Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Oh but it will exist and it will go on :Yes: and on :Yes: and on :Yes:.:spin::argue::walk::hugs::hyper::no::Yes:

---------- Post added at 05:36 ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 ----------

And waiting is something us Virgin customers are good at.;)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Not a VM insider, but investment houses have a view as well, they may well have intimate knowledge though and their view is very very positive and these people are gambling with lots of cash.

And that's why I say, everything comes to he who waits

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Yeah because the people gambling with lots of cash have a terrific track record in the last half decade.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Yes and Gordon Brown was one of them....

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

So would you place a bet based on speculation on here or based on what you hear from investment houses?

Still reckon everyone will be impressed in the coming days, far more certain than I was a few weeks ago

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Lets hope your right it needs sorting out quickly or it will drag on and more people will leave but I will be patient and everyone else should be

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Well, I was in a good mood this morning - this thread always lifts my spirits, but the time has come to move on to another now.

I will say goodbye to all the "where is BT Sports" until an official announcement is made, - thanks for all the entertainment over the past few days.

(Oh, and goodbye young_timbo who will surely be banned for that outburst - if a lowly paid nurse had not been there, I would be dead by now) - in my opinion, footballers may be talented, but worth what they are paid ? - never.

I do hope we get the sports channel, even though I probably wont watch "that much of it, but equally, I hope we dont have an increase in our subs to pay for it !

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Moving on swiftly, any news this morning?

---------- Post added at 08:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 ----------

I hope so too. See you around. :)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Agreed ;);)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Disappointing the way this thread is turning :( Can we not get back to complaining about being shafted by Virgin :). Someone also posted earlier that they were surprised to see Den post in a negative fashion about this weeks (non)events. He's an optimist but not a half wit, this affair has been a massive own goal by Virgin and to post in a positive fashion about it would be stretching credibility too far even for the most ardent fanboy of Virgin.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

The quality of communication on this issue from Virgin Media to its customers has been very very poor in my mind. Sure, business negotiations have to remain confidential but to keep people who are spending a lot of money with VM every month in the dark, reveals a total lack of respect in my mind.

---------- Post added at 08:34 ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 ----------

A excellent post my dear Henke but ardent fanboy :nono:

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I've Got to be honest I'm checking out of here for a while, there's enough trash in this world without listening to it on here.

Later people. All the nice people(majority) have a good day, see you again soon.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

No no Den didn't mean you were a fanboy, meant that even a fanboy couldn't dress this up. Honestly no offence to you meant in the slightest.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Wow, what an 'interesting' night this thread has produced and look at all those reported posts!

It is a great shame that some have lost the plot and seem unable to focus on the point at hand.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

See you soon.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

l know that Henke but you know me as its good to have some reasonable banter sometimes to lift the spirits of the many.:):handshake

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

and I for one enjoy reading the friendly banter - shame some on here have taken it one step too far

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Hi Denphone, I totally respect what you write here being a watcher for a few years, however as much as I would be one of those who get is annoyed about lack of information im not sure what else VM could of done; for instance they have given plenty of warning that ESPN was going it not as if as a regular watcher of ESPN I could of not known as they put slates up telling me, on the website they informed that as of 1st August 2013, that my bill will not change as a result of its lost and they confirmed they are trying to acquire BT at a right price. They even sent a booklet showing what other sport I can watch in the absence of ESPN, although not the same but all of the above is information, whether we like the outcome re: we havent got it and Im paying too much for XL then yes I do have issues with it but VM have actually kept us informed with the current situation.

I think a few people around on CF still criticise them for not getting channels on certain days based on what people have said here. I got my gripes with VM i.e. not all HD, BT etc but in this case they have kept people informed, unfortunately we just didnt like the outcome

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

VM never ever been good at that Den as we all know it they worst part

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Dave and Den nothing has changed over the years, VM are very poor at communicating with there customers .

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

yep and it not change sadly

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

they are in talks, no deal has been made and they confirmed in good tiem the loss of ESPN from 31 August. I dont like what I heard but they did communciate this im not sure what else they could of done with regards to communciating this? Are we mixing up communciation and the outcome here? for example if BTdid just magically turned up as per ESPN current set up and rules (free for XL) on 1st August without any announcement would people have complained about poor communciation. I doubt itwould be same level as now

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

That is the main downside to VM

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Indeed it is but remember there are many upsides as well Mr Stokes.:)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

There are a few i agree but the big one has now gone

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

but it could be back as you well know ;)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Remember nothing's over till thy fat lady sings and she does have a habit of surprising us and remember a pledge is a pledge and we have not forgotten that.:)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I doubt it

I havnt seen SuBo so it is over. And that pledge no longer valld as it was about the launch of BT Sport which has now happened so no pledge needed :)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Do I hear the unmistakable sound of back-peddling? ;)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

your not getting out of it that easy it was about it being on VM on XL not at launch of bt sports was no time scale at all on it pledge still stands

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Optimism - welcome back

Remember nothing's over till thy fat lady sings and she does have a habit of surprising .

