Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

- Ambushed by birthday cake (In English: I broke my own rules that I asked everyone to follow)
- Ambushed by energy prices (In English: I presided over a regime that closed power stations without replacing them, leaving the UK heavily vulnerable to geopolitical disturbances.)
- Ambushed by pinching allegations about a whip (In English: I was warned twice about Chris Pincher but ignored it as he's a mate and mates before country and Party, right?)

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Off to see Zelensky today. Presumably asking him how to ban opposition parties and trade unions.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

You missed ambushed by trying to change the rules so your friends can be as bent as hell and take bungs.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

If I listed everything I'd be typing all week! :D

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Good point :)

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

All trivia, of course and a diversion by his detractors from the real issues.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Few would dare pretend they were trivial matters.

He created these problems by his poor decisions. They were not created by his detractors nor by his apologists.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

You're out of luck with the truss bot then, a robot on valium and I think I speak for the majority who just want an adult in charge for a change

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Of course they were trivial. There are far more important matters to be concerned about both in this country and the rest of the world.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Corruption, energy strategy and multiple allegations of sexual assault are not trivial matters, Old Boy.

It's time to stop viewing Johnson's Conservative Party as if it were a Premier League team at the end of the season facing relegation that needs every shout from its supporters.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1661416242

https://twitter.com/tomfoxtom/status...niwUSRA8b19IrQ

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

So the energy crisis is "trivial"?

Interesting viewpoint…

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Make that 3,500% since 2016

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Perhaps you might like to look at the governments of other countries before you rush to judgement on ours.

In the scheme of things, the criticisms of the PM that forced him out of office are indeed trivial.

---------- Post added at 13:28 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

The energy crisis is not trivial, and I didn’t say it was. It’s certainly a lot more important than partygate.

The energy price hike was caused by the war in Ukraine, as you well know, and our energy supplies are in far better shape than many EU countries are facing.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

So we should accept mediocrity and poor performance because other countries do it? What a way to base your standards

5,500% since 2016

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

The UK. Not as shit as some other countries.

The tourist board should put that on the side of a bus.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

There’s always room for improvement, but if you throw out a PM because he doesn’t meet your exacting standards when those standards are one of the best in the world is bordering on crass stupidity.

---------- Post added at 13:35 ---------- Previous post was at 13:34 ----------

The UK is a leader, and the take you have on it as demonstrated in your last post is typical of your twisted view of things.

Anyway, let’s move on - this is, once again, getting tiresome.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

If your own delusions are tiresome at your end just imagine how the rest of us feel.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Expecting those that lead us regardless of their political affiliation to not lie and to abide by the rules that they themselves set is an exacting standard, gotcha

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Someone must have hacked your account…

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Given recent sewage discharges, that's not something parts of the UK will want to shout about! ;)

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

It's not as shit, just covered in shit

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Come and have a swim it could be the making of you.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

If you were contacting me from somewhere a bit warmer than Lincolnshire I might take up your kind offer! :D

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

It hasn't dropped below the mid 70s for months

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

1970's :confused:

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

What is trivial is blaming our government for a crisis that occurred elsewhere. Had the Ukraine war not happened, we would not have an energy crisis.

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------

Well, Andrew will need to re-charge soon, so that might be a good idea!

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

It's almost as if it's the job of Government to take back control.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Had we kept our gas storage facilities, the impact would not have been so severe…

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/our...in-the-making/

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1661449451

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

I don’t think any government other than Russia could have avoided the Ukraine war.

---------- Post added at 19:24 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

Mr Hindsight strikes again!

We have less storage because we are in the middle of transitioning to clean fuels.

You can criticise government for getting rid of gas storage capacity too early if you like, but you would be ignoring growing public opinion that we needed to speed up our reliance on fossil fuels.

We would have been ok had it not been for Putin’s aggression.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Actually, my married name is Mr Risk-Management.

As Mrs Risk-Management said to me, why didn’t we do what the other Major Economies did, which was keep the storage until we were near the end of the transition, reducing the impact of any unforeseen supply events?

