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Hugh 28-09-2019 09:12
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36012027)
It worries me that this whole establishment stitch up will end in riots, the mood in the country is not good, unless your a gloating remainer, which the majority of voters aren't.
Remainers lose Referendum, don’t get what they want, complain a lot, have marches, take legal action in some cases.

Brexiters don’t get what they want, threaten riots and civil insurrection.

Maggy 28-09-2019 09:51
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Ahem! Could we stop reverting back to the sort of behaviour that gets members fracked please? Debate and discuss please.

Carth 28-09-2019 10:14
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Accusations, allegations, whispers in dark corners, hastily scrawled notes passed under the desk . . been happening since time began.

Anyway, besides all that, will the Tory party conference be a shambles of an affair with many MP's having to travel to and from Manchester/London daily?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ive-conference

Quote:
In normal circumstances, parliament adjourns to allow MPs to attend their party conferences, but opposition parties have argued that “parliamentary democracy and scrutiny during the current constitutional crisis” should take precedence.
Quote:
Jeremy Corbyn said he would vote against any attempt by the government to introduce a new recess. “I don’t see why Boris Johnson and his team should be able to run away from accountability yet again,” he said.
sounds familiar? But mostly it's just been shouting at each other :rolleyes:

1andrew1 28-09-2019 10:23
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36012034)
Accusations, allegations, whispers in dark corners, hastily scrawled notes passed under the desk . . been happening since time began.

Anyway, besides all that, will the Tory party conference be a shambles of an affair with many MP's having to travel to and from Manchester/London daily?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ive-conference

sounds familiar? But mostly it's just been shouting at each other :rolleyes:
The Opposition should have allowed a recess but BoJo lost all goodwill by proroguing Parliament. These are not constructive times but if you play with fire, you risk getting burnt, as BoJo has found.

In other news, the Brexit Party is no fighting back with BoJo impaled by his own incompetence and lack of a majority.
Farage: “The reason Brexit party voters aren’t going to go back en masse to the Conservatives is we just don’t trust the Conservative party and we don’t trust Boris Johnson...Is Boris truly a Brexiteer?”

papa smurf 28-09-2019 10:36
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36012031)
Yes, Remainers are nice, and Brexiteers are nasty. Always been the case ;)
Once a riot starts rioters don't really care about a person's political views or their view on the legal system, everyone and everything is a target, the feeling across the country is that the result of the referendum is being ignored this is stoking up anger and sooner or later it will be vented,and it should be noted that rioters don't wave around bits of cardboard with silly slogans on them,as i said it worries me,i'm not making a political statement i'm just saying it's a bit scary.
__________________

Sephiroth 28-09-2019 10:50
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Brexit really is on a knife's edge. Parliament is wreaking revenge on Boris by not allowing a recess for the Tory conference, during which time they'll do more anti-Brexit stuff.

The country is bewildered by all these goings on. From what I've read, it wouldn't surprise me if Parliament passes another law to make it the "Member state" in the context of A50, then sending a letter to request an extension on the basis of an upcoming GE.

The EU will grant that extension and off we go into a new set of unknowns.

Parliament has been a dishonourable disgrace. Boris has been little better.

OLD BOY 28-09-2019 11:06
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36012038)
Brexit really is on a knife's edge. Parliament is wreaking revenge on Boris by not allowing a recess for the Tory conference, during which time they'll do more anti-Brexit stuff.

The country is bewildered by all these goings on. From what I've read, it wouldn't surprise me if Parliament passes another law to make it the "Member state" in the context of A50, then sending a letter to request an extension on the basis of an upcoming GE.

The EU will grant that extension and off we go into a new set of unknowns.

Parliament has been a dishonourable disgrace. Boris has been little better.
As things stand, there is no upcoming General Election.

Sephiroth 28-09-2019 11:11
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012039)
As things stand, there is no upcoming General Election.
Then the EU wouldn't have a reason to grant a short extension to 31-Jan-2020.

