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Carth 08-01-2019 22:39
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35978494)
strange Teressa May said again on tv Sunday no Brexit at all

What? she doesn't even want 'her' deal now either??

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35978495)
They shouldn’t make promises they don’t have the numbers in Parliament to deliver. It’s irresponsible at best and at worst unconstitutional.

I think you'll find it's Parliament that are irresponsible at best and at worst unconstitutional. :D

jfman 08-01-2019 22:40
Re: Brexit
 
Irresponsible maybe but never unconstitutional (they can do no wrong, technically ;)) :D

Chris 08-01-2019 23:23
Re: Brexit
 
The constitution is whatever Parliament says it is. There is no written constitution for the U.K. Our “uncodified” constitution is the sum total of all the statute, precedent and common custom that has accumulated since the Norman invasion, any of which operates only until Parliament acts to change it.

mrmistoffelees 09-01-2019 06:18
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35978480)
If I want to call them treacherous, I will, I don't need or require yours or anyone elses consent.

Course you can, You would be wrong however

We elect MP’s based on them acting in the best interests of their constituents not to blindly follow their constituents instructions.

The sovereignty of parliament it’s a wonderful thing

1andrew1 09-01-2019 07:19
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35978509)
Course you can, You would be wrong however

We elect MP’s based on them acting in the best interests of their constituents not to blindly follow their constituents instructions.

The sovereignty of parliament it’s a wonderful thing
Those voting Brexit were keen to let us know they knew what they were voting for which included sovereignty. But when they see our sovereignty in action, some deem it treacherous.
A no-deal Brexit was rejected by the electorate at the last election when the only party advocating it, UKIP, was rejected by the People. These MPs are therefore carrying out the Will of the People.

Angua 09-01-2019 07:28
Re: Brexit
 
The government we have is a result of the electoral system that is unfit for current political views.

Not really sure why a proper PR system is such a problem (AV was not in any way shape or form proportional)? Stable governments have PR where politicians actually have to listen to the electorate as their votes truly matter.

In 2017 the conservatives were just 141 votes away from a working majority (based on 322 seats being the target as Sinn Fein never sit).

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/s...75898711711745

Sephiroth 09-01-2019 08:23
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35978472)
It’s not noise it’s a constitutional crisis brewing. One that will result in the can being kicked down the road and eventually back to the people.

Britain isn’t in a position to leave the EU under no deal terms and everyone deep down knows it. Cabinet, and the party, is on the verge of open rebellion.

Brexit supporters don’t seem very relaxed considering it’s “inevitable”.
The "constitutional crisis" is the making of anti-democratic behaviour of parliamentary Remainers who refuse to accept the Referendum result and use their disruptive powers at the legislative stage.



---------- Post added at 08:23 ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35978512)
Those voting Brexit were keen to let us know they knew what they were voting for which included sovereignty. But when they see our sovereignty in action, some deem it treacherous.
A no-deal Brexit was rejected by the electorate at the last election when the only party advocating it, UKIP, was rejected by the People. These MPs are therefore carrying out the Will of the People.
That is a total stretch made to fit a Remain argument.

As to your ridiculous "sovereignty" point, you know full well that the goal was post-Brexit sovereignty; the current "sovereignty" is circumscribed by the EU shackles we're still under and evidenced by the Withrawal Agreement.

Damien 09-01-2019 08:44
Re: Brexit
 
MPs represent all their constituents, not just 52%, and so it's hardly as if this is easy for them. Governing a divided country isn't easy. Remember if No Deal is actually pretty bad it will be them who are held to account by the public and not the talking heads who think this is all so easy.

Maggy 09-01-2019 08:47
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35978522)
MPs represent all their constituents, not just 52%, and so it's hardly as if this is easy for them. Governing a divided country isn't easy. Remember if No Deal is actually pretty bad it will be them who are held to account by the public and not the talking heads who think this is all so easy.
:tu:

Sephiroth 09-01-2019 08:54
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35978522)
MPs represent all their constituents, not just 52%, and so it's hardly as if this is easy for them. Governing a divided country isn't easy. Remember if No Deal is actually pretty bad it will be them who are held to account by the public and not the talking heads who think this is all so easy.
I fully understand that point. But collectively, and constitutionally, they have a higher duty to deliver the Brexit instruction.

I do accept that there has to be scope within that duty to mitigate a bad outcome. But the way that some of those wreckers are going about that is designed to defeat Brexit rather than improve the shambolic deal the TM has negotiated.

1andrew1 09-01-2019 08:55
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35978519)
[COLOR="Blue"]The "constitutional crisis" is the making of anti-democratic behaviour of parliamentary Remainers who refuse to accept the Referendum result and use their disruptive powers at the legislative stage.
The referendum result was leave and not a no-deal. The electorate overwhelmingly rejected no-deal at the last election. Why do you have an issue with MPs carrying out the Will of the People? I sincerely hope it's not because you want no deal and wish to ignore the electorate's wishes?

Mick 09-01-2019 09:12
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35978526)
The referendum result was leave and not a no-deal. The electorate overwhelmingly rejected no-deal at the last election. Why do you have an issue with MPs carrying out the Will of the People? I sincerely hope it's not because you want no deal and wish to ignore the electorate's wishes?
Er sorry, where did you pluck that nonsense from ?

There was no such election pledges, vote for a specific party for no deal wasn’t on any cards.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35978509)
Course you can, You would be wrong however

We elect MP’s based on them acting in the best interests of their constituents not to blindly follow their constituents instructions.

The sovereignty of parliament it’s a wonderful thing
No I’m not wrong, however actually.

They were elected to follow our instructions, we voted to leave the EU. Democracy is a wonderful thing, pity we have treacherous MPs not carrying out the will of the people, that will cause lasting damage to future Democratic processes because the electorate is currently being shafted.

jfman 09-01-2019 09:24
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35978525)
I fully understand that point. But collectively, and constitutionally, they have a higher duty to deliver the Brexit instruction.

I do accept that there has to be scope within that duty to mitigate a bad outcome. But the way that some of those wreckers are going about that is designed to defeat Brexit rather than improve the shambolic deal the TM has negotiated.
They have no such higher duty. To assert so is simply a myth.

Damien 09-01-2019 09:26
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35978525)
I fully understand that point. But collectively, and constitutionally, they have a higher duty to deliver the Brexit instruction.

I do accept that there has to be scope within that duty to mitigate a bad outcome. But the way that some of those wreckers are going about that is designed to defeat Brexit rather than improve the shambolic deal the TM has negotiated.
Well yeah, certainly some of them just want to disrupt it by any means possible.

ianch99 09-01-2019 09:30
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35978532)
They have no such higher duty. To assert so is simply a myth.
Their duty is to safeguard the integrity & prosperity of this country and its citizens. Anything, and I mean anything, that compromises this duty can and should be challenged.

The comedy gold in all of this is the "take back control" and "sovereignty" babbling of the Leave campaign. I mean here is it folks: Parliament taking back control and asserting its sovereignty.

Don't you just love it ... :)


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