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

That’s not the reason we outsourced our energy security to a KGB agent who doesn’t like us. It’s a consequence of it.

Who knows though, in different times we might be putting his son in the House of Lords for services to the Conservative party.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Are you a Scooby-Doo fan by any chance? ;)

As I said before, our laissez-faire approach to energy has left us heavily exposed to geopolitical risks. You don't need hindsight to understand the risks in our approach.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Rather foolish to get rid before the so called "transitioning" has happened.

Yes, and rightly so.

Ummmmm.. You may want to read that again.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

You have inadvertently hit the nail.

The planet is dependent on fossil fuels and will be, for a long time.

Our fixation with “net-zero” is an elitist western fallacy, which could destroy our economies.

We should be investing more in fossil fuels, not less.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

:rofl:

Yes let's invest more in fossil fuels putting us further at the whims of dictators, as opposed to sustainable energy right here at home. Dare I say even employing some lazy, unskilled Brits in the process. Future PM Liz would be proud.

Our economy being destroyed (compared to what exactly? Now?) would be a good laugh tho. It'd at least prompt the conversation of how we got here and an admission that the free markets don't solve problems despite the myths. They profiteer from them and get taxpayer bailouts when it goes wrong.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

We have plenty of domestic fossil fuel reserves.

You can have your laughing emoji, but it doesn’t get away from the fact that the “planet”, cannot function without fossil fuels, and will require fossil fuels far beyond our lifetimes and our childrens lifetimes.

The fact that despots control much of the globes fossil fuel reserves is the West’s folly.

This current crisis is by our design. We have abundant coal, oil and gas reserves. We just lack the will and investment to extract them.

There is no green solution, globally.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Coal mining. Priceless. Absolutely priceless.

At least we will have the jobs to match the fall in living standards back to the 1970s.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

You have no response to the actual issue being discussed, no surprise.

Coal mining…………I’ll think you’ll find it is quite a common thing, globally. I recall Germany has an absolute massive opencast (the worst kind) operation, that they have increased massively due to shutting down nuclear.

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/28/10109...=1661464695710

The planet is dependent on fossil fuel and will be long after us, so why are we constraining our childrens future?

Carry on like this and living standards will be 1870’s not 1970’s.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

If anything is constraining our children’s future it’s the £2 trillion of debt getting passed down to them, unaffordable housing, low wages, yet I don’t hear you offering a solution for any of those.

There’s no point in us returning to extracting fossil fuels we’d only privatise it and sell it to the highest bidder having negligible impact on the market price :rofl:

Unless Pierre you are having an epiphany on us - that it’s state controlled?

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Accelerating climate change through burning more fossil fuels will definitely constrain our childrens' future. It will burden them with a need for increased investment in infrastructure to cope with more extreme weather.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Don't think you should be calling anyone Mr Hindsight when you think how often you enjoy rolling out you Gordon Brown gold comment, and as usual it's always someone else's fault, how about blaming your lot for selling all our national resources?

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

:tu:

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

People don't want nuclear - waste lasts too long.
Don't want unsightly wind turbines spoiling their views.
Don't want tidal systems that get in the way of their boats.
Don't want mining near them - oil/gas/coal.
Don't want fossil fuel burning power stations near them.


Do want power delivered to their homes both gas and electricity at a reasonable (cheap) price.


It's easy to say what we should have done but consecutive governments have listened to the public and ended up where we are. If we had built more nuclear power stations that would have left more gas for home consumption but upset the anti-nuclear brigade.


One good thing in this crisis will be to focus more attention on saving fuel and hopefully research to fusion and hydrogen fuels. Nothing like a crisis to increase inventiveness.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Are you actually still in charge of your own computer OB? Because these posts increasingly read as if they’re being generated by a Twitter parody account.

Literally nobody involved in decimating our gas storage capacity thought they were doing it as part of a green wind-down of our gas network. Centrica (the formerly state-owned owner of this formerly state-owned piece of infrastructure) refused to pay for its renewal because they thought it was too expensive. The government likewise refused to write an enormous cheque for it.

