Re: Coronavirus
 

Yup Hugh, twas me. Nice to know someone else who has been taking part. :tu: :tu:

Just in case anyone else would care to take part, here's a link to the app which also contains links to all the reports and updates that have been posted so far.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/the-2...eid=cf0968cd42

It honestly only takes a minute a day to fill in your current health level, and you can even add other people to your app.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Us Brits can strike back at the EU and boycott all EU countries for holiday.


Go to Iceland, Norway or Switzerland none of which are in the EU.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think we'll all be holidaying in the UK this year through necessity not choice. And Switzerland has not yet approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, so I'm not sure if they would consider you vaccinated if you've had that vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nothing shouts golden summer seaside tan more than those destinations :erm:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Quite a nice graphic here from AstraZeneca on the Covid vaccine process from development to distribution.
https://www.astrazeneca.com/what-sci...the-globe.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

AstraZeneca has published latest data after a surprisingly public rebuke from US authorities. Overall efficacy reduces from 79% to 76% while efficacy in the over 65s improves from 80% to 85%. So hardly worth all the fuss. At either the higher or the lower figures, the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is highly effective.

You have to wonder what the real problem is here. What have Americans and so many Europeans got against a safe, highly effective and easily distributed vaccine being available to the world at cost? :scratch:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56521166

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is a long article but really worth a read. It's a Sky investigation into what's going on with the AstraZeneca rollout "It's the story of Europe's vaccine rollout, but it may not be the story that you think it is."
https://news.sky.com/story/they-have...-game-12255905

---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

Not really a European issue now (just the Swiss to ok it now I think) but international - Japan and the US and other countries have yet to approve.

Re: Coronavirus
 

In the USA, the FDA are sticklers for process and accuracy of the info provided (my brother-in-law has a lot of dealings with them), and if you don’t follow the process, or there are concerns that the supplied data has issues, they can be very heavy-handed.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So how does the rest of the universe regard the pfizer vaccine? Is that still being assessed by the universe?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pfizer was the first vaccine to be approved by the WHO and is being exported from Belgium worldwide including UAE, Hong Kong, Mexico and Canada. (USA production is just for USA).

The article below from last month lists the countries it was approved in then.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-...ccine/13157332

The AstraZeneca vaccine is the cheapest vaccine available so its success is strategically important to contain the virus globally, not just wealthier countries.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That article reads like a conclusion in search of an argument. "not the story that you think it is" is the line handed to the journalist by his news desk. Everything else is arranged so as to support that line. The result is a number of pretty glaring inconsistencies and assertions that really ought to have been questioned, but haven't been.

The first is Parsons' failure to account for the differences in the nature and the background to the contacts signed by the UK and the EU with AZ. He attributes far too much weight to the dating of the final purchase contracts and their similar wording, but having observed that AZ had a prior relationship, and an initial contract with the UK government from months prior, he fails to explore the logical outcome of that. The UK government substantially funded Oxford's work and introduced Oxford to AZ in the first place, precisely in order to secure domestic production and guaranteed supply. This was publicly known at the time. How could the EU negotiators be ignorant of that? How could they think that anything in their contract with AZ would supersede anything previously arranged with the UK? That smacks of serious ineptitude.

Second, his German source lets slip that there are AZ vaccines sitting in fridges for 12 weeks against the second dose requirement. Yet the UK has consistently been portrayed as a lone wolf in pursuing the 12 week strategy. When did that change in Germany? It's worth a sidebar at least, but Parsons doesn't seem interested.

Third, the EU would by now have vaccinated around 25%, rather than its dismal 11%, had it had all the vaccine it was expecting. Yet this is still comfortably behind the US and far behind the UK, which has achieved almost double that by now. So where is the remaining problem in vaccine planning in the EU? Is it in national plans to distribute the vaccine, or is it in the EU's procurement strategy?

Fourth, and finally from me for now, though I'm sure there are others: does the EU really think this is a contractual issue with a commercial enterprise, or not? That is its assertion, and that's the line Parsons meekly adopts. But that is inconsistent with the EU's continual reference to the number of vaccines it claims to have exported and its constant complaining about lack of reciprocity. If this is a contractual issue between the EU and a commercial enterprise, then the number of vaccines made and exported by a different commercial enterprise is irrelevant. They are completely unconnected. Pfizer is fulfilling a contract with its customer. The EU neither owns Pfizer's product, nor is the EU responsible for exporting it. It has created no relationship with the recipient of the Pfizer vaccine, much less one that creates an obligation of reciprocity. All of the talk about the EU 'exporting' and complaining about lack of reciprocity is not an EU-AZ issue, it is an EU-UK issue. And that's the elephant in the room Parsons has ignored above all. The EU's attitude to all of this is quite blatantly being driven by lingering Brexit resentment and a UK triumph as a direct point of comparison with an EU failure.

