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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
ICMP flood doesn't require a good firewall at all to prevent at all.
All it needs is a non-stupid ICMP responder. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Well yeah, the point is that there's any number of ways to mitigate it without disabling the feature entirely.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
No, point is you shouldn't have to mitigate anything.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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The real point is that disabling ICMP isn't a solution by any means. I think that much we can agree with. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
No.
Nobody "does" an ICMP flood to you. For an ICMP flood to occur, your own router has to actively generate it itself. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Have you even read that or understand what ICMP means?
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See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interne...ssage_Protocol |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Because the ping is generated by an attacker and the pong is generated by your own router. For an attack to be effective you have to decide to actively generate those pongs. They are not created by the attacker and they don't come out of nowhere. You have complete control over how many pongs you choose to generate and if you choose to disable your own connection by ponging too much that's your own stupidity. An attacker has zero control over this.
Imagine you're shouting at someone until you lose your voice. They may be provoking you but you're the one doing the actual damage to yourself, and nobody is forcing you to do it. You choose to of your own accord. There would be no damage and no attack if you did not choose to shout back yourself. All a firewall is going to do is cover your mouth when you're shouting. Which is obviously an inferior method of damage prevention than just not shouting as much in the first place. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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I'm not disagreeing on how an attack is done via ICMP, all we seem to disagree with is what can be used to prevent it. You seem obsessed that only one thing should stop it, when all I'm saying is that there are a number of ways to prevent the Denial of Service, so disabling the feature entirely is really not necessary. I don't understand why you can't just agree that there's such a thing as having multiple layers of security. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I've said this multiple times, there is nothing to prevent. You are attacking yourself. There is nothing to stop.
You seem to be unable to grasp the difference between starting something that is stopped and stopping something that is started. You want a room to be dark? You don't need a cover to block out the light. Don't turn on the light to begin with. The light doesn't come on automatically by itself. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
You seem to have missed the point. I've explained multiple times yet you refuse to listen yourself.
Once again. You seem to be unable to grasp the difference between starting something that is stopped and stopping something that is started. It relies on a specific program on your own router deliberately generating enough outbound traffic to cause itself a problem. Nobody is forcing it to do this and a firewall is the wrong place to mitigate this. It relies solely on the router being too stupid to realise it's overloading itself, and any decently programmed router will not be flawed in this way. As you clearly don't understand the fundamental basis of how a "ping flood" works, I suggest you stop digging yourself into a deeper hole. Maybe go read up on how firewalls and ICMP actually works, and how any well-programmed router incorporates an ICMP responder with a built-in rate limiter by default |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Just because the Superhub is stupid like this doesn't mean every other router is, or even the majority are... Anything that runs Linux by default has a built-in ICMP rate limit. Most ISP supplied routers in foreign countries are not susceptible to ICMP flood attacks.
A firewall is still the wrong way to deal with the problem. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I never said it was the right way. I said it was one of many ways.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Surely if enough bandwidth was used sending requests to your IP the downstream could become overloaded even if you didn't respond at all and there is diddly squat your router could do to stop that happening - it would need blocking somewhere upstream of you.
Anyway just what chance is there that a home IP is going to be the target of any form of DoS? Despite seeing the option to defend against DoS attacks in home router settings I fail to see what they could do other than turn themselves off. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Jolly good job our government aren't in the business of monitoring UK subjects web activities then :)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Why would the government care, pinging someone isn't illegal :p
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
You said (DoS) attack. The odd ping isn't an issue but ports scans and Dos attacks I think you'll find are criminal offences. Certainly they will be against ISP T&C.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Nah, there's a difference between a civil offense and a criminal offense.
As for ISP T&C's when you're not a subscriber to said ISP it hardly matters. |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Who said the attack occurred in England or Wales?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
kwikbreaks: Do yourself a favour and stop now, qasdfdsaq will argue semantics until you're blue in the face (See previous page).
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Oh I'm well aware of that. Like others I've had him on and off ignore numerous times but right now I'm just letting it run without getting annoyed.
He is clearly losing this time around having admitted on a public bulletin board to making DoS attacks. Now clearly this couldn't have been done from a home internet connection as they simply don't have the available bandwidth so that leave him either running a botnet or far more likely using an employers kit for illicit purposes. If it's the former he may even have attracted the attention of the NSA who maybe even now have a black helicopter hovering over his bedsit and an orange jumpsuit and latex gloves ready and waiting... OK very unlikely but we can all live in hope. Inidentally had he read past the first sentence in the article proving him wrong he would have seen.... "The law was already in force in Scotland." |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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More importantly, as if the NSA would take anything I said on an internet forum seriously. ---------- Post added at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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ANYWAY, here's something we haven't done in a while - Ping Graphs! [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] Mine is still looking generally pretty decent, a couple of spikes but those were during some fairly hefty downloading (You can tell when the humble bundle got updated with extra games :P). Still, nothing compared to a "real" fibre connection: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...15-01-2014.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Sheesh, look at that minimum latency!
