Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Those aren't contradictory. She 'fights for democracy' and then gets threats for it.

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Don't forget though that some MP's represent constituencies that voted heavily in favour of remain. So do they follow the will of the country or the people that voted for them?

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I think MPs should vote for it personally. If you put it out to a referendum then you've explicitly chosen to forgo your own judgement in favor of the people. Those who didn't vote for the referendum could in good conscience not vote for Brexit I guess.

However MPs aren't actually bound by it nor do they have to vote for what's popular in their own constituencies. The theoretical idea is they represent us but are meant to use their own judgement as well.

---------- Post added at 11:32 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

Yeah they could have the wrath of their own electorates too. Remember this was a close run thing so many MPs are caught between a rock and a hard place.

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People get all sorts of threats for all sorts of things thanks in large part to our social media obsessed society. No it's not very nice but that's the world in which we now live. Thankfully 99.99% of 'threats' so issued amount to no more that a lot of unpleasant hot air but if you're going to expose your views openly on such contentious issues it is now to be expected. Ask Farage about it.

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Obviously learnt a thing or two from Turkeys president :rolleyes:

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I'm in no way condoning threats of any kind it's a disgusting way to behave and the second you engage in that behaviour you nullify any argument you have, i just don't think gina miller is the crusader some are making her out to be and i think there is something beyond her intentions that isn't good. As i said though if you had been on the end of the level of abuse she claims and having now won her case why is she still trying to be involved in this and not backing away. We are so social media driven now that mob mentality is alive and well and exists on both sides there is no shortage of morons in this world.

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It's strange that the so called shadow home secretary, Diane Abbot, suddenly became too ill to vote on the Brexit bill last night. I'm sure she didn't put her job/career prospects and close friendship with Corbyn ahead of her true feelings on such an important issue she apparently felt so passionate about beforehand... :rolleyes:

https://order-order.com/2017/02/02/c...er-article-50/

Just love her comment, referred to in the comments, "we weren't sent to Parliament to abstain".

Typical hypocrisy.

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She is a disgusting piece of work that one and she uses racist language and gets away with it, Labour have no hope of winning any Election with Corbyn at the helm but she is just as bad as he is, so what you have here is two for the price of one, one set of imbeciles.

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Maybe.

---------- Post added at 20:21 ---------- Previous post was at 20:13 ----------

David Yelland ex-Sun editor was interviewed about it. He said that it was foolish as Paul Dacre had been in the position for 25 years and generated £millions for the Rothermeres so the chances of anyone influencing the proprietor were minimal. An editor needs to have the readers and proprietor on board which Dacre does.
Worse was the possibility of Paul Dacre finding out and holding it against David Cameron. Dacre was understood to have found out before the proprietor told him on 24 June 2016.
One of Cameron's worst calls, more so because his background is in PR and he should have known better.

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She wasn't to ill to go to the pub or tweet that night and considering at least 2 MP's attended the vote whilst having cancer treatment I'm not sure a headache is reason enough to miss it, someone said earlier they remember MP's in the '70's being brought to parliament on stretchers to vote.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...te-Brexit.html

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She epitomises everything that I despise about politicians

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No wonder many in this country are turned off with politicians as all they see in front of them is self serving , obfuscating , contradictory , untrustworthy , ********ting slime balls.:td::td::(:(

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A perfect example of how low political standards have dropped and exactly why people are voting in ways no one would have thought of a decade ago.

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It's not over yet. MORE legal challenges.

There'll be even more votes in parliament required because the current bill only covers leaving the EU. We joined the EEA (Single Market) separately in 1993 and must use Article 127 of the EEA Treaty to give notice to leave. The current bill only asks for authority to trigger article 50.

Don't you just wish the muppets in power had the sense to avoid all this by having decent legislation covering all angles before hand...

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Those arrogant muppets never thought the voters would reject the EU so they didn't bother to make contingency plans. Hence the chaos now. :(

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Personally i believe cameron knew exactly what he was doing with the way the referendum was setup in order to create maximum trouble if in his mind the highly unlikely result was to leave the EU. That's why he quit he knew the total mess he'd created and didn't want to be the one to sort it out easier to quit and let the next one get all the carp.

