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-   -   Britain outside the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709659)

Hugh 15-03-2021 17:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36074347)
Oh Andrew. Is the EU not an unfriendly, nasty, revengeful organisation using the letter of the treaty to royally screw us over?
By asking us to "enter into good faith consultations in the Joint Committee, the body which oversees the protocol, with the aim of reaching a mutually agreed solution "?

First "intransigence" and now "royally screw us over" - can I suggest you return your etymological reference source and ask for a refund? :D

1andrew1 15-03-2021 17:53
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36074347)
Oh Andrew. Is the EU not an unfriendly, nasty, revengeful organisation using the letter of the treaty to royally screw us over?
No. The West does not need such treaty-breaking, it only benefits the country's genuine enemies.

David Frost needs to cease playing his Perfidious Albion role and engage with the agreed mechanisms if wants an extension. That's what he negotiated in December.

Sephiroth 15-03-2021 18:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36074369)
By asking us to "enter into good faith consultations in the Joint Committee, the body which oversees the protocol, with the aim of reaching a mutually agreed solution "?

First "intransigence" and now "royally screw us over" - can I suggest you return your etymological reference source and ask for a refund? :D
No you can't. You have a warped attitude to the EU - or else you're just trying to wind me up or both.

Hugh 15-03-2021 20:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Not trying to wind you up - just pointing out your ‘interesting" interpretation of some words.

Speaking of warped attitudes to the EU, have you perhaps been in the vicinity of a looking glass recently?

Chris 16-03-2021 15:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56415197

Quote:
Ford has announced that diesel engines for a new generation of its Transit Custom van will be built at its factory in Dagenham.
The company says the move will help to safeguard jobs at the site, which currently employs 1,900 people.
The engines will be exported to Turkey, where the vans themselves will be assembled by Ford's local joint venture company, Ford Otosan.
#DespiteBrexit :dozey:

Sephiroth 16-03-2021 17:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36074397)
Not trying to wind you up - just pointing out your ‘interesting" interpretation of some words.

Speaking of warped attitudes to the EU, have you perhaps been in the vicinity of a looking glass recently?
Ignoring the nastiness coming through in your remark, the EU as an institution is self-demonstrably every bit as bad as I, and others you don't pick on, describe.

They are clearly intent on punishing the UK and offering none of the leeway we have requested.

Hugh 16-03-2021 17:57
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
But if you have a treaty, any "leeway" should be under the terms of the treaty, not unilateral action (by either side) - otherwise, what is the point of (any) treaty?

I’m sorry if you found my humour "nasty", it was not intended to be - I was just pointing out that you tend to have an extremely partisan view on these things, and trying to do so in a light-hearted manner.

1andrew1 16-03-2021 18:01
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36074467)
Ignoring the nastiness coming through in your remark, the EU as an institution is self-demonstrably every bit as bad as I, and others you don't pick on, describe.

They are clearly intent on punishing the UK and offering none of the leeway we have requested.
I'm sure that if the UK had requested it, an arrangement could have been found. Instead, David Frost has donned BoJo's Perfidious Albion cap and proceeded with intent to breach an international treaty.

It's a flawed strategy as we need to build our goodwill to try and add to the Brexit deal eg to make it easier for our musicians to tour Europe, a sector where we enjoy a balance of trade surplus.

Sephiroth 16-03-2021 18:32
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36074468)
But if you have a treaty, any "leeway" should be under the terms of the treaty, not unilateral action (by either side) - otherwise, what is the point of (any) treaty?

I’m sorry if you found my humour "nasty", it was not intended to be - I was just pointing out that you tend to have an extremely partisan view on these things, and trying to do so in a light-hearted manner.
Yeah - right.

I'm sure that a lot of people (52% at least) would agree with me that notwithstanding the terms of a treaty, if real difficulty arises when the treaty is implemented then the other side could be more sympathetic and helpful than they are being. Friendship obviously counts for nothing because they have no friendship for the UK - only intent on punishment.

You surely can see that.



---------- Post added at 18:32 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36074469)
I'm sure that if the UK had requested it, an arrangement could have been found. Instead, David Frost has donned BoJo's Perfidious Albion cap and proceeded with intent to breach an international treaty.

It's a flawed strategy as we need to build our goodwill to try and add to the Brexit deal eg to make it easier for our musicians to tour Europe, a sector where we enjoy a balance of trade surplus.
Are you sure about that, Andrew? Very little if anything has come out as to what Frost has been doing and the outcome of any talks he's held with the EC.

On your point about making it easier for our musicians to tour, etc - it's a worthy aim but I wouldn't bet on the EU giving us any concession in that regard. But musicians can wait while we get the real difficulties with the NI Protocol sorted out. After all, we are only asking for an extewnded grace period so that we can eventually comply with the treaty.

Hugh 16-03-2021 18:34
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
We didn’t ask for anything - we told them we were doing it.

Sephiroth 16-03-2021 18:52
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36074472)
We didn’t ask for anything - we told them we were doing it.
My understanding is that we asked them through channels and they said no.

Hugh 16-03-2021 19:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36074478)
My understanding is that we asked them through channels and they said no.
Any evidence to back that up, as no one in HMG has stated that?

There were discussions in early February about these things, but the talks were ongoing until the U.K. unilaterally said they were happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-brexit-checks
Quote:
In a joint statement Gove and Šefčovic said: “After a constructive discussion amongst all parties [it was] concluded that the UK and the EU would immediately work intensively to find solutions to outstanding issues … [Gove and Šefčovič] will keep in close contact as this work progresses, and will meet again next week in London.”

The meeting came after Boris Johnson accused the EU of appearing to “cast doubt” on the Good Friday agreement, with last week’s decision to invoke article 16.

It is understood that a new specialised committee, mandated under the Brexit deal, will be quickly set up and will convene in the next two weeks to thrash out a solution. A signoff is expected at a meeting of the UK-EU joint committee, which Gove and Šefčovič pencilled in for mid-March.

1andrew1 16-03-2021 19:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36074478)
My understanding is that we asked them through channels and they said no.
The channels were not used, the UK just sent out a press release. As well as threatening court action which it hopes won't be used, the EU has requested that the appropriate channels are used in a side letter to David Frost.

It requests that the UK enters into good faith consultations in the Joint Committee, with the aim of reaching a mutually agreed solution by the end of this month.

David Frost's aggressive stance is in marked contrast to Michael Gove's more constructive approach. Perhaps it's designed to keep the ERG happy, but it looks unlikely to help us build on the foundations of the Brexit deal which we need to do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56381046

Sephiroth 16-03-2021 19:17
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
We don't know what went on behind the scens.

Of course, I can't rule out that it was another Boris trick like the one he tried last year to sort of scare them intro submission.

1andrew1 16-03-2021 19:26
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36074483)
We don't know what went on behind the scens.

Of course, I can't rule out that it was another Boris trick like the one he tried last year to sort of scare them intro submission.
If BoJo or David Frost had wanted to paint the UK's actions in a better light, I'm sure they would have claimed that their overtures were rebuffed. They haven't.

They've also not disputed the statement that "The UK resorted to this unilateral action without any discussion or consultation with the EU side in the bodies established by the Withdrawal Agreement."


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