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-   -   Corbyn's kerfuffle (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33702119)

Osem 24-09-2016 15:01
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntluser (Post 35860347)
It's no real surprise that Jeremy Corbyn has won because he is obviously popular with Labour party supporters.

However, Labour party voters seemed to have not realised that though Corbyn is popular with them he has to be popular with non-Labour voters too.

At general elections roughly 30% of voters vote Labour and roughly another 30% vote Conservative with the remaining 40% consisting of Lib-Dem, UKIP, Green and Independent candidate supporters.

To win an election it follows that both Labour and the Conservatives have to appeal to members of that 40% group in order to achieve victory. Given that is the case it is unlikely that a hard left or a hard right manifesto will win the day.

So it may well be that Jeremy Corbyn has won the battle to stay leader of the party, but unless things change, Labour will lose the war for the hearts and minds of voters in the middle ground.

It will be interesting to see what changes in policy and action are made as a consequence of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership victory especially as Labour has a major credibility problem with running the economy effectively and efficiently and is viewed by many as a lapdog of the unions.
Yup. A whole lot of people seem to be deluded about Labour's future under Corbyn. Judging by what I saw on the TV earlier, after the result of the vote, some Labour folks even seem to think he's a great leader but I really can't see how anyone can claim leadership's his forte... :spin:

Those who've paid their few quid to join Labour might be patting themselves on the back about this result but the reality is that without all those Scottish seats which used to be nailed on certainties, Labour has to appeal to an awful lot of people who clearly don't like Corbyn's 'new politics' and wouldn't trust Labour with him at the helm or anywhere near it.

rhyds 24-09-2016 15:11
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Well, the Labour membership has spoken, and it has made it clear it wants to keep Corbyn in place.

Owen Smith, to his credit, stood up to offer the party an alternative when none of the big hitters (Alan Johnson, Dan Jarvis, Margaret Hodge, Harriet Harman) had the guts to. I'm sure he'll be quietly sidelined and/or deselected for his trouble.

Now, the Labour party must get back to its actual job of being Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. Its up to Corbyn to find a way to bring those capable MPs in the parliamentary party back in to his shadow cabinet and build a team that can work together. That's the job of a party leader, and that is what he struggles to do.

ntluser 24-09-2016 15:13
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35860350)
Yup. A whole lot of people seem to be deluded about Labour's future under Corbyn. Judging by what I saw on the TV earlier, after the result of the vote, some Labour folks even seem to think he's a great leader but I really can't see how anyone can claim leadership's his forte... :spin:

Those who've paid their few quid to join Labour might be patting themselves on the back about this result but the reality is that without all those Scottish seats which used to be nailed on certainties, Labour has to appeal to an awful lot of people who clearly don't like Corbyn's 'new politics' and wouldn't trust Labour with him at the helm or anywhere near it.
The funny thing about it is that he seemed more animated and coherent in the hustings than he is in the House Of Commons!! LOL!!

The only way that Labour will win is with Corbyn, the Labour MPs, Labour activists and Unions creating and supporting a good set of well-planned, fully costed policies that appeal to all voters.

Osem 24-09-2016 15:26
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds (Post 35860352)
Well, the Labour membership has spoken, and it has made it clear it wants to keep Corbyn in place.

Owen Smith, to his credit, stood up to offer the party an alternative when none of the big hitters (Alan Johnson, Dan Jarvis, Margaret Hodge, Harriet Harman) had the guts to. I'm sure he'll be quietly sidelined and/or deselected for his trouble.

Now, the Labour party must get back to its actual job of being Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. Its up to Corbyn to find a way to bring those capable MPs in the parliamentary party back in to his shadow cabinet and build a team that can work together. That's the job of a party leader, and that is what he struggles to do.
Can you imagine the reception any of those who've consistently rubbished and even 'mugged' Corbyn 'in cold blood' (according to Baroness Chakrabati) are going to get if they're reinstated on the front benches. Not only will the media have a field day reminding them of how inept they've told us all he is but the angry activists will feel those who were loyal to Corbyn will have been rewarded with demotion.

The next few months are going to tell us a great deal about the integrity of a great many leading Labour figures.

Pierre 24-09-2016 17:50
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
The labour front bench will be populated by no marks.

Looking forward to nine more years of conservative government ? No? Well you'll have to get used to it.

RizzyKing 25-09-2016 03:30
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
If labour came out tomorrow with the perfect manifesto it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if corbyn is still the leader he is unelectable to the majority of this country and that won't change. Him winning has ended credible political opposition in this country at least till after the next election and who will the loons replace him with i can't believe it will be anyone better. This whole episode after the circus that was the EU referendum campaign has cemented the UK as a political and an international joke there's nothing positive in any of this except that those of us who thought the standards had bottomed out during the EU vote have seen it can go lower.

papa smurf 25-09-2016 08:28
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
i think the anti corbyn brigade have relentlessly thrown as much muck at him as possible and he has emerged even stronger ,perhaps the people are ready for a new kind of politics its just the establishment haven't been listening ,power to the people ? :shrug:

i'm still supporting ukip some think that's pointless but the game aint over till the final whistle blows

Osem 25-09-2016 09:45
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Corbyn's certainly not stronger amongst those Labour needs to win over if they're to have any chance of power.