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The High Court has ruled that the government does not need to deal separately with the issue of the EEA.

https://order-order.com/2017/02/03/b...by-high-court/

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But what would all the lawyers do then?...

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An interesting article of which this is just the summary.
NB Some newspapers may use the terms "intelligence" and "educational achievement" interchangeably. They are not the same thing.

Local voting figures shed new light on EU referendum
The BBC has obtained a more localised breakdown of votes from nearly half of the local authorities which counted EU referendum ballots last June.
This information provides much greater depth and detail in explaining the pattern of how the UK voted.

The key findings are:

• The data confirms previous indications that local results were strongly associated with the educational attainment of voters - populations with lower qualifications were significantly more likely to vote Leave. (The data for this analysis comes from one in nine wards)
• The level of education had a higher correlation with the voting pattern than any other major demographic measure from the census
• The age of voters was also important, with older electorates more likely to choose Leave
• Ethnicity was crucial in some places, with ethnic minority areas generally more likely to back Remain. However this varied, and in parts of London some Asian populations were more likely to support Leave
• The combination of education, age and ethnicity accounts for the large majority of the variation in votes between different places
• Across the country and in many council districts we can point out stark contrasts between localities which most favoured Leave or Remain
• There was a broad pattern in several urban areas of deprived, predominantly white, housing estates towards the urban periphery voting Leave, while inner cities with high numbers of ethnic minorities and/or students voted Remain
• Around 270 locations can be identified where the local outcome was in the opposite direction to the broader official counting area, including parts of Scotland which backed Leave and a Cornwall constituency which voted Remain
• Postal voters appear narrowly more likely to have backed Remain than those who voted in a polling station

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

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Hmmmmmmmmmm, so educated, young , multicultural voted remain.

Pretty descriptive of liberal luvvies.

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Yougov polls 18th January

Looks like the public are in favor of hard Brexit.

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Andrew, you really need to stop posting crappy artlicles that hold no basis whatsoever as to why or how people voted the way they did. Posting crap like that is just being provocative. It's another attempt to try and justify and ridicule brexiteers.

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

Good. Common sense prevails.

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Unless a census has been taken of how people voted and why along with detail of who those people were and their background - which I'm sure hasn't been done - then any "study" is just a whole load of assumptions.

Which doesn't tell you anything.

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It's not a study showing why people voted the way they did but the demographics of the areas that did. It's not too different to the wider picture that we knew from the night. I don't see the harm in better understanding the demographics of the vote.

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Hardly a representative study with less than half of the councils responding.
Not even a study but a breakdown by our luvvie BBC. Not that I would accuse them of bias.

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To quote Mick, "Posting crap like that is just being provocative" :)

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How would you describe liberal luvvies then?

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Mick,
1) I do not post crappy articles and I find your description inflammatory and disappointing. I do not need to justify the credentials of the BBC to you or anyone. It is an authoritative source.
2) Why do you think the article is provocative? If you feel the article is provocative then please state why you feel that it is and don't shoot the messenger. If you can do this effectively then people's views on the article may change. Calling it crap does not generally work unless you're preaching to the converted which serves little purpose.
3) I am not ridiculing anyone. I've good friends who voted both ways and feel strongly about their views. There's nothing in there that would offend them.
4) Please do not try and read my mind. My objective is to contribute useful discussion points to the debate. We all fail in this area from time to time but this is not one of those occasions for me.

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 ----------

I honestly don't see the harm in such analysis either and personally I find it interesting.

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Why must you attach pejorative labels to people who hold different views to you?

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If generation snowflake is offended I'm sure they will put me on their ignore list to save their sensitivities being hurt.

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That wasn't the question though Pip. The question you were asked was "Why must you attach pejorative labels to people who hold different views to you?"

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It was an opinion on the "useful" article you posted.

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So what's the answer to the question posed by ianch99, namely "Why must you attach pejorative labels to people who hold different views to you?"

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It's a thin veiled attempt, by the left leaning BBC, which really no longer holds a justifiable reason as to why people need a TV license to keep that thing going, cannot remember the last time I watched anything on any of the BBC channels.

That article is basically discussing Educational Traits as if it is some kind of scientific concept as to why people voted the way they did.

If we really need to know why people voted for brexit, the way they did.....

