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-   -   UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33708171)

1andrew1 21-10-2020 11:35
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36054557)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v2l4vw9nzI

Looks like reality has kicked in.
Cummings hasn't aged well in that clip :D

papa smurf 21-10-2020 11:49
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054558)
Cummings hasn't aged well in that clip :D
But he's running the universe;)

1andrew1 21-10-2020 19:39
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36054560)
But he's running the universe;)
I would spell running with an equal number of Is and Ns. ;)

Good news, talks are back on!
https://www.cityam.com/brexit-uk-eu-...k-of-sparring/

papa smurf 21-10-2020 20:00
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054606)
I would spell running with an equal number of Is and Ns. ;)

Good news, talks are back on!
https://www.cityam.com/brexit-uk-eu-...k-of-sparring/
Until they start taking the piss again.

nomadking 21-10-2020 20:09
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36054607)
Until they start taking the piss again.
Again? Don't you mean "still", as they've never stopped?

The word "Compromise" to them means "give in to our demands".

papa smurf 21-10-2020 20:15
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36054608)
Again? Don't you mean "still", as they've never stopped?

The word "Compromise" to them means "give in to our demands".
Well if, sorry when they turn up with the same attitude just slam the door in their face and it's hey ho wto.

nomadking 21-10-2020 20:48
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36054609)
Well if, sorry when they turn up with the same attitude just slam the door in their face and it's hey ho wto.
If they were going to turn up with the same attitude, they simply could have said so, on fishing and their notion of "level playing field".
On fishing they could've simply said "yes, you control UK waters, but can we come to an understanding on quotas". They haven't, so nothing doing as far as "negotiations" are concerned. Fishing shouldn't be a pre-condition for everything else. Just crazy on the EU's part.

jfman 21-10-2020 21:16
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Need to wait and see if Sleepy Joe or Covidiot Don wins. No friends in the world if it’s the former.

Sephiroth 21-10-2020 22:02
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054614)
Need to wait and see if Sleepy Joe or Covidiot Don wins. No friends in the world if it’s the former.
I'm not so sure you're right there. In fact I'm certain you're wrong given this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_t...United_Kingdom

You are capable of better arguments than you've just made.

Hugh 21-10-2020 22:04
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054618)
I'm not so sure you're right there. In fact I'm certain you're wrong given this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_t...United_Kingdom

You are capable of better arguments than you've just made.
First line on that link...

Quote:
This article possibly contains unsourced predictions, speculative material, or accounts of events that might not occur. Information must be verifiable and based on reliable published sources.

Please help improve it by removing unsourced speculative content.
(October 2020)
And you may have missed this from before.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/17/brex...t-for-gfa.html
Quote:
"We can’t allow the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland to become a casualty of Brexit,” Biden said on Twitter late Wednesday.

The U.K. agreed with the European Union at the end of 2019, as part of its departure from the bloc, that state aid granted to Northern Ireland which would impact trade with the EU would need approval from Brussels. This commitment, which was translated into law in January, aimed to prevent a harder border between Northern Ireland (a member of the U.K.) and the Republic of Ireland (a member of the EU) and respected the Good Friday Agreement — a U.S. brokered deal that brought peace between both parts of the island in the late 1990s.

The bill — called the Internal Market Bill — would also potentially change requirements that Northern Irish firms complete export summary declarations when shipping goods to the mainland.

“Any trade deal between the U.S. and U.K. must be contingent upon respect for the Agreement and preventing the return of a hard border. Period,” the presidential hopeful also said via Twitter, suggesting a trade deal with the United States could be at risk if Biden enters the White House.

1andrew1 21-10-2020 22:18
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054614)
Need to wait and see if Sleepy Joe or Covidiot Don wins. No friends in the world if it’s the former.
I've little doubt that Joe Biden will be in power come November and he will be keen to sign a trade deal with one his country's key trading partners. The EU.

Sadly, back of the queue for a deal will be Britain given BoJo's affiliations to Trump via the Vote Leave campaign and the threat to the Good Friday Agreement with the Internal Marker Bill. If we're looking for a positive here, it makes the arrival of chlorinated chicken on these shores less imminent.

https://qz.com/1467877/read-the-emai...non-to-brexit/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...el-Farage.html

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054618)
I'm not so sure you're right there. In fact I'm certain you're wrong given this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_t...United_Kingdom

You are capable of better arguments than you've just made.
Putting aside the possible data concerns highlighted by Hugh, if correct this does largely support jfman's arguments. Of our largest export markets, the only country we have a deal with is Switzerland and BoJo has scuppered the chance of a deal anytime soon with the US by his closeness to Trump.
Therefore, striking a deal with the EU becomes ever more important with the US out of reach. Expect more rolling-over on BoJo's part!

Sephiroth 21-10-2020 22:25
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054620)
<SNIP>

Putting aside the possible data concerns highlighted by Hugh, if correct this does largely support jfman's arguments. Of our largest export markets, the only country we have a deal with is Switzerland and BoJo has scuppered the chance of a deal anytime soon with the US by his closeness to Trump.
Therefore, striking a deal with the EU becomes ever more important with the US out of reach. Expect more rolling-over on BoJo's part.
I think you should ignore Hugh. He's very selective about his point and does not pay attention to the long list of countries with whom we are making progress.

A bit out of date, but as Hugh doesn't like Wikipedia when I quote it:

https://ahdb.org.uk/An-update-on-pos...it-trade-deals

Other than that, yes, striking a deal with the EU is important.

jfman 21-10-2020 22:48
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054618)
I'm not so sure you're right there. In fact I'm certain you're wrong given this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_t...United_Kingdom

You are capable of better arguments than you've just made.
I’m somewhat exaggerating, but the prospect of no imminent deals with the USA, China or the EU who account for 56% of world GDP would leave us scraping together deals and certainly in a weakened negotiating position. With Japan, India plus a plethora of countries who account for 2% and aren’t on our doorstep.

I genuinely think the whole strategy is on pause to see what happens in the USA.

Hugh 21-10-2020 23:03
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054622)
I think you should ignore Hugh. He's very selective about his point and does not pay attention to the long list of countries with whom we are making progress.