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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I'm not so my base latency is better. I can also show a current chart as I am still on it. http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...15-01-2014.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Nor was I admitting using a BT Infinity connection, simply saying it was possible, contrary to your assertion that it wasn't. ---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ---------- Quote:
You want to make it about minimum latency? https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/01/19.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Well it's usually mine's bigger than yours but if you want mine's smaller than yours...
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...15-01-2014.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2014/10/8.png ---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ---------- Quote:
[/wonders what kind of DDoS would make Kwikbreaks.co.uk's chart go all funky] |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
As you said a while back you no longer have it I'm guessing that isn't your chart.
As my server is in the same data centre as the TBB one I can only assume yours must be on a closer rack.... |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Mine was actually in a different datacentre. Very well peered though. 0.5ms latency across London is achievable on the faster providers.
Though I did once set up a ping monitor to ping the pingbox itself. Sadly I can't create any new monitors anymore :( |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I can still see green on your chart!
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
This is one of the weirdest ****ing matches I've seen on the internet in some weeks.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
You've clearly not been hanging out in the interesting parts of the internet.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
More likely he has been instead of places where this geeky rubbish gets posted :)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/01/17.png
LOOK, NO GREEN, YELLOW OR BLUE AT ALL! I WINS! |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
:D
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Is that a reboot at about 0930?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Yea, leccy ran out :p
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4
Channel Type 2.0 2.0 N/A N/A Channel ID 5 7 N/A N/A Frequency (Hz) 45800000 Hz 60300000 Hz N/A N/A Ranging Status Success Success N/A N/A Modulation QAM16 QAM16 N/A N/A Symbol Rate (Sym/sec) 5120000 5120000 N/A N/A Mini-Slot Size 128 128 N/A N/A Power Level (dBmV) 33.3 dBmV 34.3 dBmV N/A N/A T1 Timeouts 0 0 N/A N/A T2 Timeouts 0 0 N/A N/A T3 Timeouts 0 0 N/A N/A T4 Timeouts 0 0 N/A N/A Is the 603khz a new us frequency? I've not seen it before |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Yup, definitely seems much better now.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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New one on me, not seen that before, but if they are going to use more spectrum for upstream, that can only be a good thing. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
60.3Mhz is nice and high. Extended EuroDOCSIS 3 frequencies finally getting use.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Just installed the superhub 2 (in modem mode), also noticed the upstream frequency 53700000.
Also base latency seems to have increased :S [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
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Nit picking possibly.... ;) Must admit I haven't seen that 60.3MHz frequency only 57.4MHz on Lancing node and I would have thought the former was getting rather close to the diplex filter roll-off? |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Ah but Cisco refers to 5-55Mhz as the "Japanese extended upstream frequency range" ;) Nah you're right, I was using "extended" in reference to EuroDOCSIS being higher than standard NA DOCSIS rather than DOCSIS 3 vs. EuroDOCSIS.
Guess they must be using shiny new diplex filters. In this case the US power on 60.3Mhz is only 1dB more than 45.8. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/m...3899593dc5.png
Already ping is fluctuating a tad only 5 days after a Cat C |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Anyone else getting some packet loss? Can't say I've noticed it affecting anything.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2014/05/2.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I'm not sure what this indicates. Do I see a reboot at 12 noon yesterday? I have detected no changes in config.
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Why do TBB 'Snapshot Graphs' still change with the passing of time when you post them? It all seems so easy. I click on 'share snapshot graph', click on Generate and then select a small graph to copy and paste. Invariable the resulting graph changes with the passage of time when posted here.
The graph I posted yesterday featured a red blip in an otherwise normal chart. I was wondering if this was some kind of firmware update. Here it is again as a 'previous days' chart. [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I saw the same blip at the same time on another VM chart. Probably a routing blip. Firmware is updated upon reboot and would be beta tested before wider release.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...13-03-2014.png That's on a 100mb connection with an SH1 in modem mode. I also haven't noticed any issues with my connection, but packet loss can't be good, so if anyone knows how to fix it, that would be great. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Well here is mine it's been like this scince they droped the traffic management
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...13-03-2014.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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A reboot/firmware update blip would normally be a lot bigger, 1-2 minutes typically. ---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:03 ---------- Quote:
That means if you generate it before the day is complete it will continue to fill until the end of that day. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...11-03-2014.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
My 100mb in normal mode.
