Re: Hamas Israel War
 

He's not, the demands for a ceasefire have been squarely directed at Israel.

and I haven't seen anyone demanding an immediate ceasefire, also demanding the immediate release of all the hostages.......funny that.....

First things first.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Hamas have exceeded the Israeli kill rate of civilians on one single day in the last month. If Israel unilaterally ceased fire, Hamas would barely nudge the dial on civilians killed. If they moved it at all.

The only hostages getting killed are by Israeli bombs.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

I don't the releasing of the hostages would stop Israel, but it may make them open to a temporary cease fire, and or a string of cease fires enabling people to leave, aid to get it in etc.

It's one of them, Netanyahu said so in his speech last week.

Well the problem is that Hamas and pretty much every bordering state would happily ethnically cleanse all Jews, without a second thought.

The two state solution is a non-starter because Palestinians don't want it, and have already turned it down at least once. For Palestinians and Palestinian supporters the only solution is one state solution.....a Palestinian state, from the river to the sea.

Therefore, it is logical that the only solution for Israel is a one state solution...... Israel, from the river to the sea.

Call it what you want.

---------- Post added at 16:12 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------

So they should release the hostages then, and there may be room to talk


you don't think the hostages should be immediately, unconditionally released?

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

There’s no real evidence for the claim that any of the states bordering Israel want to ethnically cleanse Jews. It’s a Zionist dog whistle.

It’s definitely a non-starter if Israel are complicit in the political functioning, and funding, of Hamas over the status of the Palestinian authority.

The scenario you describe would be called genocide because that’s what it would be, not because anyone on this forum claimed it so.

Doesn’t sound like much of a commitment to be honest.

You asked the question why you don’t hear as many people calling for it. I simply pointed out the biggest threat to the lives of any hostages is the same threat to all the civilians (including women and children) in Gaza. An Israeli bomb.

At some point it’s up to people how they want to expend their energy, and there’s a clear rationale for why a ceasefire is of greater humanitarian importance than the release of hostages. The only rationale for not doing so is valuing a lesser number of Israeli lives above a greater number of Palestinian ones.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

That’s one of the most laughable statements from you, from any time.

All Jews inhabiting neighbouring states were driven, and Israel ever succumbed to those states in a war, it would be a genocide, a proper genocide.

https://youtu.be/p9YcAEYr7Ww?si=6Ys1VpIbsejpJMkA


Sorry, you’re going to have to help me out with that.

Israel is surrounded on all sides by Islamic Arab states. Egypt has all of Sinai, that could easily accommodate all Palestinians. There wouldn’t have to be a genocide displacing Palestinians to neighbouring Arab states.

But neighbouring Arab states don’t want Palestinians at all.

Israelis don’t have that option, Israelis could not be displaced to neighbouring states as they would all be dead in a few months.


Well, when you’re outgunned and your very survival depends on how you play the few the cards you have, you have play with what you’ve got.

It’s irrelevant, Hamas is a jihadi death cult, so they won’t do it. If good Muslims die they go to heaven so they don’t care if their own people die, if they kill infidels…well they deserve to die anyway.

I’ll take that as a no. I wasn’t asking for analysis, I was asking you what think and it’s a yes or no answer.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Except for the UN

https://press.un.org/en/2023/ga12555.doc.htm

and 35 Israeli Jewish and Arab Rights Groups

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...b-b77e8a860000

The Pope

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...se-2023-10-29/

Amnesty International

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...ives-humanely/

Oxfam

https://www.oxfam.org/en/open-call-i...nian-territory

The Scottish First Minister

https://www.gov.scot/publications/ce...tical-leaders/

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Sorry Pierre I thought history started on October 7. If we are going back further, only to further the Zionist cause, you must permit the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinians prior to your arbitrary start date be brought into the debate.

It’s difficult to work out a response to the rest of your post since you seem to be advocating a genocide, something to universally reprehensible the arguments rarely need made, I’ll save the rest of the forum members from the back and forth.