A bit out of date, but as Hugh doesn't like Wikipedia when I quote it:

https://ahdb.org.uk/An-update-on-pos...it-trade-deals

Other than that, yes, striking a deal with the EU is important.
I don’t have a problem with Wiki, I just pointed out that Wiki stated the article you linked to possibly contains unsourced predictions, speculative material, or accounts of events that might not occur (their words, not mine).

Speaking of "selective", we were discussing trade deals with the USA, and the impact on these if Biden gets elected, and you post a link that doesn’t mention the USA at all...

Sephiroth 21-10-2020 23:16
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054625)
I’m somewhat exaggerating, but the prospect of no imminent deals with the USA, China or the EU who account for 56% of world GDP would leave us scraping together deals and certainly in a weakened negotiating position. With Japan, India plus a plethora of countries who account for 2% and aren’t on our doorstep.

I genuinely think the whole strategy is on pause to see what happens in the USA.
Well, that's alright then.

Maybe I'm wrong, but a trade deal with the US, which we don't have now, isn't terribly important other than as an in your face to the EU.

A trade deal with China, well they don't care about Northern Ireland. Anything could happen there. Better though that we start manufacturing our own white goods or whatever.



---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36054627)
I don’t have a problem with Wiki, I just pointed out that Wiki stated the article you linked to possibly contains unsourced predictions, speculative material, or accounts of events that might not occur (their words, not mine).

Speaking of "selective", we were discussing trade deals with the USA, and the impact on these if Biden gets elected, and you post a link that doesn’t mention the USA at all...
I was responding to jfman and nobody else - specifically his point that if Biden wins, we'll have no friends left in the world.

jfman subsequently admitted he was exaggerating but that's how poor argument gets built on.

Your first paragraph is obtuse and worthless.

jfman 21-10-2020 23:32
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
I’d say a trade deal with one of the big 3 is essential. I do think China care about Huawei, even if Iain Duncan Smith doesn’t.

1andrew1 21-10-2020 23:58
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054633)
I’d say a trade deal with one of the big 3 is essential. I do think China care about Huawei, even if Iain Duncan Smith doesn’t.
Of the Big 3:
- China is ruled out - no negotiations scheduled
- USA is ruled out due to Internal Market Bill and Boris's links to soon-to-be-ex-President Trump

Therefore, the EU is the only show left in town. No wonder BoJo sent David Frost back to the negotiating table.

Mad Max 22-10-2020 00:01
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054635)
Of the Big 3:
- China is ruled out - no negotiations scheduled
- USA is ruled out due to Internal Market Bill and Boris's links to soon-to-be-ex-President Trump

Therefore, the EU is the only show left in town. No wonder BoJo sent David Frost back to the negotiating table.
You know this, how?

Hugh 22-10-2020 00:17
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054629)
Well, that's alright then.

Maybe I'm wrong, but a trade deal with the US, which we don't have now, isn't terribly important other than as an in your face to the EU.

A trade deal with China, well they don't care about Northern Ireland. Anything could happen there. Better though that we start manufacturing our own white goods or whatever.



---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:12 ----------



I was responding to jfman and nobody else - specifically his point that if Biden wins, we'll have no friends left in the world.

jfman subsequently admitted he was exaggerating but that's how poor argument gets built on.

Your first paragraph is obtuse and worthless.
You think that the fact Wiki think their article may lack credence is "obtuse and worthless"?

Fair enough - their problem, not mine...

1andrew1 22-10-2020 00:40
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36054636)
You know this, how?
Which aspects are you querying? Everything has been covered in recent links in this thread except for perhaps the US election where Biden's lead over Trump is increasing.

jfman 22-10-2020 07:33
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054638)
Which aspects are you querying? Everything has been covered in recent links in this thread except for perhaps the US election where Biden's lead over Trump is increasing.
Indeed, these things are well documented. Maybe Trump could get 11 doctors to give various experimental treatments to his election campaign to bring it back to life. :)

Sephiroth 22-10-2020 08:26
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054635)
Of the Big 3:
- China is ruled out - no negotiations scheduled
- USA is ruled out due to Internal Market Bill and Boris's links to soon-to-be-ex-President Trump

Therefore, the EU is the only show left in town. No wonder BoJo sent David Frost back to the negotiating table.
Or did the EU blink? The snide spin you've put onto your remark is gratuitous.

jfman 22-10-2020 08:32
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054645)
Or did the EU blink? The snide spin you've put onto your remark is gratuitous.
Did they?

Sephiroth 22-10-2020 09:51
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054646)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Or did the EU blink? The snide spin you've put onto your remark is gratuitous.
Did they?
What do you think? I think that they have appeared to blink with their fingers crossed behind their back.

1andrew1 22-10-2020 10:04
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054645)
Or did the EU blink? The snide spin you've put onto your remark is gratuitous.
There's no spin. The comments Barnier made recently which got Frost back to the table were pretty much a repeat of those he made previously.*

The previous cessation of negotiations were more about an unpopular BoJo trying to raise his popularity in the party than any hard-edged negotiating strategy. Judging by your post, his tactics may have worked.

* See below:
Quote:
Mr Johnson had criticised a statement adopted by EU leaders at a summit last week that called on the UK “to make the necessary moves to make an agreement possible”, saying there was no point continuing talks if all concessions needed to come from the British side.

EU diplomats noted Mr Barnier’s comments on Wednesday were a close reflection of those he made in last week’s EU summit press conference, as well as of remarks made at that time by other EU leaders such as Germany’s Angela Merkel.

But they proved enough to end the impasse, which persisted over the early part of this week despite daily calls between Lord Frost and Mr Barnier.
https://www.ft.com/content/27d46f3b-...6-b007c08a441d

Chris 22-10-2020 10:06
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Great, so everyone thinks things are unfolding according to their preferred narrative.

1andrew1 22-10-2020 10:09
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36054650)
Great, so everyone thinks things are unfolding according to their preferred narrative.
That's normally the way, it's just usually slightly less nuanced on this topic. ;)

Chris 22-10-2020 10:27
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054651)
That's normally the way, it's just usually slightly less nuanced on this topic. ;)
At least everyone’s happy. It’s peace in our time, or the closest we’re going to get to it in this thread.