Having read Adam Parsons' piece for Sky News, I'm forced to conclude that Europe's vaccine blame game is exactly the story I thought it was, and it is the ineptitude of the European Commission that is toying with people's lives, not the actions of a company that is making and distributing the vaccine, according to best effort, as agreed with its customers.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I suppose the flip side to that question is what have Astrazenica got against being open and transparent about their data.

Much of this would have been avoided had they not issued the haphazard press release the day after Pfizer claiming 62/70/90% efficacy. Other selective studies have been pulled out at random to come out with other figures.

A 70% efficacy vaccine isn't a bad vaccine. But rather than focus on the positives of availability, cost and relative ease of distribution chains there has been a focus on aiming for a 90% figure.

In other news I got my first dose today.

Re: Coronavirus
 

AstraZeneca has suggested that the urgent nature of the situation led it to publish what it had earlier rather than wait to publish more later. In the past some have observed that AstraZeneca lacks experience in vaccine development. The USA’s response to it was however extremely heavy handed, though as Hugh has since suggested that might just be typical of the institutional culture of the FDA.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The authorities in the USA told them in advance for their press release the figures to include. They chose not to. I doubt that's inexperience in vaccine development so much as plenty of experience in PR.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How so? The overall efficacy figure dropped by a mere 3 points. The efficacy figure for over-65s, which is the most important one because those are the ones it most often kills, improved by 5 points. If they actually did know those figures and wilfully chose not to use them, qui bono?

Re: Coronavirus
 

All the drama over a measly 3% makes me think the US regulators were trying to drag the vaccine through the mud. There was no need to issue a public rebuke for such a minor discrepancy.

I am not usually the conspiracy minded type but I can't help but think that there is a reason the only vaccine that is being sold at cost has such a campaign against it despite studies and real-world data showing hardly any difference from the dramatically more expensive vaccines.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unfortunately, by "sodding the EU", we are talking about the negative impact on real people, not just the politicians who are screwing stuff up... :(

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Drug regulators don't work on 'close enough'. If the submitter revises the data, all hell breaks loose - why was the figure changed? Why was the previous figure wrong? How is the new figure right? Have you reviewed the rest of your submitted data in light of this change?

Many on this forum disregard studies if even the tiniest aspect doesn't match what actually happened. Drug Regulators are this writ large. If one figure was incorrect, then they assume all figures are incorrect until proved otherwise.

The US pumped $1bn into the development of this vaccine. They definitely have an interest here

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good stuff, I'm supposed to get my second jab early may, just wondering if they'll have enough vaccines to meet this date.

---------- Post added at 17:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

Same here, I use the app every day, had it on my phone since it first came out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Dr Xand (virologist) said on todays Morning Live (BBC1) that Matt Hancock put his hand out to shake his hand soon after the start of the pandemic. When Dr Xand politely declined to do so by saying that he was no longer shaking hands, Hancock said that it was ok because the virus didn't spread that way :shocked:

The idiot in charge of our health thought he knew better than a virologist!

Re: Coronavirus
 

He's learnt since then and he expelled Merck from its partnership with Oxford in favour of AstraZeneca so we can forgive this old transgression. His PPE procurement is another matter, though...

---------- Post added at 17:57 ---------- Previous post was at 17:55 ----------

Yes, that's why they're reducing new recipients from Monday so they can use it for second doses for existing recipients.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah good, thx for that, Andrew, didn't realise that they would do that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not sure what you are getting at here, jfman, as you explain yourself in convoluted ways. How does your statement relate to what I said?

However, what I would say here is that the fact that EU countries are now facing a third wave demonstrates the futility of lockdowns. It also clarifies that vaccines are the only answer to this pandemic.

The only alternative is lockdown after lockdown after lockdown until herd immunity is achieved.

Which is what I have been saying all along.

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

I've already imposed a ban on European wine and other EU products until they stop this nonsense. If enough people do the same, the EU will certainly notice.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We’ve had our third wave, unless the contention is that the second one never really ended and ran from November right through to now.