And again

Great to have the old Den back
:wavey::welcome::Sun::ghugs::clap::hyper::hyper:

---------- Post added at 10:36 ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 ----------

Stupid question.......

How do you do multiple quotes on here......

:dunce::dunce:

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

You click the button NEXT to the quote button on the posts you want to quote.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Thanks Clint - memory's going :)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Were you dazed&confused? (Bad joke)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Sorry, you'll have to excuse me, I'm new here.

This mediaboy, does he actually have 'insiders' and 'inside information'?

I am always very sceptical about stuff like this, in fact frankly I believe it's a load of crap.

Has he ever actually had any exclusive inside information that has actually come true?

I'm sorry you'll have to forgive my ignorance here.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

It is funny how all 4 ESPN Channels are showing on the TV Guide, & all 4 are still lit up like you still have the channel...Just to tease us lol

Is there any real reason why they are still lit up & showing whats on the channel in the guide, & why they still have espn america & classic in the guide even though the channel is no longer available. would this just be if they do get BT sport channels they will just replace them there in the listings and change the names lol

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Pledge stands there was no such time frame! We are on your case! ;)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

There is a chance she's gone on a diet and that's why VM are so quiet.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Some will no doubt say they are being kept on the guide to swap over to BT.

I on the other hand think they are there to remind XL customers of all the great sport that Eurosport has to offer

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

It's a possibility. :) Who knows?

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Virgin are taking the mickey out of customers on Facebook now. Some guys wasnt happy and asked virgin how he can now watch the dundee game and virgin suggested he go the pub lol. He went mad

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------

Any one heard anything on virgin giving sky sports half price to compensate? ??? Just wondered if it was true I doubt it like

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Seriously? lol. I can't help but laugh at that one. :)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

he'll need the drink to sit through that.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Definitely! or two...maybe three. ;)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I'd like to hear Virgin's response if I asked how I'm supposed to watch this weekend's UFC fights...my options are now only 'illegal' :)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

To be fair to Media Boy as well he has not once actually confirmed that SA and BT were ever coming and in fact was through his inside information able to cast the first true doubts that anything was confirmed

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I too read but rarely post. My recollection is that all this anticipation of BT Sport and Sky Atlantic did not come from Media Boy but from a new poster who to the best of my knowledge has never posted since!

Keep up the good work, Media Boy.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

The phonecall with virgin I've just had is the clearest indication I've had that we are not getting BT Sport anytime soon.

I rang up to get my Sky Sports Package re-instated, and they said they are offering a deal with Sky Sports now in which you get it for half price for three months, but you are bound to a 12 month contract with Virgin meaning you cannot cancel your TV, Phone or Broadband in those 12 months.

So they are basically trying to stop people leaving.

I did have a chat with her about BT Sport, she didn't know much really, she just said "We're in talks, as we have been for ages. Hopefully we will get it. I think they are just trying to get as many of our customers as they can"

So she was implying that the sticking point is with them, and not with Virgin, which I don't really believe.

But there you go, make of it what you will.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Media Boy is one of the genuine ones... :-)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

But how do you know it is not speculation?

I am asking for any evidence of this.

I just don't believe people having 'insiders', sorry.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Nope

Someone should have stated the pledge carries on after launch, as no one did i win :D

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Please don't post in RED, its sore on the eyes.........:eek:

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

and you never said it ends at launch pledge stands mr stokes :D:D:D:D you lost you did the pledge and it still stands ;)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I think Media Boy gets genuine insider info when VM allow things to get out as sometimes he is asked to hold off to a certain time. He has been right on many occasions.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Well, that is your prerogative, of course. Why then are you even bothering to read this thread?

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

No it's not, you could purchase a Sky Box from eBay or Cash Generator, get a freesat from Sky card and pay for BT Sport, I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks that leaving virgin entirely is the only way to get it!