1andrew1 22-10-2020 11:58
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36054652)
At least everyone’s happy. It’s peace in our time, or the closest we’re going to get to it in this thread.
Peace in our time on CF until Indy Ref II. ;)

Hugh 22-10-2020 14:09
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36054652)
At least everyone’s happy. It’s peace in our time, or the closest we’re going to get to it in this thread.
Except Neville had a piece of paper in his hand, not a (u)kipper... :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1603372073 https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1603372073

Sephiroth 22-10-2020 14:11
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054656)
Peace in our time on CF until Indy Ref II. ;)
"Never, never, never!".

I want to be pleasantly surprised by the EU, but I rather think their concessionary signals are feint. Likewise, the Guvmin's re-entry to the talks is most likely a spoil to prevent outcry that the UK failed to grasp an olive branch.

It still seems to me that these will be back-to-back discussions rather than face-to-face.

Chris 22-10-2020 15:01
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36054661)
Except Neville had a piece of paper in his hand, not a (u)kipper... :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1603372073 https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1603372073
I live to feed you lines. :D

1andrew1 22-10-2020 16:13
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054662)
"Never, never, never!".

I want to be pleasantly surprised by the EU, but I rather think their concessionary signals are feint. Likewise, the Guvmin's re-entry to the talks is most likely a spoil to prevent outcry that the UK failed to grasp an olive branch.

It still seems to me that these will be back-to-back discussions rather than face-to-face.
No deal is not really an option; the UK Government is not prepared for it. Hence some kind of agreement will have to be reached even if it's just kicking some things like fishing down the alley.

Sephiroth 22-10-2020 16:24
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054667)
No deal is not really an option; the UK Government is not prepared for it. Hence some kind of agreement will have to be reached even if it's just kicking some things like fishing down the alley.
It would be very interesting if this turned out to be the case.
It would mean that the UK never meant what it said and some weasel wording would have to be found (and they're all expert at it) to cover the concessions made.

If I were to rank the importance of standing firm, fishing could be sacrificed (to a reasonable degree) if the level playing field did not fetter our growth and did not fall under any form of ECJ restriction.

Hugh 22-10-2020 17:20
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36054663)
I live to feed you lines. :D
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/71...9a22030aef.gif

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054668)
It would be very interesting if this turned out to be the case.
It would mean that the UK never meant what it said and some weasel wording would have to be found (and they're all expert at it) to cover the concessions made.

If I were to rank the importance of standing firm, fishing could be sacrificed (to a reasonable degree) if the level playing field did not fetter our growth and did not fall under any form of ECJ restriction.
Could be progress on the LPF.

From today’s FT

https://www.ft.com/content/27d46f3b-...6-b007c08a441d

Quote:
Mr Barnier on Wednesday pointed to recent progress in talks on “level-playing field” guarantees for companies — including in the area of state aid — as a sign that difficult disagreements could be overcome.

jfman 22-10-2020 19:25
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054668)
It would be very interesting if this turned out to be the case.
It would mean that the UK never meant what it said and some weasel wording would have to be found (and they're all expert at it) to cover the concessions made.

If I were to rank the importance of standing firm, fishing could be sacrificed (to a reasonable degree) if the level playing field did not fetter our growth and did not fall under any form of ECJ restriction.
Do you need more water to dilute your stance, my good friend?

Hugh 22-10-2020 19:41
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054683)
Do you need more water to dilute your stance, my good friend?
No need to be a Richard, jf - if people are willing to be pragmatic, it is to be lauded, not mocked.

jfman 22-10-2020 19:46
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36054684)
No need to be a Richard, jf - if people are willing to be pragmatic, it is to be lauded, not mocked.
I playfully mocked my good friend Seph who mocked me yesterday with my exaggerated 'not a friend in the world' post yesterday.

I'm sure he will take it in good spirits.

Sephiroth 22-10-2020 20:14
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054683)
Do you need more water to dilute your stance, my good friend?
My stance remains the same. The EU are tricksters at worst and bullies at best or either way round. My government isn't exactly handling this right (e.g. the Internal Market Bill timing).

So, we need to salvage something that at least preserves our sovereignty - a fishing deal with a sunset period would be helpful or even a partial share thereafter.

But freedom from the ECJ and freedom to act in our own best interests remains solid in my requirements.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:13 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054685)
I playfully mocked my good friend Seph who mocked me yesterday with my exaggerated 'not a friend in the world' post yesterday.

I'm sure he will take it in good spirits.
... especially if Hugh likes me now!

jfman 22-10-2020 23:38
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
As I say Seph, it was friendly jostling more than emphatic debating. We are all on pause to the US election result.

Sephiroth 22-10-2020 23:52
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054688)
As I say Seph, it was friendly jostling more than emphatic debating. We are all on pause to the US election result.
Sure - I like to get one in like anyone else!

But I don't buy being on pause until the US election result. You could get walked over because you're on pause. There's 31-Oct yet to come for the Brexit thing.

1andrew1 23-10-2020 12:06
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054689)
Sure - I like to get one in like anyone else!

But I don't buy being on pause until the US election result. You could get walked over because you're on pause. There's 31-Oct yet to come for the Brexit thing.
I'm with you on this one, Seph. Even if Trump won the election, there's no plans for a UK-US trade deal this year.

Mr K 23-10-2020 12:13
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054708)
I'm with you on this one, Seph. Even if Trump won the election, there's no plans for a UK-US trade deal this year.
I've got a good idea. We could join up with nearby European countries forming some sort of economic alliance. Call it the 'European Alliance' if you like. It would then be the biggest economic block in the World and we'd have much more leverage in Trade deals. We'd all live happily ever after instead of becoming a dwindling irrelevant economic backwater, seeking aid/pity from others..... Good idea eh? :)

Sephiroth 23-10-2020 12:17
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054708)
I'm with you on this one, Seph. Even if Trump won the election, there's no plans for a UK-US trade deal this year.
... and is a US-uK trade deal that important, Andrew?