Its a bit of a mess! Dont know what was going on overnight though, nothing here was on! http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...16-03-2014.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
That's not a current snapshot, Phil. Was last night the same?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Something definitely going on 2am-4am Live graph below. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/03/23.png Modem mode from last week. Drop off at the end was when the SH was replaced for Wi-Fi issues. http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...10-03-2014.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
^^ I wish my graph was that good, it used to be but since around Christmas it has looked trashy. Could be just since the relaxation and then removal of DS traffic management leading to congestion as speeds have taken a hit on some evenings, once it went as low as 55Mb.
Late last year: https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/03/25.png A few selected graphs since late December/New year: https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/03/26.png https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/03/27.png https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/03/28.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Phil, You got anything on your LAN that does stuff every half hour? Like a NAS?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Im also not aware the NAS does anything to be fair. I also have major issues with iPlayer on Tivo stuttering all the time too. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
The NAS question was a start of probing whether you had a PC application running in the background kicking in according to parameter setting. That would then occupy the LAN which would be handled by the router, interrupting TBB just like speed tests do.
The stuttering - is that when viewing via a wired device on your LAN or is it to the TV? |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Anyone else see a lift in latency at around 10:30pm last night?
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...18-03-2014.png |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...18-03-2014.png ---------- Post added at 09:34 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ---------- Quote:
TV stuttering is on the Tivo iPlayer app, connected via the internal modem or connected to my LAN makes no difference. Lots of chatter about this issue on here and on the VM forums about it. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Phil
My Tivo iPlayer on Full HD doesn't stutter. So that's likely to be down to local conditions. Would you agree? As for the NAS, from my distant perspective, it seems you have told me that the NAS is isolated on the LAN at night. I don't want to send you on a wild goose chase, but I recall that about a year ago there was a similar phenomenon reported and it was diagnosed the NAS was polling out. So perhaps switching it off for a night might reveal something useful. |
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Tivo issues are escalated within VM now and I will be leaving if they are not sorted this week (still in 28 day period). |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Modem mode is good and if you can stay on that I recommend you do.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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I have been hammering the Wi-Fi by copying a huge (50Gb+) folder from my laptop to the NAS for the last couple of hours, I see no effect on the ping graph. I see the latency from last night had fixed itself too, must have been some routing issues in the network? https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/03/23.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
No change on my graph. Must be a routing thing?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Did anyone else get a blip about 02:20 this morning?
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...19-03-2014.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
What ever happened to craigy's ping monitor aggregator site?
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Looking as if it hasn't been updated recently, i.e. no Up to 152Mb slot. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I thought my connection was a bit odd on Monday......
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...17-03-2014.png |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]
Anyone else getting little blue bumps in the graph this morning? Nobody's at home and my server isn't doing anything. Not a massive deal, just looks almost regular. |
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[IMG]http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...22-03-2014.png[/IMG] |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...25-03-2014.png
Bit of a bump last night but it seems to have sorted itself. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/03/11.png
Joined VM over the weekend due to moving into new flat, there doesn't seem to be much consistency.. This is SH2 not in modem mode, would I benefit from grabbing a N66U and using that? |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Yes - the N66U is widely recognised as a top class router. Also modem mode save you all sorts of hassle when you're not sure that the SH/routing is playing up (albeit the SH2 is a credible device). But the router functions of the SH range are stunted and you'll benefit greatly from the N66U.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Not sure what this double red blip was all about. Ignore the stuff around it. That was P2P in overdrive.
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
D3.1!!111
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I put my new Asus RT-AC56U into place yesterday, love it, especially with Merlin's firmware.
It has resulted in slightly lower pings on the graph which I expected but of course my graph is still pretty sloppy and has been this way since December. excuse the red however, it was me changing settings/updating firmware etc. New Live Graph: https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/04/35.png http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...a49ccc26d5.png Just as I post this it looks like the tbb monitor service has gone down, all graphs showing red! :LOL: |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
DITTO
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Did anyone else get an issue at about 14:45 today?
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...03-04-2014.png The reason I ask is because my office's leased line had a similar issue at the exact same time. Too much of a coincidence (There is a Virgin circuit on that line as well). http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...03-04-2014.png |
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