anything though other than hello and goodbye.

Alexander Hanff