Isn't the CPTPP more important or at least just as beneficial?

https://policyexchange.org.uk/what-t...eal-signifies/

Quote:
The Department for International Trade (DIT) has announced that the UK has concluded a historic new free trade agreement with Japan, the UK’s first major trade deal post-Brexit. The agreement is an important step towards the UK’s ambition to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP).
The CPTPP comprises: Canada, Mexico, Peru, Chile, New Zealand, Australia, Brunei, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam and Japan

Btw, I can see some light coming out of Brexit talks leaks. Something about the governance mechanism allowing the EU to restrict access to the single market if the UK diverges too far on competition behaviour. A fudge, but to my pragmatic mind, a welcome fudge.

1andrew1 23-10-2020 12:27
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054711)
... and is a US-uK trade deal that important, Andrew?

Isn't the CPTPP more important or at least just as beneficial?

https://policyexchange.org.uk/what-t...eal-signifies/



The CPTPP comprises: Canada, Mexico, Peru, Chile, New Zealand, Australia, Brunei, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam and Japan

Btw, I can see some light coming out of Brexit talks leaks. Something about the governance mechanism allowing the EU to restrict access to the single market if the UK diverges too far on competition behaviour. A fudge, but to my pragmatic mind, a welcome fudge.
I think the importance of the US is that it's our biggest single trading partner although if you add up the EU member states they dwarf it and that deal is the most important. But any deal with the EU won't be as good as our current trading arrangements with them so we must steel ourselves for a permanent negative economic impact from 2021.

papa smurf 23-10-2020 12:31
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36054710)
I've got a good idea. We could join up with nearby European countries forming some sort of economic alliance. Call it the 'European Alliance' if you like. It would then be the biggest economic block in the World and we'd have much more leverage in Trade deals. We'd all live happily ever after instead of becoming a dwindling irrelevant economic backwater, seeking aid/pity from others..... Good idea eh? :)
Yea we could call it the we have nothing in common market.

Pierre 23-10-2020 13:08
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36054710)
I've got a good idea. We could join up with nearby European countries forming some sort of economic alliance. Call it the 'European Alliance' if you like. It would then be the biggest economic block in the World and we'd have much more leverage in Trade deals. We'd all live happily ever after instead of becoming a dwindling irrelevant economic backwater, seeking aid/pity from others.
gets my support 100% isn't that what we thought we were joining?

Oh you missed out the turning into a federal super state bit.........

Sephiroth 23-10-2020 16:19
The EU Sausage
 

As our participation within EU rules comes to a conclusion, the EU has done a classic "Yes Minister".

https://www.dw.com/en/european-parli...ges/a-55373087

Quote:
The European Parliament on Friday voted to allow producers of meatless foodstuffs to continue calling them "sausages" and "burgers" if they desire, rejecting a proposal to have such trade practices banned.

Can't wait to see if this is picked up in tomorrow's tabloids!

Chris 23-10-2020 16:28
Re: The EU Sausage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054741)

As our participation within EU rules comes to a conclusion, the EU has done a classic "Yes Minister".

https://www.dw.com/en/european-parli...ges/a-55373087




Can't wait to see if this is picked up in tomorrow's tabloids!
No joy for producers of dairy substitutes though. I suspect the French cheese lobby was rather more effective than the meat producers were. If the proposal was to avoid confusion, then the outcome of the vote has only served to make it worse.

I'm no vegan by any means but I dislike having my intelligence insulted - I'm quite capable of understanding that 'milky taste' and 'milk substitute' don't mean 'milk'.

Not for the first time I am relieved and delighted that we're getting out of this nonsensical organisation.

Pierre 23-10-2020 17:13
Re: The EU Sausage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36054743)
No joy for producers of dairy substitutes though. I suspect the French cheese lobby was rather more effective than the meat producers were. If the proposal was to avoid confusion, then the outcome of the vote has only served to make it worse.

I'm no vegan by any means but I dislike having my intelligence insulted - I'm quite capable of understanding that 'milky taste' and 'milk substitute' don't mean 'milk'.

Not for the first time I am relieved and delighted that we're getting out of this nonsensical organisation.
I thought Soya was a type of Cow, like Jersey, how foolish do I feel now!

jfman 23-10-2020 21:20
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054708)
I'm with you on this one, Seph. Even if Trump won the election, there's no plans for a UK-US trade deal this year.
There isn’t, but it’s more viable and there are EU positions that are red flags for a deal with the Trump administration.

The EU similarly, if they think Biden will win, know that they will extract more from the UK position in November because they’re the only show in town for the foreseeable.

OLD BOY 24-10-2020 20:04
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36054710)
I've got a good idea. We could join up with nearby European countries forming some sort of economic alliance. Call it the 'European Alliance' if you like. It would then be the biggest economic block in the World and we'd have much more leverage in Trade deals. We'd all live happily ever after instead of becoming a dwindling irrelevant economic backwater, seeking aid/pity from others..... Good idea eh? :)
Wake up, Mr K, you are having another nightmare, and it hasn’t played out yet.

---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36054719)
gets my support 100% isn't that what we thought we were joining?

Oh you missed out the turning into a federal super state bit.........
Not to mention minor issues like a European Army.

Even more worrying, of course, is the EU’s anti-business stance. In fact the more I think about the EU, the more reasons I come up with why we really don’t want to be part of it.

1andrew1 25-10-2020 00:19
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Seems to back up what jfman was saying.
Quote:
Johnson will wait for US election result before no-deal Brexit decision
Ivan Rogers, who was the UK’s permanent representative in Brussels from 2013 to 2017, told the Observer that a view shared by ministers and officials he has talked to in recent weeks in several European capitals, is that Johnson is biding his time – and is much more likely to opt for no deal if his friend and Brexit supporter Donald Trump prevails over the Democratic challenger, Joe Biden.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rexit-decision

Chris 25-10-2020 13:10
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
The headline isn’t supported by the content of the article. The article first of all is hearsay; it’s not quoting EU government figures, it’s quoting someone who used to have a professional relationship with some EU government figures, relating what they have said informally to him. Second of all it’s an opinion piece, which isn’t a problem in itself except the headline creates the impression of being a news item reporting facts.