Mr K 28-09-2019 11:22
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36012037)
Once a riot starts rioters don't really care about a person's political views or their view on the legal system, everyone and everything is a target, the feeling across the country is that the result of the referendum is being ignored this is stoking up anger and sooner or later it will be vented,and it should be noted that rioters don't wave around bits of cardboard with silly slogans on them,as i said it worries me,i'm not making a political statement i'm just saying it's a bit scary.
__________________
Agree re. the rioting. But does beg the question if this is all worth it if it divides our country forever ? Seemingly it will whichever way this ends up. I still blame Cameron, he only did do try and save his failing career. It's brought out the worst in everyone. Extremists, agitators are loving it, some of them are now in positions of power. This used to be a nice tolerant welcoming country, setting an example to others, and seemingly never will be again.

1andrew1 28-09-2019 11:38
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36012045)
Agree re. the rioting. But does beg the question if this is all worth it if it divides our country forever ? Seemingly it will whichever way this ends up. I still blame Cameron, he only did do try and save his failing career. It's brought out the worst in everyone. Extremists, agitators are loving it, some of them are now in positions of power. This used to be a nice tolerant welcoming country, setting an example to others, and seemingly never will be again.
Both Boris Johnson and David Cameron put career before country. It did not end well for one of them and it's going terribly for the other.

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012039)
As things stand, there is no upcoming General Election.
Once there is either a Brexit agreement or extension, bet your bucks on an election. November is a likely month for an election.

OLD BOY 28-09-2019 16:45
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36012045)
Agree re. the rioting. But does beg the question if this is all worth it if it divides our country forever ? Seemingly it will whichever way this ends up. I still blame Cameron, he only did do try and save his failing career. It's brought out the worst in everyone. Extremists, agitators are loving it, some of them are now in positions of power. This used to be a nice tolerant welcoming country, setting an example to others, and seemingly never will be again.
Cameron called for a referendum because the EU issue was dividing the country. He only requested that small changes be made and the EU rejected them out of hand, which simply stiffened the resolve to do something about it. Had the EU just been a bit more flexible, none of this would have happened.

One thing this whole episode has taught us, surely, is that referendums are not a good idea, because it polarises everyone in a rather dangerous way. It is an alien concept in the UK and I think it would be better if we reverted to party manifestos and general elections to determine policy.

jfman 28-09-2019 16:51
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012059)
Cameron called for a referendum because the EU issue was dividing the country. He only requested that small changes be made and the EU rejected them out of hand, which simply stiffened the resolve to do something about it. Had the EU just been a bit more flexible, none of this would have happened.

One thing this whole episode has taught us, surely, is that referendums are not a good idea, because it polarises everyone in a rather dangerous way. It is an alien concept in the UK and I think it would be better if we reverted to party manifestos and general elections to determine policy.
A laughably poor take. The EU issue wasn’t dividing anyone outside the Conservative party. It ranked low on issues the public cared about at elections, usually less than 10% of the public considering it a major issue.

Had the EU been “just a bit more flexible”, like what? The Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative Party were never going to be placated. It was a matter of principle that they wanted out.

papa smurf 28-09-2019 16:52
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012059)
Cameron called for a referendum because the EU issue was dividing the country. He only requested that small changes be made and the EU rejected them out of hand, which simply stiffened the resolve to do something about it. Had the EU just been a bit more flexible, none of this would have happened.

One thing this whole episode has taught us, surely, is that referendums are not a good idea, because it polarises everyone in a rather dangerous way. It is an alien concept in the UK and I think it would be better if we reverted to party manifestos and general elections to determine policy.
The problem is the day after an election the manifesto is worthless.

jfman 28-09-2019 17:00
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...knife-comments

After Brexit what’s the next aspiration? more cuts in Government spending and reducing the size of the state further. Makes it easier to sell everything off to the US I suppose.

denphone 28-09-2019 17:05
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36012061)
The problem is the day after an election the manifesto is worthless.
Manifesto's ain't worth the paper they are written on as go through the main parties last manifesto's and that will tell you why.


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