Strategic gas storage is an insurance policy that ought to protect the continuing smooth running of national infrastructure in the event of unforeseen problems. Insurance is there to pay out on contingency - I.e. the whole reason you have it is for those “we would have been ok had it not been for” moments. Your argument is absurd. I bet your house isn’t uninsured.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Ouch !
Who are the 26%? Beggers belief they should be allowed out of the asylum to vote ! ;)

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

:zzz:

Pushing your luck again, with unfunny insults.

Talking of allowing stuff, or not, in your case, you may just find out, access to this topic also becoming revoked. :dozey:

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Lower than a snake's belly.:td:

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

I can see 26 dropping even lower than that this winter.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Yeah, because Labour have all the right answers…. Or apparently not….

https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-...6d79-190084149 :rolleyes:

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Labour dispute that analysis (I’ve not read it, so don’t have an opinion on it) but other parties are available. Equally a poll is just a poll, it’s easy to pick an alternative without actually voting for one. With the Government rudderless on so many fronts, and the forecasts for energy to get even higher in January and April, it’s very conceivable that they’ll poll lower than 26 whether Labour have better ideas or not. It’s very likely neither party has an adequate solution at this point but that won’t stop millions of households giving the Government a kicking.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Labour seems to have not fully costed the plan, so some of it is borrowed. That said Truss is openly stating she'll borrow to cut taxes. Seems better to borrow to help people afford to heat this winter than to cut taxes.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Freezing energy it at the current level looks a little unrealistic.

Perhaps aim for middle ground, say £2500, a 25% rise is a lot better than 80%.

Also, rather than just cut taxes (as in the % rate) why not just raise the 'free' allowances.
The current 'Personal Allowance' is £12,570 - if you increased it to say £17,570 then anyone on minimum wage (£8.91/hr) would not pay tax.
That would be worth just over £80 a month to people, and be easy to implement.

You could also raise the rate for very high earners (50K plus) to help pay for it.
I realise this all sounds very labour like, but there has to be some kind of plan in place.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Welcome, Paul :D

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

I saw this idea on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/stat...87390452035586 from the Chief Executive of a think tank.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

I agree there has to be a radical plan, I think we can all fathom this despite which side of the political spectrum we all sit on.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Torsten Bell generally talks a lot of sense.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Bringing the leadership contest back into it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62703858

I can't see if Truss really thinks this and will stick to it or not? It will be a disaster if there isn't more support even for middle earners. A VAT cut won't help because a lot of essentials are already at a lower rate and it's the sheer price of energy bills that's the problem.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Agreed, all plans to date are fundamentally tinkering round the edges of the problem. I suspect everyone is waiting for the solutions to become politically palatable. It’s an honest conversation with the voters that I think many so far would prefer not to have to face up to.

And yes, that’s both sides.

Starmer can’t even commit to a higher minimum wage than the Tories will deliver by 2024.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Tory alarm at ‘suicidal’ talk of a Boris Johnson comeback as prime minister

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7...2f8000425d75fc

It must be terrible having to survive on £165k per year, with your main accommodation paid for and a second mansion in the country…

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

I think the differentiators between Starmer's Labour and Truss's Conservatives will be around other lines than spending. That comparison really only held true when comparing Corbyn to May as Johnson has been a high-spending interventionist and more of a One Nation Conservative... or at least has portrayed himself as the latter.

The necessity of support to alleviate fuel poverty won't see the end of Conservative high-spending and borrowing. I doubt Truss shares Johnson's enthusiasm for investing in tax-payer bets on non-strategic companies like Black Sheep Coffee and Bolton Wanderers or supporting strategic companies like Tata Steel but political realities may change her mind on the latter.

Truss's Conservatives seem to be less of a one-nation Conservatism and more a tilt towards those at the top with lower employee rights and lower taxes on higher earners.

It will be interesting if once in power, she listens to business on such issues as over-borrowing, Channel 4 privatisation and closer harmonisation with the EU to reduce red tape and grow exports.

Re: Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...6#post36133236

New thread started for new PM to be announced very shortly. This one is now closed.