It tells us that *some* people in government in European countries *think* BoJo’s approach to No Deal *might* be influenced by the US election - not what he “will” do.

jfman 25-10-2020 13:26
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
In fairness I'm just offering an opinion and even if the UK were taking this stance they'd never admit it openly.

Proof will be in the pudding once we have President-elect Boden and a Democratic Senate. :)

1andrew1 25-10-2020 13:32
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
I'd been sceptical of this theory but the current FT lead headline reads "Concerns grow inside Downing Street as polls point to Biden victory".

jfman 25-10-2020 13:39
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054855)
I'd been sceptical of this theory but the current FT lead headline reads "Concerns grow inside Downing Street as polls point to Biden victory".
I think it's quite obvious really. Trump and the whole Make America Great Again mantra drives trade war after trade war. Brexit is an easy way to destabilise the EU, with the added bonus of scraping up some wins for US businesses in the UK.

A Biden administration would see a strong EU as an important counterweight to Russian influence in Eastern Europe and be less interested in a trade war with the EU.

denphone 25-10-2020 13:48
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054855)
I'd been sceptical of this theory but the current FT lead headline reads "Concerns grow inside Downing Street as polls point to Biden victory".
It looks like its going to be the highest US voter turnout for over 100 years and the early signs given over 50 million have already voted don't bode well for Donald Trump.

1andrew1 25-10-2020 13:58
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054858)
I think it's quite obvious really. Trump and the whole Make America Great Again mantra drives trade war after trade war. Brexit is an easy way to destabilise the EU, with the added bonus of scraping up some wins for US businesses in the UK.

A Biden administration would see a strong EU as an important counterweight to Russian influence in Eastern Europe and be less interested in a trade war with the EU.
Yes, I get Trump's and Biden's objectives but I just don't see any chance of a swift trade deal between the UK and the US even if Trump wins and has BoJo on speed-dial.

jfman 25-10-2020 15:24
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36054861)
Yes, I get Trump's and Biden's objectives but I just don't see any chance of a swift trade deal between the UK and the US even if Trump wins and has BoJo on speed-dial.
In some respects for the Trump’s US it doesn’t matter if there is one - their overarching aims are met as long as Boris believes it’s on the horizon and the USA can spin out negotiations as long as it pleases knowing there is no UK/EU deal.

The USA will be able to pick off some trade under WTO rules.

Sephiroth 25-10-2020 15:44
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
We already trade with the US on WTO terms. I can't see the big deal here for us plus, as others have said, getting one is not likely to be quicke unless we cave.

Remember also that Boris has a cabinet, MPs and a party to convince, never mind the country.

I've no idea whether or not Boris is being wisely advised, but the country will be very angry if the EU talks fail because of Boris wants to know the US election result first. I'd forecast that his position would become rapidly untenable.

I believe we are at the point now where only demonstrable EU intransigence can lead to an "acceptable" failure of talks.

jfman 25-10-2020 15:49
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054873)
We already trade with the US on WTO terms. I can't see the big deal here for us plus, as others have said, getting one is not likely to be quicke unless we cave.

Remember also that Boris has a cabinet, MPs and a party to convince, never mind the country.

I've no idea whether or not Boris is being wisely advised, but the country will be very angry if the EU talks fail because of Boris wants to know the US election result first. I'd forecast that his position would become rapidly untenable.

I believe we are at the point now where only demonstrable EU intransigence can lead to an "acceptable" failure of talks.
Nobody ever needs to know why EU trade talks weren't concluded before the US election though - one way or the other. EU talks always go to the 11th hour and there's the minor issue of the deteriorating global pandemic.

There's easily enough cover for a wait and see approach, and Boris can 100% deny it ever to be the case.

Sephiroth 25-10-2020 15:53
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054874)
Nobody ever needs to know why EU trade talks weren't concluded before the US election though - one way or the other. EU talks always go to the 11th hour and there's the minor issue of the deteriorating global pandemic.

There's easily enough cover for a wait and see approach, and Boris can 100% deny it ever to be the case.
... but Boris needs the sceptical public to be onside and he's not really well respected, I sense.

Pierre 25-10-2020 16:54
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36054859)
It looks like its going to be the highest US voter turnout for over 100 years and the early signs given over 50 million have already voted don't bode well for Donald Trump.
Unless they’re voting for him?

Hugh 25-10-2020 17:43
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36054879)
Unless they’re voting for him?
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...-states-431363
Quote:
Democrats have opened up a yawning gap in early voting over Republicans in six of the most crucial battleground states — but that only begins to tell the story of their advantage heading into Election Day.

In a more worrisome sign for Republicans, Democrats are also turning out more low-frequency and newly registered voters than the GOP, according to internal data shared with POLITICO by Hawkfish, a new Democratic research firm, which was reviewed by Republicans and independent experts.

The turnout data does not mean Donald Trump will lose to Joe Biden. Both sides are bracing for a close race and a giant wave of Republicans to vote in person on Nov. 3. Yet the turnout disparity with new and less-reliable voters has forced Republican political operatives to take notice.

jfman 25-10-2020 18:09
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Makes the count interesting for the states that will count on the day ballots first.

Pierre 25-10-2020 18:10
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36054882)
Polls mean nothing.

That has been proven several times over the last 5 years.

Could still go either way.

jfman 25-10-2020 18:18
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36054886)
Polls mean nothing.

That has been proven several times over the last 5 years.

Could still go either way.
Popular myth.

https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

Plenty of polls on Brexit had leave winning, and almost all within the statistical margin of error from April onwards.

Exit polling can also be very good - so much people will bet hundreds of millions on it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...beat-the-crash

Pierre 25-10-2020 18:36
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Not really a “Myth“

From the link you provided. 173 polls for remain and 113 for leave.

Still over, the poll of polls, Of near 300 polls, Remain was still near 40% ahead.

So, I think, it is still safe to say, they cannot be trusted........unless you think 40% is a close call?

jfman 25-10-2020 18:43
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
You might have a point if opinion was fixed. However it isn't - that's the point of political campaigning.