Vaccines are the answer? I’m quite sure if I tried hard enough I’d find you scoffing at that idea around six months ago. So many contradictions I don’t even know where to start.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Is that end products made in the EU, or products with (any/some) ingredients of EU origin, or products produced wholly in the UK but by companies of EU ownership, or by companies with ANY EU ownership or any combination of the above? I could go on but I think you'll get the point that it's looking like another oy your (rather pompous) unthought out statements that if you think about it would be pretty much impossible to stick to in these days international capitalism.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I do love a romance ! :romance:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wow. I bet it’s a laugh a minute in your personal 1970s ITV sit com. Have you leafleted the neighbours to try to get them to join in? You could also try picketing the corner shop.

“Next on ITV4 it’s classic “Old Boy’s World,” and Malcolm’s decided to take a stand against the Common Market...”

Is Mrs Old Boy routinely described by the TV Times as “long suffering”?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Tbh that sounds quite good. Send the script in. It would give 'On the Buses' some competition :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

More like mind your language or love thy neighbour

Re: Coronavirus
 

True. "Currry and chips" was another classic. it starred a blacked up Spike Milligan as an Irishman of Pakistani heritage named Kevin O'Grady. It was cancelled before they were all broadcast...

Suspect we'll be told off soon for being off topic, but 70's sitcoms are more interesting than Covid .

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not sure Old Boy would allow it to be shown on ailing linear TV. ;)

Perhaps it could go straight to streaming on BritBox? :D

---------- Post added at 20:23 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

VM's new software TV 360 is coded in the Netherlands, I believe, so Old Boy had better not upgrade to that software. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

And what's he going to do when the VM/O2 merger goes through, what with O2 being Spanish owned. Hope he's going to be true to his word and give his notice rather than send his money to the enemy every month. I won't hold my breath.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Better not mention the Polish and Romanian software that's already on his V6s. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Netflix European HQ is in Amsterdam, Amazon European HQ is in Luxembourg, Apple European HQ is in Cork - he'll have to give up all those streaming services...

Re: Coronavirus
 

But he's still got the British Broadcasting Corporation. British money for British programmes. No one can take Gardener's World or the Antiques Roadshow away from us, however much the evil EU might try.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is an interesting observation.
https://www.ft.com/content/7df5e368-...3-5b2e623ce708

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, that sounds about right. It’s never nice to have to learn how to do PR while you’re in the middle of a crisis. There are however specialist in the field they can turn to, once they accept they have to.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/w...trazeneca.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

Has anyone been watching BBC News this morning? One of their reporters has been in the Wockhardt factory in Wrexham where they do the fill/finish for the AZ vaccine (it's not made there by the way, despite the headline) It was really good! Here's a link - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-56450968

---------- Post added at 09:06 ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 ----------

What are EU products though. Say for example a vaccine made for COVID was manufactured in the UK but had 97% EU sourced ingredients and packaged in vials from Germany, is that British or EU sourced? If the company who made it was 50% Swedish, would you only have half a dose?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

But that's not what OLD BOY is saying - he is saying boycott all EU goods, not just the ones where it isn't inconvenient...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Much as I'm amused by the boycotts taking place in a leafy corner of Berkshire, should you not be boycotting Indian and US companies instead?

These countries have actually prevented vaccine exports to the UK whilst the EU hasn't and has sent us 21m doses.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The imbalance that the EU perceives between the EU and the UK, arises from two main factors. 1) They were later in approving any vaccines, so EU-produced vaccines had nowhere else to go. 2) The Pfizer vaccine isn't made in the UK, so there can only be one-way traffic with that.
The UK, and the World, got lucky in that the AZ vaccine works and has been approved. Otherwise there would be a UK and worldwide shortage at the moment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just think, you're little bit of hypocritically selective boycotting might work and could be just enough to make the EU stop vaccine exports all together, resulting in you being the reason you (and many thousands of others) do not get their second vaccine after all because I'd expect the UK is relying on some new batches of vaccines arriving in the UK to cover some of the second doses ;).

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seph and Max (I think) have both raised the issue of vaccine stocks for second doses. I'd be very confident there will be no issue for second doses - the numbers involved relative to how the vaccination programme has scaled up over the last 12 weeks is small. While we may get less than expected volumes the priority will undoubtedly be on second doses.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Those Americans are just bitter about the war of 1812 and our burning of the White House. Never forgiven us for it and that's why they hate the AZ vaccine...