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I don't buy it, I'm sorry.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Ok so no time frame was posted by me or anyone else so as i made the dare i can say when the timeframe was :)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

All of this thread is speculation its just that MB has his ear nearer to the ground than anyone else so if he says something is coming (soon) he is believed, if he says it can't be confirmed then we wait (some more patiently than others admittedly) and if he says it's not coming any time soon we know we'll have to wait a little (or a lot) longer.
If you don't believe MB that's your choice but don't dis him just don't read his posts or this thread if you don't like speculation.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

doesn't work like that mate sorry it stands :D:D:D but if it don't come to VM your safe and if it does come and not in XL your safe too

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I'm sorry but you will have to show me where I have 'dissed' him.

All's I'm saying is people keep saying 'He has his ear to the ground' etc, I'm just asking if there is actually any evidence of this, because as a rule, I don't believe these sorts of things.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

+1

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Just called VM and still no info so have downgraded my XL to M+ for now will give them two weeks and decide if I'm going to move on (the Sky deals are actually pretty good if you are into Sports).

Did not save that much as I thought about £14 a month but apart from ITV4 HD and FOX HD when The Walking Dead starts again I'm not really missing much that I usually watch.

Anyone else done the same?

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Then just ignore his posts and wait for the official announcements..

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I think he's referring to the fact that you basically called him a liar.

MB has been on here for years running the coming soon threads and has been right the majority of the time, that's all I need to know.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Exactly right, thanks.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Virgin are now offering 3 months half price on the sky sport package but only if taken on its own you cant mix it with the movie package. and it starts you up on a new 12 month contract..Oh and the biggie you have to keep sky sports for that 12 months full price after 3 months. Is this really the biggest carrot you can dangle in front of us VM to keep us happy?

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

It does. It doesnt stand. Im always safe :)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

They are making it worse for themselves!

Sky offered me 6 months half price Sports for a 12 month commitment + a free 2GB Sky+ box. I think they would probably offer more if I pushed them on it.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I think you need to stop putting words in my mouth.

---------- Post added at 12:45 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------

The deal is you can't cancel anything for 12 months.

So if they do not have BT Sport by the time the Prem starts, then you can;t cancel your broadband, or TV, without paying the rest of the contract.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Maybe you didn't mean it that way but the following to me says that you don't believe MB when he says he has insiders, that means you think he's lying?

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Dont you mean 2TB :D:D

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

No, I am not accusing him of lying.

What I am saying is, is there any evidence of his insiders, as generally I don't believe people when they say they have 'inside info' as a rule.

It's not hard to understand.

If there is, and he is right most of the time like you say, then fair enough.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

2GB sky box ! - I think my phone has more memory than that !

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

And once they've got you for 12 months, they'll give you a nice £3+ price rise on Sky Sports come October..........

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

is get out clause on contract for what serve price goes up on

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Okay okay so the Typo Nazis' got me ;) - yes 2TB

Alas I remember the days when 2GB seemed a lot.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

It was only a few years since I brought 16mb of memory for my old 486 computer ! - and a few years before that a 16kb rampack add on for my ZX81

Those were the days

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

The deal is you can't cancel anything for 12 months.

So if they do not have BT Sport by the time the Prem starts, then you can;t cancel your broadband, or TV, without paying the rest of the contract.[/QUOTE]


The bloke that i spoke to must not know his facts then lol

I rang them because i was cheesed off with ESPN & got talked into getting sky sports, I tried haggling on the price but all i got was "we dont ever do price deals with sky sports or sky movies, this is the price we get it for" So feel even more cheesed off today a few days later you can now get 3 months half price. VM must have known this deal was coming..Yet the bloke at VM today was very surprised at why i might be p**sed off even more hearing that lol

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

A 4GB would do nicely for me.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Just had a tweet back from bt saying talks stopped between them and vm yesterday,I asked if true on Facebook to say there probably on a natural break.thought they would work round the clock on this one clearly vm ain't as bothered as there customers

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

The bloke that i spoke to must not know his facts then lol

I rang them because i was cheesed off with ESPN & got talked into getting sky sports, I tried haggling on the price but all i got was "we dont ever do price deals with sky sports or sky movies, this is the price we get it for" So feel even more cheesed off today a few days later you can now get 3 months half price. VM must have known this deal was coming..Yet the bloke at VM today was very surprised at why i might be p**sed off even more hearing that lol[/QUOTE]

That's what the woman told me when I rang up today.

It seems that the staff don't even know what the offers are :D

---------- Post added at 13:06 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

So now when they say 'talks are ongoing' they are actually not?

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

They do seem in a muddle at VM, I spoke to three different people over the last few days and all with different stories, one that channels coming in a few days, one said in time for PL kick off and the one today saying that talks still ongoing but no idea if it will happen at all, she also said she was getting it in the neck from her husband about it which made me laugh.