There's no real reason to suspect that - of the near 300 polls - those further back weren't genuine representations (subject to margin of error) of public opinion at that point in time.

I'm not sure how you arrive at the 40% figure or what relevance it has. No polls show it 70-30 that I can see on the chart. However you are aggregating the figures without weighting them merely increases the margin of error.

The polling around Brexit is clearly a success as it goes down the final stretch - both outcomes winning and losing within the margin of error. A perfect representation of a 52-48 result.

Hugh 25-10-2020 18:48
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36054886)
Polls mean nothing.

That has been proven several times over the last 5 years.

Could still go either way.
They weren’t polls, they were early votes cast.

Quote:
But Democrats have dominated voting by mail and on Thursday held a historic lead in total pre-Election Day ballots cast of 463,000, or 10 percentage points, according to the state’s Division of Elections
https://electproject.github.io/Early...20G/index.html https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1603651980

Hugh 25-10-2020 18:56
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Anyhoo, this stuff belongs in the US Election thread - back on topic, please.

jfman 25-10-2020 19:00
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
You started it! ;)

Pierre 25-10-2020 19:09
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054893)
You started it! ;)
Only the US stuff, you can still reply as to why you think a 40% lead in polls saying Remain would win, somehow negates the argument that polls are unreliable?

jfman 25-10-2020 19:23
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36054895)
Only the US stuff, you can still reply as to why you think a 40% lead in polls saying Remain would win, somehow negates the argument that polls are unreliable?
Post 4370 addressed this.

1andrew1 25-10-2020 20:23
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36054873)
We already trade with the US on WTO terms. I can't see the big deal here for us plus, as others have said, getting one is not likely to be quicke unless we cave.

Remember also that Boris has a cabinet, MPs and a party to convince, never mind the country.

I've no idea whether or not Boris is being wisely advised, but the country will be very angry if the EU talks fail because of Boris wants to know the US election result first. I'd forecast that his position would become rapidly untenable.

I believe we are at the point now where only demonstrable EU intransigence can lead to an "acceptable" failure of talks.
There are several bolt-on deals to WTO terms that the UK currently enjoys with the USA courtesy of its former EU membership and latterly the Withdrawal Agreement. We will lose these next year as matters currently stand.
The main trade barriers with the US tend to be non-tariff eg not being allowed to own majority stakes in US airlines, port facilities etc.
BoJo needs a deal with the EU and I'll sure he'll get one of sorts.

Mr K 25-10-2020 21:16
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Interesting comment piece in the Torygraph today. The paper is going cool on Brexit. Reality strikes. (Why can i still read it all for free ? :) Very entertaining mind ... ;) )
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...itains-future/
Quote:
Business people tend to be natural optimists and pragmatists. Where there is a problem, the job is to fix it, move on and seize the opportunities that lie ahead. Yet even the most positively minded of bosses are struggling to maintain that mindset against the backdrop of today’s multi-faceted array of challenges.

Rarely if ever have I seen them quite as gloomy and downbeat.

At the very moment that as a nation we have chosen to cast aside the moorings of the European Union and head for the high seas of the world beyond, we face a perfect storm of negatives, with virtually everything that could go wrong having already done so or threatening to at any moment.

Business representatives on a conference call with Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, and Michael Gove, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, last week were invited to get ready for the opportunities of Brexit, which Mr Gove compared to the process of moving house to one with a different view.

It’s all very well, one attendee told me, if you are trading up from the old vicarage to the manor house, but when its a grotty little bungalow built some distance off on a floodplain, moving house doesn’t look quite so appealing.

Neither Government representative could say what those opportunities are supposed to be, for other than making trade with our nearest neighbours more difficult, Brexit has for the moment changed very little else.

Rather than become more business friendly, the economic and commercial environment is to the contrary getting ever more hostile - debt is now higher than GDP, for instance.

This trend was of course observable even before Covid came along. With its new “Red Wall” constituencies to answer to, the Government seemed already to be shifting decidedly Leftwards. That shift has been turbo-charged by the pandemic, putting a rocket under the idea that the state will always provide.

One of the most powerful arguments for Brexit was that the UK economy, after years of lacklustre performance and stagnant living standards, needs the shock therapy of departure from the EU to restructure and rebalance for the 21st century.

There has been very little appreciation in Europe of the sort of economic dynamism we are seeing in other parts of the world; to properly plug into it, and rejuvenate the economy accordingly, we needed to cast off.

It’s no-one’s fault in particular, but unfortunately we could scarcely have chosen a worse moment for doing so. At a time when as a nation we need to be reducing the tax and regulatory burden, and finally ridding ourselves of the debilitating dependency culture of recent decades, Covid has conspired to put us on an entirely different path, with much of the economy now seemingly dependent on state handouts.

It’s all just temporary, insists Rishi Sunak, the Chancellor, but with the best will in the world, it’s going to be hard to reverse, even if, by some miracle, vaccines and treatments largely bring the infection to heel by the middle of next year.

£62bn has been paid out through the Government’s main coronavirus lending programmes

Once an economy has got used to income support, it becomes virtually impossible to take it away again without making matters worse still.

British exceptionalism, you would think, might allow us to adopt a rather different approach to the disease than that of our European neighbours, but there seems little chance of that. The UK Government is already too heavily invested in lockdown strategies to easily change course, and after last week’s shenanigans, has only doubled down afresh.

The collective psychology of the nation is, I fear, going in exactly the wrong direction to meet challenges as big as those of Brexit, or to exploit its supposed “opportunities”. The great irony is that despite our imminent divorce, we look more like France every day. Singapore on Thames, Tyne, Mersey or wherever, is most assuredly not the direction of travel.

Meanwhile, virtually all the alternative markets that we once had high hopes for are becoming more difficult and less appetising.

Our biggest and nearest opportunity, the Gulf, is struggling under the impact of low oil prices and a seminal shift away from hydrocarbons.

Covid no doubt had something to do with it, but as if to prove the point that the region is no longer as interested as it was in closer ties, Mohammed bin Salman, the Saudi crown prince, has casually cancelled without explanation scheduled meetings with both the UK Foreign Secretary and Defence Secretary.