(India has every right to bear some anti-UK grudges based on UK actions in living memory)

Re: Coronavirus
 

So we've now alienated everyone else in the world, even our closest neighbours. Bodes well for the future.
China now feels they can bully us too, without any meaningful consequence.
Scotland wants to leave.
Ireland will be reunited in the not too distant future.
Very little England with no friends. .

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who needs enemies with friends like that :D

Apparently UFO sightings are down too, so we've somehow upset the aliens also :p:

Re: Coronavirus
 

A point of information: the EU hasn't sent us a sausage. A company which has directly contracted with the UK government has begun fulfilling that contract by sending vaccines here, from its factory in Belgium. There is no EU largesse here, unless of course we are to understand that the ability of any business to export its products is a privilege to be bestowed or withdrawn on a whim.

The 'but we're exporting more than anyone' line is a piece of PR smoke-and-mirrors, an attempt by the European Commission to both have its cake and eat it. It can't simultaneously claim that its problem with AstraZeneca is with the company, not the UK, while at the same time claiming credit for the vaccine exports of other companies.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think Andrews argument is that the EU has the power to ban exports if it wanted to but to this stage has not. India is starting to restrict exports already and the USA has a virtual ban in exports already. However, this doesn't seem to raise the same levels of ire...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly.

People seem angrier with a bloc of countries that has sent us 21m vaccines and has no export ban in place than with countries that have imposed export bans and in the case of the USA, have sent us no vaccines at all!

It doesn't seem entirely logical.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As usual, posters on here have to be pedantic to the extreme. Seph is right, I was referring to EU goods such as French cheese, etc. I do not have the time or the inclination to investigate whether there is a tiny EU component in every product I buy.

If everyone who was annoyed with EU shenanigans boycotted products that were clearly and unambiguously made in the EU, this would have a significant impact on their economies that might just make them think again.

After all, we are only looking for a friendly trading arrangement with the EU, but outside the EU. There is absolutely no need for this hostility.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Again, I’m going to insist on correct terminology here because it makes a difference.

No bloc of countries has sent us a single vaccine. A drug company has done so, from its manufacturing site in Belgium. That’s important, because the EU is trying to defend its export control plans based on a completely bogus appeal to reciprocity (this week, at least, it’s reciprocity between nations - last week it was all to do with extra-judicial punishment of manufacturers the EU claimed had failed to fulfil contract).

Vaccine export is a matter of foreign policy when it suits them, and a matter of contract law, likewise, when it suits them. Their position is fundamentally dishonest. Either they have an emergency, and are invoking emergency controls, or they aren’t.

The positions in the United States and in India are, conversely, very clear. The USA invoked emergency legislation to prevent all exports. We knew from very early on they were likely to do this, which is why Oxford’s naive attempt to tie up with Merck, which would have manufactured in the US, was overruled by the UK government in favour of AstraZeneca.

India, likewise, isn’t farting around trying to pretend it’s doing something other than what it is. It, too, is invoking emergency powers to ensure the spreading pandemic in India is addressed quickly. Frankly I think they are quite right to do so. I wouldn’t feel too great about receiving a vaccine manufactured in India as it can do a whole lot more good over there.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good news for vaccine production in Europe.

EMA has approved the Halix plant that manufactures the AstraZeneca vaccine in the Netherlands and a new BioNTech site in the German town of Marburg which the company acquired from Novartis in September. The latter site will produce up to 1bn doses per year once it reaches full capacity in the next few months.

EMA is also allowing the Pfizer vaccine to be transported at normal freezer temperatures for a one-off period of two weeks to help speed up the roll-out.

https://www.ft.com/content/5673962a-...7-ee280e5022fa

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The irony is overwhelming...:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

yet another paywall


will it ever reach full capacity is the question.

Re: Coronavirus
 

1 Billion doses per year - just from one site - suggests Covid isn't going away any time soon, therefore I'm assuming (I know lol ) that we'll all be getting vaccinated at least once a year . . .

Re: Coronavirus
 

So it looks like I wasn't the only person here to fail my degree in mind reading. You on the other hand have shown you passed your goal post moving course with honours ;);)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

From the study you linked to.