I want to avoid being tied into any 12 month contracts etc... while things are up in the air. So that's why I've downgraded from XL to M+ for now. If we get to 17th August and there is no BT Sport/ESPN in sight then I will weigh up the deals.

Have to say I'm getting less optimistic by the day.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I'm with you Rich, currently out of contract and just biding my time to see what happens.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

That's what the woman told me when I rang up today.

It seems that the staff don't even know what the offers are :D

---------- Post added at 13:06 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------



So now when they say 'talks are ongoing' they are actually not?[/QUOTE]


Yer correct,I have just run retentions and was told if you ain't happy leave,I replied great customer service and the response was well we are getting sick of customers moaning.slammed the phone down.emailed CEOs office and just in a q to speak to sky

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Yer correct,I have just run retentions and was told if you ain't happy leave,I replied great customer service and the response was well we are getting sick of customers moaning.slammed the phone down.emailed CEOs office and just in a q to speak to sky[/QUOTE]

in this context, yes that is pretty poor communication and customer service something that they are in complete control of sorting out

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

A friend of mine as just pm me thru Facebook and he as just been onto retentions,he heard him whisper to is collegue we got another and when he complained and quizzed about bt sports he replied look we ain't getting it anytime soon,have you any friends with sky where you could go and watch it.it would seem under the new owners we are getting less channels next to no customer service flaming disgrace

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

To be honest, what did you expect them to say! - if you are unhappy with the loss of a channel, then you leave.

Sure I would phone them to argue the case, but from what I can see, it's pretty simple. If you want the missing channels, you change provider

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I suppose it's all down to how badly you want the channels that we haven't got at the moment. If you want them so bad, maybe looking at other providers is the better option for you. Whereas if you're willing to wait a while (it could be a long while) we may get them at some point.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Gone to the Dark Side this morning. Was on VIP. In contract but Virgin let me cancel without penalty. Moved to a combination of Sky and BT. Paying BT £45 for BT Infinity 2/line rental/weekend and evening calls and friends and family Intl and of course BT Sports. Sky even better deal. 1x sky+ HD box/1 x sky+HD 2TB box, including movies/sports and entertainment extra + all in HD with multiroom. All for £60 a month, (25% discount for 12 months). This is including the future price rises due in September.

All in getting BT and Sky for £105, while VIP was costing me £114. Trade off is guaranteed BT Sports and SKY Atlantic against slower broadband speed. With Virgin was getting about 90 Mb while BT advise I should get 65 Mb.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Not one single person on this thread will know the ins and outs of any talks Virgin and BT have had regarding these channels. They would be under a NDA in any case.

Unless I am wrong, neither side have made an announcement to explain why Virgin do not yet carry the channel -we all assume it is over price, but the truth is, we just dont know.

I agree Virgin could be a little better in communicating this to us all, but we do have to assume they are doing their very best for us, despite what we may think.

I am still sure we will get the channel in one form or another at some stage.

---------- Post added at 13:40 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38 ----------

Thats actually not a bad deal - I am not looking to change provider, but the inclusion of movies in that price is a good one

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Gone are the days of VM being polite on the phone and trying to keep aur custom from their rivals. Last few times ive rung up always fell im being spoke down to & the feeling of why you wasting my time lol

The bloke i spoke to today at 12pm said ive been on since 8am and nearly every call BT sport has been brought up. So if VM staff are p**sed off talking about it, then they should think what we customers feel paying for a service & being told not much lol

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

The way it going and from what is being posted on here , they will not need to get the BT sports channel as everyone who wanted it will have moved to sky :)

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

l agree with you but lets hope that long while is a just a couple of weeks;) as l feel the longer this goes on then Virgin l am afraid will lose more and more custom to their rivals and that's never a good thing because it will be very hard to get that custom back.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

The Sky deal is very good. I'd of never considered moving from VM but losing ESPN and no access to BT could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

It's so ironic that it's the lack of BT Sports that are driving VM customers to SKY!

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Yeah, the only way to claw back so many people with very little effort is to do a publicity stunt. For example...BT Sport in XL?? That could be why it's taking so long. I doubt it will happen but crazier things have happened.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

Maybe they are fed up to the back teeth with the calls they are receiving but the fact remains customer service staff should at all times treat the customer politely and respectfully and not with the attitude of oh no not another one.

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.
 

I know what you mean. The thing is Virgin have things that BT want, BT have things that Virgin want and sitting there in the back is Sky with a full house!