Elsewhere, a Biden victory in US presidential elections threatens to make a meaningful US trade deal very much more difficult than it perhaps would be under Trump, who as we know has a soft spot for Brexit Britain and seemed willing to cut some slack in reaching a satisfactory arrangement.

Putting a brave face on matters, the Department for International Trade denies this. In recent months, there has been a big push to court both the Biden camp and key Democrats in Congress.

But whereas logically there shouldn’t be any difference between Biden and Trump in so far as a UK trade deal goes, in practice, you kind of know there would be.

Biden’s appetite for one is demonstrably smaller than Trump’s. He’s also said there can be no question of a deal if the Withdrawal Agreement is breached in a manner that threatens the Good Friday Agreement.

One potential positive here not often mentioned is that Biden would be more inclined than Trump to throw his lot in with the Trans Pacific Partnership, a free trade area of Pacific nations established as a foil to growing Chinese domination of the region’s trade.

Britain too has ambitions to join the TPP. If both nations joined, it might provide a somewhat easier way of achieving freer trade with each other than a straight bilateral deal, with all its accompanying controversies over food standards and animal welfare. But all this is somewhat clutching at straws.

As for China itself, a potentially vast internal market and the only major economy in the world to have returned to decent levels of growth, could there ever have been less appropriate time to declare the place persona non grata?

China’s output recovery has continued at a strong pace

The speed with which Britain’s approach to China has changed, transitioning from a supposed “golden era” of relations to one of standoff hostility and condemnation in little more than a year, has been quite astonishing.

Whatever its rights and wrongs, the timing could scarcely have been more unfortunate.

Nobody could have foreseen today’s terrifying confluence of negatives, or indeed how spectacularly badly it would be handled.

But it is small wonder business leaders are in a state of such high alarm. On multiple fronts, we are taking huge risks with our future. In so doing, we disobey one of the first rules of battle; never fight on more than one front at a time.

I’m reminded of Edward Lear’s poem, The Jumblies. “They went to sea in a sieve they did, in a sieve they went to sea, in spite of all their friends could say, on a winter’s morn, on a stormy day, in a sieve they went to sea!”

jfman 25-10-2020 21:29
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Did he just declare herd immunity the siamese twin of a successful no-deal Brexit? :D

Quote:
British exceptionalism, you would think, might allow us to adopt a rather different approach to the disease than that of our European neighbours, but there seems little chance of that. The UK Government is already too heavily invested in lockdown strategies to easily change course, and after last week’s shenanigans, has only doubled down afresh.
See I don't think British exceptionalism would give us any chance of success. Because we are truly not exceptional.

1andrew1 25-10-2020 22:25
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36054908)
Interesting comment piece in the Torygraph today. The paper is going cool on Brexit. Reality strikes. (Why can i still read it all for free ? :) Very entertaining mind ... ;) )
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...itains-future/
Well done on posting that article, Mr K. I rather thought you'd be beaten to by one of the forum's many subscribing Daily Telegraph readers but you beat them to it! :D

Interesting to see the assessment of the TPP as "clutching at straws". Exactly the phrase that wiser forum members here would have used to describe it.

---------- Post added at 22:25 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36054910)
See I don't think British exceptionalism would give us any chance of success. Because we are truly not exceptional.
Our made-in-Poland blue passports will keep the virus at bay, we've not got enough in circulation yet to provide herd immunity but the Poles are working on it. :D

1andrew1 26-10-2020 10:30
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Another sector - this time aerospace - pleads for the government to pull its finger out on a deal to help protect the 375,000 well paid jobs in the UK.

Quote:
Ministers’ failure to prioritise agreement on aircraft certification standards in Brexit negotiations is threatening the future of the UK’s £34bn-a-year aerospace sector, according to the head of an industry trade body.

“We are now at that critical point where political decisions on the negotiating priorities with Europe need to be made,” said Tony Wood, president of British trade association ADS and chief executive of aerospace supplier Meggitt.

Aerospace executives are frustrated that the government has focused on fishing rights in Brexit negotiations, hindering a wider trade agreement that would help protect the industry’s more than £30bn in exports.

Mr Wood said there appeared to be “higher political priorities in other industries”.

Currently, responsibility for certification lies with the European Union Aviation Safety Agency, which has mutual recognition agreements with regulators around the world. If there is no deal, however, all UK-designed parts, components and systems for aircraft will become invalid in the EU on January 1...

Big companies such as Rolls-Royce have already shifted design functions out of the UK to the EU to avoid the extra cost. But smaller companies in the supply chain do not have the resources to set up EU-based design offices.
https://www.ft.com/content/4e0d5c6d-...0-d0fe904a36a6

OLD BOY 26-10-2020 13:01
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36054908)
Interesting comment piece in the Torygraph today. The paper is going cool on Brexit. Reality strikes. (Why can i still read it all for free ? :) Very entertaining mind ... ;) )
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...itains-future/
It’s an opinion piece written by Jeremy Warner, who is not a great supporter of Brexit or, in fact, the current Administration!

1andrew1 26-10-2020 14:07
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Farewell Project Fear, Hello Project Near ;)
Quote:
The average weekly shop will become "much more expensive" as import costs for everyday items rise by as much as a third in the event of a no-deal Brexit, a major business group has warned.
Households will be particularly hard hit at the start of next year and into the spring.
The UK will be left without a future trade deal with the EU at the end of December, unless one can be struck in the next few weeks.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1286830.html

1andrew1 26-10-2020 16:12
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
More evidence that The Telegraph has woken up to the follies of Brexit.
Quote:
UK-US trade deal cannot happen if Brexit talks fail, ex-official says
A prized tie-up between London and Washington will be off the table if talks with Brussels break down, according to former assistant US trade representative Barbara Weisel.
She added that any agreement is also likely to be delayed if the Democrats win the White House next month, in a major blow to Boris Johnson’s Government.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...-feeds#image=1

OLD BOY 26-10-2020 19:11
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
[DELETED]

Hugh 26-10-2020 19:14
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
https://media.tenor.com/images/ab3d7...fb4c/tenor.gif


To quote a previous poster
Quote:
It’s an opinion piece
;)

From three and a half years ago...