You are only seeing what you want to see, and cherry picking events from a complex history to suit.

Israel already occupies Gaza by any international standard and once they have boots on the ground long term as Netanyahu indicates nobody can be surprised when whatever state apparatus Israel puts in place will becomes a target - and a legitimate under international law given the atrocities committed by Israel in the last month. There’s no victory, military or moral, to be had.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

and why is that?

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Did you read that, or just see the headline on your Google search, and copy and paste it?

“Some” Members of the UN did. The representative of the League of Arab States whilst demanding a Ceasefire certainly doesn’t.

Also they couldn’t even agree to unilaterally condemn the atrocities of Oct 7th……….good old UN.

I know you didn’t read this one as you have to subscribe to it.

The letter, which isn’t published, and I’ve checked several other sites and still not seen it, doesn’t ask for immediate release of hostages. It asked for a ceasefire and to “work towards” a release of hostages…..very different.


I’ll give the Pope his due………but he is the Pope. Your other links also pass muster.

But in future if you’re just going to do a Google search, and copy the headlines that look like they align with your point, I’ll think even less of you than I do now…………

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

I’ve never said that.

I didn’t set an arbitrary date.

I’m happy to go back to the 16th century BCE if you like.

No it’s quite simple, I break it down even simpler. As we know only a single state solution is acceptable to Palestinians. Relocation of Palestinians is not a genocide, there is ample land in Sinai and other neighbouring Arab states to accommodate Palestinians to enable a single Israeli state solution.

To flip it the other way, to a single Palestinian state solution the Jews cannot relocate anywhere n any neighbouring Arab state, as they would all be killed in a matter of months and that would be genocide.

Quite simple really.

no I’m not, as I say, I set no arbitrary date, I’m happy to go back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Israel only entered Gaza in the last few days. It has not occupied it since 2005

You and I have a different definition of atrocity.

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:46 ----------

Do tell us.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Last time I tried I was told it was pie in the sky and despite just days later the US Secretary of State telling Israel much of what I suggested was the right thing to do I think I've learnt my lesson, besides which you're the one with the bright ideas, why would you suggest something without being in full receipt of the facts and potential ramifications

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Israel have killed more than ten times the number of people Hamas have, decimated the lives of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands more.

I’ve no real need to mention the actions of Hamas - it’s been covered extensively. To qualify every criticism of Israel’s failure to adhere to what were, until 4 weeks ago, internationally recognised standards any civilised country should adhere to at war with the criticism of a terrorist organisation is unnecessary. Israel and the Zionist propaganda machine have enough out there, including the paid shills of our political class, my words are unnecessary. Israel’s actions are beyond justification and I’m not participating in such a charade.

I’ve no desire to commit a crime in this country, or any other, so campaigning for Hamas would be foolish. Neither is it consistent with my own beliefs in any case.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

That would be an invalid statement - the Palestinian Authority has worked towards a Two State Solution a number of times.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution

Unless you are stating that Hamas represents all Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, even though they are banned in the West Bank and 74% of the current population of Gaza have never voted for them?

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

I genuinely have no idea what you’re talking about..

---------- Post added at 23:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

I urge everyone to read this article, yes you too JFman, because it also validates your stance, and Chris’ and possibly Hugh’s as well.

There is……there is no answer…depressingly……until there is eventually a full on genocide of the Jews.

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/is...tate-solution/

= Chris’ and I think JF’s earlier point.

I think, as I have said above a couple of times now, this only ends with the eradication of one people from the region, be them Jew or Palestinian.

Palestinians would not be eradicated, as they can migrate to neighbouring states, if Israel fail to protect themselves………they will be exterminated.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

It's an interesting article but it doesn't state the reason why "Israel will prevail in those conflicts with the Palestinians until, one day, it doesn’t."

The country is in two parts, incredibly poor, has no airport and airforce and its population cannot freely leave the country. Providing it's kept like that then I can't see it can ever prevailing against Israel.