re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I didn't say he wasn't entitled to this own view. It's just that it's a 'brave' - in the Yes Minister sense - thing for him to do. Much like Corbyn is entitled to believe in what he has said - doesn't mean it's political wise.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well yes, whether it's politically wise remains to be seen but in any event I much prefer people who behave with conviction* to those who cynically jump from one bandwagon to another according to what they feel suits their own interests best.

* whilst reserving the right to lambast them as appropriate where they're clearly delusional or just plain stupid... ;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Boris gives a well written set of reasons here

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Why is the Johnson thing such a big deal? Given his role in national politics, the reaction seem disproportionate. He has always come across as a bit of clown ... What has Boris got on Cameron ;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yep, but published 7+ hours after I asked.. Any more?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

CF clearly reaches the parts other forums can't reach... :D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Good breakdown of three possible consequences of Brexit. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/70d0bfd8-d...#axzz40tQoBlqs

They do point out the absurdity of the same of the claims people make about free trade deals as if they're symmetrical and easy to set up. They're not.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Really good article, I thought, with the pro & con of various scenarios.

The bit I found most interesting was The challenge that the undecided (in which I include myself) is knowing the complexity and impact of re-negotiating these trade deals, as no one on either side really knows how difficult/beneficial these negotiations will be - Brexit supporters will see to minimise the difficulty of these, whilst the StayInners will exaggerate them, and the truth is, no one knows, as it's never been done on this scale before...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I've an idea - why don't we ask the EU if we can suck it and see? :D

Uncharted waters as I said. No certainties v. the certainty we do have which is more of the same. :shrug:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yeah. I think we'll be able to renegotiate trade deals with this countries but it's the terms we'll get and the time it'll take that is the issue and nobody knows as you say. We won't have to worry about seeking protections for industries that aren't our concern, which is an advantage, but we'll have less clout in terms of out accessible market, which is a disadvantage.

I find it hard to believe there won't be at least a few years of turbulence though as we get seek to get these deals done, get a deal with the EU done and businesses are cautious about investment here whilst those issues are unresolved.

I saw someone mention earlier today that Greenland did a deal with China but it involved one industry, fishing, and it took three years.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

tbh, I had time for Boris as a laughable clown 'not nasty Tory' sort of guy. He's now come out as the worst sort of politician, seeing which way the wind is blowing for his own benefit before deciding which side he's on. I guess the scenario he's hoping for is that the public don't actually do anything stupid like vote 'out'; a disgruntled Tory grassroots will then elect him and punish Osborne/Cameron, and he still have EU membership.

Be nice if the actual issues like free trade were debated; however it's just going be negative from both sides, and about personalities/back stabbing/which way the media barons decide how we should vote. I despair of our democracy sometimes.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I have just seen the intro for Channel 4 news and they had a clip of someone asking a couple of women from Liverpool (I think) and asking "What do you think of Boris Johnson's decision"?

"Boris who" they replied? :)

Also, when there was a vote on bombing Syria, the media were lampooning Corbyn for his cabinet's disunity. It is interesting that when Dave's cabinet does the same thing, this presents no problem ..

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

And if he didn't allow them the freedom to dissent, he would have been called a dictator...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Also he wouldn't have been able to contain his party and any spilt would have been far worse. I think the difference between Cameron and Corbyn is that Cameron has proved himself to the extent that no one can really call into question his authority within the party. He has largely kept infighting to a minimum, managed to impose the whip where needed, and has only called for a free vote on issues of long-standing disagreement within the party such as gay marriage and Europe.

Corbyn finds his party in a permanent state of dissent and has been bounced into free votes though lack of authority. The Conservative party, even with the spilt, is largely behind Cameron. Most of the PLP hate Corbyn.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I seriously think that if Cameron, had got a better deal. Then we would not be discussing this matter.

In or out of the EU, l still feel that we will still trade abroad. Its utter nonsense to suggest major companies will move abroad.

hey move aboard as it is cheaper to recruit staff. Now, isn't that what Britain is doing at the moment.

IF, we are out, then we can control our own borders. and we wont need to have Brussels, telling US, what we can or cannot do in our OWN country