Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's true, we don't have to follow their regulations, that's why our bottle caps aren't tethered to the bottle like their's...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

if it was in the shops and labled as hormone treated and cheap i think many would be interested in buying it ,it's not as if we live off beef, it's a luxury for many.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

In many cases ours aren’t, because we’re not in the EU, and the directive that banned them from 3 July 2024 in all EU member states doesn’t apply here - rather neatly making my point, thank you ;)

Of course many manufacturers will use the EU approved caps anyway out of simple efficiency, but because we’re not in the EU, if there is sufficient customer resistance to them, they’re free not to.

I happen to think in this case they’re a pretty good idea.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think that your assumptions are faulty - based on a mindset derived from dogma. You assume that our current position is permanent. It is not, it depends on the needs of the economy and the desires of the electorate in future elections.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Now you’re sidestepping the question.

Whether or not there’s a move to rejoin the EU in future, that is not in view now. All that is on the table for the next 5-10 years is the question of improved trading relations with the EU and the US. Given that we are not going to rejoin the EU during this parliament (or the next - convince me otherwise) then the question is, what form of trade deal could we make with either EU or the US that would necessarily involve us pivoting away from one of them?

The only form of trade deal that would necessitate that would be a wholly self-defeating regulatory alignment that committed us to adopting regulations on domestic production even on goods that were not for export, and/or restricted us from importing into our market goods that would be banned in another. And the only way that state of affairs could possibly come about would be if we were looking to sign up for some version of association with the EEA that most likely dropped us back in a customs union with the EU.

Sorry but you still haven’t come close to defending your assertion that we have a choice to make, per your earlier statement that a “trade deal with a US on a Trump trajectory that diverges from the need to trade efficiently with the EU requires a clear choice of alignment.”

No trade deal requires such a choice to be made - only negotiations for membership of the EEA would cause that. And it is not necessary to join the EEA in order to work out a sensible trading arrangement with the EU. Which is just as well, because that’s clearly not on the table.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If the UK wants to mitigate the GDP impact of Brexit, it needs to harmonise, to the best it can, the trade alignment with the EU. Doing this will preclude certain concessions that may be asked by a new US trade deal e.g. food standards. To pretend a ¨cake and eat approach" is possible is disingenuous. Here's a Trump aide saying the same thing:

Britain should align with US on trade rather than pursue EU, says Trump aide

You are also ignoring the facts .. the reality where, as time passes, people who wanting Brexit (for what ever reason) move on and are replaced by those who were disenfranchised in 2016 and have desires to align with the EU (and not the US).

The polling slowly moves away from the promised sunlit uplands and towards pragmatic reality. The promises have not been delivered but the harm has. People will start to ask why are we poorer and, after the trauma of 2016 fades, will demand a return to normality?

Dogma does not drive change in the end .. reality & pragmatism does. As the saying goes: ¨Its the economy, stupid¨*

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid#:~:text=%22The%20econom y%2C%20stupid%22%20is,Bush

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Endlessly repeating the same flawed argument doesn’t improve it. ;)

You still haven’t demonstrated why the UK would have to adopt regulations affecting domestic production and consumption in order to forge a better trade treaty with the EU. The only form of trade deal that would impose some or all of the EU rule book on British producers making goods that aren’t destined for the EU, or British consumers buying goods made anywhere except the EU, would be an EEA/customs union type agreement. And that isn’t a trade deal, it’s membership of an EU-adjacent supranational organisation that isn’t on the table. And such membership wouldn’t just preclude trade deals with the US, it would kill all of them, for the same reasons we weren’t able to make deals with anyone else in the world while we were in the EU.

Whether people have changed their minds about Brexit is neither here nor there at this point. Keir Starmer has already called it, correctly in my view. When pursuing trade deals, it is not necessary to make an either-or choice between the US and the EU. Those that do so are, typically, confusing the US with Donald Trump. Trump may be awful, but he isn’t America, and he won’t be around after 2028, assuming he even lasts that long.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Dream on, I still want to remain outside of the corrupted EU & I’m not poorer, speak for yourself.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Have to agree being outside it has done me no harm , saying that had no problem with common market. It's the likes of Hungary * telling the UK what it can or cannot do. Perhaps via its courts etc. Don't forget UK would have no hope of rejoining with joining the euro, in my view :p: * or any other European country can be placed here.:dozey:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Won't be easy for Sir Kier.

https://www.ft.com/content/327d7bd9-...a-68fe89b1c105

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'd happily throw that on the negotiating table in return for a proper crack down on small boats.


I'd welcome any Poles back with open arms, rather than a boat load of jihadi islamists.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

‘No cherry-picking’ insists the EU, as it attempts to pick the cherry that is UK territorial waters and exclusive economic zone. Yet any trade deal is cherry picking by its very definition, as it attempts to give each side something it really wants while avoiding stuff it really doesn’t.

The europhiliac parts of our news media are, I see, still gleefully reporting what the EU wants and demands and expects as if they’re going to be the only ones around the table when it comes time to negotiate. That item is so tilted towards the assumption that the almighty EU must get what it wants it might as well have been written by the greatest Europhile of the lot, Katya Adler of the BBC. Gosh, I almost miss her breathless dispatches from Brussels, for the sheer artistry of her regime apologetics.

The UK is not going to join the EEA, it is not going to rejoin the customs union and it is not going to submit to free movement. Even discussing any one of those things would be politically explosive and would dominate the debate all the way to the Great Labour Wipeout of 2029. They might find some way of oiling the wheels and improving the deal but until the EU stops trying to use the UK as a way of threatening any other member state that might think about leaving, and starts thinking in terms of making a decent, workable trade deal with an important third party, nothing very much is going to change.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Cherry picking is OK when the UK is the destination of those who claim to be fleeing war torn zones.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

At some point - and it won’t be 2029 - someone will credibly float rejoining. The question then is whether it hits a critical mass to become politically palatable by the later end of the 2030s by which time the last referendum will have been almost 25 years earlier.

None of this tinkering round the edges is going to provide a palatable outcome for anyone in the interim.

Leaving was very much a niche political position only 10 years before the referendum. So things can move (relatively) fast.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not sure what the relevance of that comment is, as the refugees/asylum seekers aren’t EU citizens…