Meanwhile.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...source=twitter

Re: Coronavirus
 

Reads like they didn't like the evidence so conjured up some phoney excuse to discount it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sounds like Scottish politics.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ooh you are awful... but I like you :D

Dick Emery™

Re: Coronavirus
 

I've just watched some of the Holland V Latvia game, there's approx 5,000 fans in attendance, I didn't see one person in the crowd with a mask on, are their Covid infections so low that they can allow this?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Like for like probably not - averaging about 7k cases a day, population 17 million.

That said Amsterdam is a host city for Euro 2020, and there's pressure from UEFA for venues to confirm if fans can attend so I assume they are keen to do test events.

Be interesting to know what, if any, mitigations were in place. Testing (lateral flow or PCR), temperature checks, etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pies at half time...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hmmm, test events to see if cases/deaths increase from them. I suppose it is one way to go.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wait till I tell you what the UK Government has planned...

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not more Ant & bloody Dec is it :shocked:

Re: Coronavirus
 

No, the Kankies are coming back to TV.:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm hopeful that the vaccines will help, if not what's the point, they say that almost all of the vulnerable have been vaccinated, along with the over 50s now getting theirs, can't see why we are all still basically locked up, we are just going to have to live with it imo, just like we do with the flu.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The daily covid briefing;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Quite unbelieveable.
I suppose it helps in the UK, that we have centralised NHS records. The asking of questions, eg allergies or adverse reactions to previous vaccinations, are asked at the vaccination centre.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BORIS JOHNSON has confirmed 60 million doses of the Novavax coronavirus vaccine will be manufactured in the UK - just days after the drugs company delayed signing a contract with the EU.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...y-covid-jab-eu


The Prime Minister confirmed an agreement with British drugmaker GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) would see doses of the coronavirus vaccine manufactured in the north east of England at the company's Barnard Castle site.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

On the bad customer list then:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

The UK's Vaccine Taskforce has been actively involved in all of this. HMG's explicit policy is to keep as much vaccine production onshore as possible, and who can blame them. Likewise I bet Novavax aren't the only ones scrutinising any potential supply deal with the EU very carefully before proceeding.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Reuters reported it differently

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2BH2GY Also

https://www.pharmaceutical-technolog...vavax-vaccine/ ...

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's the polite way of saying sod off

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not sure that's all that different. First of all the source for Novavax's reasoning is an EU official, so at best that official can only be recounting what Novavax wants them to know. Letting the other side know things unofficially is a perfectly valid negotiating tactic, and besides, they're hardly going to tell them 'between you and me, we don't trust you not to go Tonto on us if you later find us supplying other customers who bought their product before you did.'

GSK is bottling 60 million doses of the Novavax product, and according to an ITV report in January, the UK government has already bought the lot.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-29/...the-uk-ordered

Can you imagine what would happen if Novavax signed a 'best effort' deal with the EU tomorrow, then found it was having issues setting up production within the EU and had to tell them it would take longer than hoped to fulfil the order? Based on the very public spectacle of the EU scapegoating AstraZeneca for its own failings, Novavax would be in for the same carpeting, and the UK government would start copping flak as well. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if the UK government has - informally - reminded Novavax executives of the EU's behaviour, and encouraged them to ensure there's clear blue water between any deals they've already signed, and anything the EU is asking for, before signing on the dotted line.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just had a check and it's now public that there are huge raw material supply issues with the Novavax product. This will be global apart from US manufactured vaccine (Defence Production Act fun again) and so will affect Fuji in the UK, the Czech Republic factory and the Serum Institute.

Novavax have seen what happened with AZ and are carefully not making promises it can't keep.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or, is not making suitably caveated promises that can later be wilfully misconstrued by a bad actor. YMMV. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

The most important news of the day I've booked my hair cut appointment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No need for me, Mrs K has upskilled herself into a new permanent job ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I thought you were bald?:confused:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1617042230

Re: Coronavirus
 

I didn’t sign anything, but my sister said some of her friends had to sign a consent form? Anyone else have any anecdotal info?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’ll quote one part of significance then:

Which probably best explains his absurd conclusion:

Throughout, his blog is confused about the sources of the vaccines (is it private companies, or nation states, or the EU? This changes almost from paragraph to paragraph, depending on which best fits his argument), fills important gaps with speculation, and then draws conclusions based on that speculation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was just verbally asked for my consent, after they had reeled off the possible side-effects.
They're not going to drag you off and inject you anyway, if you don't consent. It's not like a hospital operation, where you might be unable to leave or you have to agree to the specifics of what is planned.

Re: Coronavirus