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Chris

14-12-2021 20:04

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36105683)

Vaccinated are still carriers it is not a wrong statement to say, saying it should be helpful because you can be blindsided in to believing that you cannot pass on covid, as a vaccinated person, when you most certainly can.

No evidence has been shown that I am wrong because I am absolutely not wrong, given the experiences I live with day to day in a healthcare setting and quite frankly, you ought to know me by now that I stand by what I post on here and the fact remains, vaccination does not stop transmissions regardless of what some dodgy statistics says from hardly a reputable source.

I know you do, I know it’s stressful and I know the latest round of rule changes is just making a highly complex situation worse. I went to visit my mum in her care home yesterday and the staff are absolutely at their wits’ end with it.

But statements of absolutes really don’t take us further forward, even though our yearning for things to be simpler or easier to deal with is strong and understandable. Some vaccinated people can still carry covid, but most don’t. Public policy is based on the extent to which either of those is true, and as the data improves the policies follow. It’s messy but it’s where we are.

mrmistoffelees

14-12-2021 20:06

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36105686)

Sure the LFT is safer (although people can lie on it).

But I don't think they want to go that far yet. They're just playing the numbers game by accepting some proportion of the vaccinated will still be carriers but it's small enough that's it not worth disrupting events/hospitality to account for it.

Your point stands with Delta, but isn’t valid with omicron imho (based on limited data we have) on

People are being or were being told to take a lateral flow test before meeting friends etc. I don’t see why everyone can’t take an LFT and put the result in the app?

Hugh	14-12-2021 20:25

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36105689)

Your point stands with Delta, but isn’t valid with omicron imho (based on limited data we have) on

People are being or were being told to take a lateral flow test before meeting friends etc. I don’t see why everyone can’t take an LFT and put the result in the app?

We did before Mum’s funeral yesterday (and asked all 50+ attendees, who were coming from all over the country ) - a reasonable number of attendees were 60+ (one was 95, Mum’s older sister), and everybody complied; they understood we were trying to reduce the risk for those attending the Service in the Church and the Celebration of her life afterwards at a local hotel.

We can’t do everything, but we tried to do what we could.

(Actually, we asked for people to take two - one, a couple of days before, and one in the morning of the funeral; two families had positive results on their first test, took PCR tests, and a member of both families tested positive on those tests as well, and didn’t travel/attend).

Pierre

14-12-2021 20:33

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36105612)

Sick of reading misinformation and crap posted like this - if you have ALL the vaccines, you CAN still pass it on, it is a medical and scientific fact, I don't want to see comebacks of, well the vaccine helps to stop transmission, or it lowers the chances of it being passed on, Utter nonsense!- no it does not in any significant way, you can still get covid, vaccine or no vaccine, so this bullshit about the unvaccinated being the risk and we need to curb their freedoms, it is nothing but pure fanciful authoritarian bullshit.

It’s a fallacy anyway, in so far that the number of people eligible for the vaccine, that have chosen not to take it, is very small.

Trying to push the narrative that the unvaccinated are a problem is just incorrect.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:27 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36105646)

Are you sure?

Your so called liberal buddies, 99Balloons, sorry Ianch99 and Mr K, calling for the unvaccinated to lose their freedoms. This is discriminatory on health grounds and absolutely not liberal in the slightest.

It’s always the, self, righteous that are usually the most authoritative.

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36105648)

The missus has her second eye op on 5th January next year.

The letter says she has to go for a PCR test on 1st Jan, then the entire household MUST self-isolate at home from that same morning until after she returns home on the 5th Jan. "THE ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD SHOULD NOT GO TO WORK, OR MEET WITH PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE HOME".

It also says that if her PCR is positive, or if anyone in the home tests positive before her op, the entire household must self-isolate for 10 days. The op will then be rescheduled for a later date.

Must be an NHS thing, I had two eye operations in Dec 19 and Feb 20 in the height of that wave and had to do no such thing. But I went private……………

Mick	14-12-2021 20:34

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36105688)

Chris, the care home industry is on its knees. Homes are getting some additional funding but it’s still doesn’t cover all the voids they have. (Voids = empty rooms).

I’ve said much earlier probably in now the other closed thread, but when there is not enough staff to care for a fully occupied home, this is extra old people occupying hospital beds.

Now tonight, MPs vote through mandatory vaccines for NHS staff, 73,000 are not jabbed, not going to get into the reasonings for this, but if they don’t get jabbed, that’s a lot of vacancies on an already troublesome industry suffering from shortfalls. We’re going to have a third world health industry with this governments handling of it. I’m close to walking away myself it is this bad and this government, just doesn’t give a shit, so why should I continue?

Pierre

14-12-2021 20:37

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36105673)

Vaccines reduce the chances of a collection of people, in a closed environment, transmitting the virus. That is a fact, no ifs or buts. The idea of the passports is, I suspect, to apply this logic to indoor spaces and so reduce the onward transmission and so, in turn, reduce the load on the health service resources.

It’s a bit thin though……..isn’t it.

Mick	14-12-2021 21:01

Re: Coronavirus

99 Red balloons. Sorry 99 Tory Rebels voted against its own government, 17 Tory MPs abstained, so 116 Conservatives failed to support it’s own government.

Mad Max

14-12-2021 21:02

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36105685)

When brakes are applied just before a car crash, they often lessen the impact, but don’t stop it - still worth applying the brakes, though…

Absolutely.

Paul	14-12-2021 21:06

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36105599)

Now PCR tests RUN OUT too: Chaos as government website says no drive through and walk in swabs are available in England on last day someone can catch Covid and be out of isolation for Christmas after lateral flow test delivery problems

They were available around here - I know someone who drove to a site this morning and got a PCR test.

spiderplant

14-12-2021 22:15

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36105681)

Regardless of where things are stored an LFT give a better live data set as to if someone is infected or not.

Unfortunately LFTs have a false negative rate of up to 50%.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...g-surveillance

Mick	14-12-2021 22:34

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36105710)

Unfortunately LFTs have a false negative rate of up to 50%.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...g-surveillance

Herein lies the bigger issue, false negatives on an LFT. I’ve routinely tested positive on LFT’s forcing me into isolation until a PCR lab tested result comes back negative which supersedes LFT results.

So here we have Covid Passports or a negative LFT test law passing in the House of Commons tonight, we can thank Labour for this, as they would only support the Governments Statutory Instrument with the inclusion of a negative LFT test with Covid Passports, also, an LFT test isn’t fool proof, one could simply not do the test properly to create a negative test, thus, rendering the whole thing meaningless. No proper scrutiny by Her Majesty’s official opposition. Utter shambles.

ianch99

14-12-2021 22:48

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36105696)

It’s a bit thin though……..isn’t it.

What is "thin"?

---------- Post added at 22:48 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36105698)

99 Red balloons. Sorry 99 Tory Rebels voted against its own government, 17 Tory MPs abstained, so 116 Conservatives failed to support it’s own government.

Why are you talking about balloons?