(by that totally impartial observer, Dan Hannan, ex-Director of the ERG, one of the founders of the Vote Leave Campaign...).

It’s not really the viewpoint of the NY Times, is it?

OLD BOY 26-10-2020 19:43
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Accidentally, I posted an old item striking a more positive tone about Brexit, which is why I deleted it as soon as I noticed it. My apologies.

But I do think that all the negative gripes on here need to be balanced. It’s coming primarily from remainers, who have really taken the result of the referendum badly and find it difficult to admit that this was the will of the British electorate and we now need to make it work.

Here is an alternative view to balance the argument a little bit.

https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-eco...and-the-eu-too

https://www.cer.eu/insights/five-rea...better-nothing

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...l-commonwealth

1andrew1 26-10-2020 19:43
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36055014)
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]


To quote a previous poster
;)

From three and a half years ago...

(by that totally impartial observer, Dan Hannan, ex-Director of the ERG, one of the founders of the Vote Leave Campaign...).

It’s not really the viewpoint of the NY Times, is it?
Comedy gold. To have to go back over three years to find a good news opinion piece about Brexit and one written by a Vote Leave founder says it all. :D:D:D

jfman 26-10-2020 20:04
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36055021)
Accidentally, I posted an old item striking a more positive tone about Brexit, which is why I deleted it as soon as I noticed it. My apologies.

But I do think that all the negative gripes on here need to be balanced. It’s coming primarily from remainers, who have really taken the result of the referendum badly and find it difficult to admit that this was the will of the British electorate and we now need to make it work.

Here is an alternative view to balance the argument a little bit.

https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-eco...and-the-eu-too

https://www.cer.eu/insights/five-rea...better-nothing
Do they? Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself.

If you’ve got genuinely positive information to post of course. But dragging up and old google link you can find with a positive spin just because you don’t like the news is burying your head in the sand.

OLD BOY 26-10-2020 20:11
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055023)
Do they? Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself.

If you’ve got genuinely positive information to post of course. But dragging up and old google link you can find with a positive spin just because you don’t like the news is burying your head in the sand.
I have updated that old link, jfman.

jfman 26-10-2020 20:18
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
August and the start of September. We weren't even in the second wave of Rona back then. Seems like a lifetime ago.

denphone 26-10-2020 20:25
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36055021)
Accidentally, I posted an old item striking a more positive tone about Brexit, which is why I deleted it as soon as I noticed it. My apologies.

But I do think that all the negative gripes on here need to be balanced. It’s coming primarily from remainers, who have really taken the result of the referendum badly and find it difficult to admit that this was the will of the British electorate and we now need to make it work.
The vast majority of what you call "remainers" have long accepted the referendum result so less of the generalising please as its not their fault if the government is running into problems is it.

jfman 26-10-2020 20:28
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36055027)
The vast majority of what you call "remainers" have long accepted the referendum result so less of the generalising please as its not their fault if the government is running into problems is it.
Easy get out for them.

OLD BOY 27-10-2020 00:01
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055026)
August and the start of September. We weren't even in the second wave of Rona back then. Seems like a lifetime ago.
So what? The arguments still stand.

---------- Post added 27-10-2020 at 00:01 ---------- Previous post was 26-10-2020 at 23:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36055027)
The vast majority of what you call "remainers" have long accepted the referendum result so less of the generalising please as its not their fault if the government is running into problems is it.
I’m referring to those remainers who are not accepting the referendum result, Den.

1andrew1 27-10-2020 00:12
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36055048)
So what? The arguments still stand.
The second article is headed Five reasons why even a basic EU-UK trade deal is better than nothing
Did you mean to post that as it's more in line with my views than yours. :D

---------- Post added at 00:12 ---------- Previous post was at 00:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36055048)
I’m referring to those remainers who are not accepting the referendum result, Den.
I think everyone accepts the result, Old Boy. But that doesn't mean that we should stick our hands over our eyes when British industry complains about being made uncompetitive through more red tape and port delays.

Hopefully, you won't follow your great leader's lead and say "F-business". But you have de-emphasised the voice of British industry in favour of one solitary French MEP in Marine Le Pen's far-right party (your other link you supplied "for balance"). I won't.

papa smurf 27-10-2020 08:31
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36055048)
So what? The arguments still stand.

---------- Post added 27-10-2020 at 00:01 ---------- Previous post was 26-10-2020 at 23:59 ----------



I’m referring to those remainers who are not accepting the referendum result, Den.


What about those who claim they have but all their posts say they haven't?

jfman 27-10-2020 08:37
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055065)
[/B]

What about those who claim they have but all their posts say they haven't?
Thinking it'd be good to have a deal with the EU isn't refusing the result. This was supposed to be the easiest trade deal in history after all...

Pierre 27-10-2020 08:48
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055067)
This was supposed to be the easiest trade deal in history after all...
Only if you remove the politics.

1andrew1 27-10-2020 08:51
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055067)
Thinking it'd be good to have a deal with the EU isn't refusing the result. This was supposed to be the easiest trade deal in history after all...
::clap::clap::clap:

Sephiroth 27-10-2020 09:56
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36055071)
::clap::clap::clap:
Tut, tut, Andrew. It was indeed supposed to be the easiest trade deal in the world but for the EU's solid intent to punish us. Of course you could argue that the politicians should have seen this coming but it doesn't alter the fact of the EU leadership behaving nastily toward us.

Mr K 27-10-2020 10:08
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36055085)
Tut, tut, Andrew. It was indeed supposed to be the easiest trade deal in the world but for the EU's solid intent to punish us. Of course you could argue that the politicians should have seen this coming but it doesn't alter the fact of the EU leadership behaving nastily toward us.
Maybe the EU aren't punishing us, but doing the best for their members?. I'm afraid the punishng/nasty crap Brexiteers come out with, are indicators of an ageing ever more bonkers country. It's a lightbulb realisation of our weak position and their part in causing it. Blame everyone else is the obvious answer. We started this, not up to others to resolve it.


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