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mrmistoffelees 30-10-2020 14:16
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36055580)
It's a conundrum, isn't it?
It is indeed, there seems to be a distinct lack of answers though (not from you may i add)

The government is going to have to do one of two things

Let it rip and accept the country may well collapse

or

multiple circuit breakers until a vaccine is available

There's no alternatives that i can see.

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36055556)
We have inconsistent, sensible and not so sensible restrictions.

We also have media that don't know the restrictions... The Sun (amongst others) for example are saying that support bubbles cannot meet inside a private dwelling or in a private garden in areas that are Tier 2 or Tier 3

Chris 30-10-2020 14:17
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055568)
A classic example just coming up there from a journalist in the Scottish press briefing.

At one level serving alcohol is permitted with a substantial meal. Now, any reasonable person would concede the intention isn't to spend 12 hours in a pub with a packet of crisps or a sausage roll.

However here in the UK we will see many people flouting this until they put it in legislation. :rolleyes:
Sad to say but this sort of thing is actually taught and encouraged by journalist training centres (yes, they do exist, and very few hacks won’t have been to one, especially if they started on local or regional press as I did).

British journalism has an enormous narcissistic streak, it is enamoured of its own legends and traditions, and the behaviour of the “press pack” at a news conference is very much one of them. The game in a briefing like this is to catch out the person giving the presentation. If this can be achieved, you have a ready-made political story of incompetence. The Downing Street coronavirus briefings quite early on restricted each hack to one question (normally a follow-up question would be allowed) because they got sick of reporters trying to play “gotcha” rather than engaging with the unfolding crisis itself. Idiots trying to pick holes in the precise difference between a substantial dinner and a pie with 12 pints is just par for the course.

papa smurf 30-10-2020 14:22
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36055584)
Sad to say but this sort of thing is actually taught and encouraged by journalist training centres (yes, they do exist, and very few hacks won’t have been to one, especially if they started on local or regional press as I did).

British journalism has an enormous narcissistic streak, it is enamoured of its own legends and traditions, and the behaviour of the “press pack” at a news conference is very much one of them. The game in a briefing like this is to catch out the person giving the presentation. If this can be achieved, you have a ready-made political story of incompetence. The Downing Street coronavirus briefings quite early on restricted each hack to one question (normally a follow-up question would be allowed) because they got sick of reporters trying to play “gotcha” rather than engaging with the unfolding crisis itself. Idiots trying to pick holes in the precise difference between a substantial dinner and a pie with 12 pints is just par for the course.

A pie and 12 pints is more than enough dinner for me.

Sephiroth 30-10-2020 14:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055586)
A pie and 12 pints is more than enough dinner for me.
Pie, chips and a dram of Swedish whisky is good enough for me.

jfman 30-10-2020 15:42
Re: Coronavirus
 
12 pints in 12 hours, that's slow drinking.

papa smurf 30-10-2020 15:44
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055604)
12 pints in 12 hours, that's slow drinking.
Dinner hour matey.

1andrew1 30-10-2020 16:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36055578)
Then we need to consider how do we ensure that the percentage of the population that aren't adhering to restrictions are 'brought to heel' so to speak. The police service is in no way shape or form able to deal with that.

There's questions around the let it rip argument

a. How do you decide who needs be be shielded ? How far do you take it? Do the carers of those that are for example in nursing homes also need to shield?
b.How do you enforce that those who are required to shield do so?
c. How do we ensure that by allowing the virus to let rip that we don't overload the NHS
d. Would is be reasonable to say that by allowing the virus to burn through we risk civiil unrest due to lack of manpower in emergency services such as those in the police who have to either self isolate, or those that unfortunately die
And for those reasons together with no proven evidence of lasting immunity, governments of all political persuasions have said no.

Julian 30-10-2020 16:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055586)
A pie and 12 pints is more than enough dinner for me.
Lightweight :D

Sephiroth 30-10-2020 16:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36055611)
And for those reasons together with no proven evidence of lasting immunity, governments of all political persuasions have said no.
Indeed. But are the governments right? Theoretical science if fully applied should kill CV off as it loses hosts. However, economics and international politics prevent the science from being properly implemented.

Hence let it rip because medical preparations seems easier to me than hoping lockdowns might work.

mrmistoffelees 30-10-2020 17:08
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36055616)
Indeed. But are the governments right? Theoretical science if fully applied should kill CV off as it loses hosts. However, economics and international politics prevent the science from being properly implemented.

Hence let it rip because medical preparations seems easier to me than hoping lockdowns might work.

Until we have the answers to the conundrum, surely let it rip is not the route to take?

1andrew1 30-10-2020 17:33
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36055616)
Indeed. But are the governments right? Theoretical science if fully applied should kill CV off as it loses hosts. However, economics and international politics prevent the science from being properly implemented.

Hence let it rip because medical preparations seems easier to me than hoping lockdowns might work.
The purpose of lockdowns is to stop the spread of the virus. It's been proved that they work.

Interesting approach in Central Europe:
Quote:
Slovakia prepares to test entire population for coronavirus

Millions of Slovaks will take part in an ambitious experiment aimed at regaining control of the pandemic this weekend as the country sets out to test almost everyone aged over 10 in its 5.4m-strong population for the disease.

Slovakia was one of the most successful countries in the EU in dealing with the first wave, after locking down rapidly in March. But in recent weeks cases have skyrocketed. Some 80 per cent of its 55,091 total infections have come this month and the pressure on its under-resourced health system is intense.
https://www.ft.com/content/96e67b98-...a-eaf8b0d3a4db
Also see: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...261-3/fulltext

Pierre 30-10-2020 17:46
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055568)
A classic example just coming up there from a journalist in the Scottish press briefing.

At one level serving alcohol is permitted with a substantial meal. Now, any reasonable person would concede the intention isn't to spend 12 hours in a pub with a packet of crisps or a sausage roll.

However here in the UK we will see many people flouting this until they put it in legislation. :rolleyes:
Of course you will. I don’t know how old you are but back in the 80’s licencing hours in the U.K. on Sunday you had to close between 3-6 but if you err a pub that served food you could stay open for diners and you could only drink whilst eating.

The amount of cheese sandwiches And chips we used to sell, and yes, it can easily take 3 hrs to eat a sandwich and some chips.

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36055578)
Then we need to consider how do we ensure that the percentage of the population that aren't adhering to restrictions are 'brought to heel' so to speak.
You have to think of a different strategy. We are policed by consent and don’t take kindly to the jackboot of oppression enforcing incoherent legislation.

Hugh 30-10-2020 17:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
"Can you please behave reasonably" ≠ ‘Jackboot of oppression"...

Pierre 30-10-2020 18:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36055629)
"Can you please behave reasonably" ≠ ‘Jackboot of oppression"...
Behave reasonably Whilst adhering to unreasonable, incoherent, inconsistent legislation.

Law is order, and good law is good order.

This on the other hand...................

jfman 30-10-2020 18:18
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36055626)
Of course you will. I don’t know how old you are but back in the 80’s licencing hours in the U.K. on Sunday you had to close between 3-6 but if you err a pub that served food you could stay open for diners and you could only drink whilst eating.

The amount of cheese sandwiches And chips we used to sell, and yes, it can easily take 3 hrs to eat a sandwich and some chips.

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------



You have to think of a different strategy. We are policed by consent and don’t take kindly to the jackboot of oppression enforcing incoherent legislation.
And that’s why we can’t trust the public to exercise good judgement.

If they want to revolt. Let them. Bring the whole corrupt system down while they are at it.


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