• 1) They want out of the failing EU.
• 2) They are fed up with open borders to all and sundry. Migration levels that were meant to kept to tens of thousands is way over hundreds of thousands, it's alright people saying let them in blah blah, people in the North of the country are fed up, because it seems those who live in posh areas, down south are not getting their fair share of migrants coming to live in their community and are usually the ones jumping on the 'let them in' bandwagon, cheeky hypocrites that they are.
• 3) They want their Countries Sovereignty back. Laws made and created in this country.
• 4) That we can freely trade with who we want.
• 5) Our Fishing Industry was suffering badly and the EU fish quota being put on and other EU members coming in to our Waters to fish.
• 6) Massive feelings of being left behind by Government, Northern Districts being badly under funded, areas being neglected and run down. Made some people consider voting Brexit a protest vote.

Plus many other reasons apply, it is nothing to do with levels of Education or how well one area is 'smarter' than another.

I have no interest is mind reading anybody, my post was solely aimed at you posting stuff up, that went on about levels of Education with voters. We cannot keep blaming education or side stepping all the other viable reasons as to why people voted the way they did.

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So the bbc waste licence payers' money trying to pigeonhole people who don't conform to their way of thinking, SHOCK HORROR!

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It's not blaming anyone though but noting a difference in how various groups voted. In this case those with and without a university education voted differently.

For example maybe the disadvantages of migration hit jobs that don't require higher education more than those than do. Similar to what you've said in point 6.

---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------

This isn't their data, they got it from local authorities.

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Sorry but we have only seen the bbc's interpretation of whatever data they received from local authorities and I don't trust the bbc as far as i can throw them and it's been a longtime since they could be relied upon to be unbiased. There has been a persistent campaign in some sections of the media to classify the leave vote as some kneejerk uneducated expression and I'm getting fed up of it. I don't class myself as overly intelligent but given I've read the relevant articles relating to exiting the EU and by those articles a hard exit is basically forced on any leaving nation yet the better educated continuely repeat their demand of a deal to stay in the single market i have trouble believing remain voters were anymore intelligent.

The left and the globalists are really struggling to understand that people don't automatically agree with them and are happy to do as they are told and that's why brexit and trump are the start of a backlash not the conclusion, people have had enough.

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Thanks Nick and Damien for your contributions to this debate. The report covers the demographics of the areas at a more local level than previously; this is its value.
I genuinely believe the fuller article is well worth a read and in absolutely no way is it a left-wing conspiracy to explain away people's voting intentions.
Whilst it does not re-tread the reasons for people's voting intentions, it does draw on these to explain hyper-local voting patterns that go against local patterns. For example, despite all of Scotland's 32 counting areas coming down on the Remain side "A cluster of six wards in the Banff and Buchan area in north Aberdeenshire had a strong Leave majority of 61%. There is much local discontent within the fishing industry of this coastal district about the EU's common fisheries policy."

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This isn't the first study to show an education divide. Pretty much all of them do: http://natcen.ac.uk/media/1319222/na...final-web2.pdf

Incidentally whilst there may be some correlation level of education isn't the same as level of intelligence. Plenty of dumb people with University degrees and even more smart people with no formal education. Also this is just a broad statistic and there were many people with degrees who voted to leave.

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It is looking like a strong possibility it won't end with just Brexit and Trump...

Marine Le Pen, could be the next shocker for the left.

Don't things occur in 3's ?

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This article is all about the undisputed demographics of the areas that voted. This is public domain data, not the BBC's.
The article is not an argument for or against staying in the EU, that was concluded back in June.
I'll also repeat what I said when I posted my original introduction to this report, intelligence and educational attainment are not the same thing.

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I think at this point people are semi-expecting Le Pen winning because of what happened with Trump.

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True, but she is ahead, in current round of voting, though some analysis says she won't survive the second round.

They said Trump would not make the nominations, he made the nomination, then they said he would not become President, he is now the President.

But this is a whole subject worthy in a thread of it's own possibly , France Elections 2017, whose going to get the ball rolling.... lol ? :erm:

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There's always Geert Wilders lurking in the wings:

Source

Well the yanks did. :D

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This thread is now closed and a new one started here:-

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...php?t=33704414

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I really did not think you would would dare start another Election thread, brave soul lol. ;)