Then there are these:

Quote:
More than half of Labour's supporters who voted to leave the European Union would now back other parties at a general election, according to a new poll.

Just 48% of Labour voters at last year's election who support Brexit will continue to support the party, the YouGov poll for The Times found.

Nine per cent have switched to the Tories, 8% to Ukip, and a quarter are not yet sure what they will do.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7325581.html


... and just to add further scope for division in his own party:

Quote:
Jeremy Corbyn has vowed to give more say over policy-making to grass-roots Labour supporters to help build a "more equal and decent society".
The newly re-elected Labour leader said there was a desire to do things differently, promising "real-time" online debates about policy positions.
MPs critical of his leadership should now focus on "making the party and the movement stronger", he told the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37466034

I think Corbyn's been marginalised for so long that he's become used to it...

papa smurf 25-09-2016 11:06
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35860407)
Corbyn's certainly not stronger amongst those Labour needs to win over if they're to have any chance of power.

Then there are these:



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7325581.html


... and just to add further scope for division in his own party:


power to the people

power to the people ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37466034

I think Corbyn's been marginalised for so long that he's become used to it...

GrimUpNorth 25-09-2016 12:06
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
To me the worrying thing is many 'younger' people I know (<30 years) seem pretty impressed with him. They like his style and delivery and now seem to be taking an interest in 'mainstream' politics when 18 months ago they'd shown no interest at all.

Jr was over the moon last night and from what she was saying her colleagues and friends hold similar views. She always felt the Labour party she'd known (she's 26) was no different to the others so was a waste of time. I reckon she's now a Labour convert - no more voting for TUSC for her.

I think the leadership election has shown JC has strong appeal with those who felt disenfranchised and if a sizeable chunk of the 33.9% who didn't vote in 2015 (plus those not registered) decide to give him a try then who knows the possible outcome.

If the Labour party also come out as pro remain then there's another chunk of people who may decide to have a punt.

It's scary but might not be as cut and dried as some think. Remember the 'experts' haven't done too well at gauging the mood of the electorate at the last 2 national outings to the ballot box.

Cheers

Grim

Osem 25-09-2016 12:53
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Power to the people? Very catchy - a future election slogan I'm sure. :)

I hope Corbyn doesn't regret* giving more power to people who'll be expecting results Labour can't achieve if they're not in office and aren't even a functioning opposition. To date, he's had a long career achieving precisely nothing on a national level but I'm sure he can turn it all around. ;)

(*actually I hope he does regret it)

Osem 25-09-2016 18:06
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Oh dear, McDonnell's not too distant nastiness just keeps coming back to haunt him. I thought Corbyn's new politics was supposed to include clamping down on this sort of thing. :shrug: Maybe he doesn't feel his pal said anything to warrant an apology but Labour can hardly accuse others of condoning nastiness when they're not beyond stooping to the level of the gutter themselves when it suits.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...nching-8910718

Meanwhile that well known nasty Tory Hilary Benn reckons:

Quote:
Senior Labour figures who resigned from Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet have urged members not to abandon the party and stay and fight for their beliefs.
Former shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn told activists they should "rise above the most vile abuse" being thrown at them by other members of the party.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37468208

techguyone 25-09-2016 19:33
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 35860436)

It's scary but might not be as cut and dried as some think. Remember the 'experts' haven't done too well at gauging the mood of the electorate at the last 2 national outings to the ballot box.

Cheers

Grim
Good post, but certainly in the last 2 GE's the pollsters got it pretty much spot on - the Brexit vote not so much.

Osem 25-09-2016 20:01
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone (Post 35860507)
Good post, but certainly in the last 2 GE's the pollsters got it pretty much spot on - the Brexit vote not so much.
True but the pollsters don't have to guess at the maths involved in Labour gaining enough seats to win power. Forthcoming boundary changes only add to their electoral woes I believe. It doesn't matter how many people join the Labour Party and support Corbyn unless that translates into seats.

Chrysalis 25-09-2016 22:19
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35860099)
I think its an almost certainty that Corbyn will win the battle. BUT, he will never be PM. The public wont have it.

Corbyn is not prepared to take on the major issues that the working class are talking about.
Bedroom Tax, Food Banks which have now become a major issue in the UK.

The working class of this country deserve better that a prat like Corbyn.

I would say by Xmas, we will have another party to take on Labour - within the party.

Labour cannot keep running like it is. We are well behind in the surveys.
He is the one guy who will be vocal about it given how left wing he is, he is the only person e.g. who isnt following the sheep saying welfare cuts must stay.

Of course a lot of people hate corbyn and I would be very surprised if he won an election but he is a more credible opposition than the most recent labour leader who just rubber stamped everything the tories did in fear of been seen as representing the toxic jobless.

---------- Post added at 22:19 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35860344)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...e-win-but-fac/

I love this quote That would be the Leader, who when he was a backbencher, voted against his own Party line over 500 times... :D
voting against is a bit different to how he was treated by his cabinet ministers tho.

Did he issue votes of no confidence as a backbencher, pubicly say his leader was wrong for the party etc?


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