Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

"take (something) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it"

You are taking that signal, decrypting it without permission on an illegal basis and not intending to pay for it, its theft, no matter what way you look at it.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Nope, it aint.

As you said, your decrypting the signal, your not taking it anywhere, the signal is already going into the house, the only illegal thing your doing is decrypting the signals, which is not theft, no matter what way you look at it.

How can you steal a signal to which is already being transmitted to the house/any box you may have? you cant.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Yes it is.

Illegally, its not yours. Your stealing the signal to decrpyt it.


And? You dont have to take it anywhere to steal it.

And, its still theft or stealing if you are decrypting that signal to watch TV services without inteding to pay for them.

You mean stealing cable? You do not have permission to view it so therefor have to steal it.

It is theft, your taking and tampering with something that is not yours without intending to pay for it. Just because a signal is going in or not doesnt make no difference.

You can, by decrypting it illegally without inteding to pay, there for you are stealing a service from a cable company.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

You are not taking anything physical, you are stealing a service. The OED does not define stealing as taking something physical and Merriam Webster specifically includes services in it's definition of theft.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Does it really matter whether you call it 'theft' or 'unauthorised use of services' - the principle is the same, whatever label you put on it ?

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Thank you homealone, that was the point I was originally making, at the end of the day you would be taking without permission something your not entitled to.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

That's the problem here. There are those here who defend this thieving to the hilt. Wonder if there the same lot that think the criminal should not be punished as hard as the victim.

Stealing cable service is just that stealing and for that you should be up before the judge. NO If's NO But's.

Makes me wonder WHY some here defend this stealing so hard ?.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

The OED and Merriam Webster mean nothing when it comes to UK law though, and although TraxData is making his point badly, he is right.

The theft act is VERY clear on the definition of theft.

The key part is bolded. When you use an illegal box you are not permanently depriving VM of any property, therefore it isn't theft. It's the same as why copyright infringement isn't theft (no matter how much the riaa will tell you otherwise) as long as you're not physically depriving someone of something then under UK law it's not theft.

That's not to say it's not illegal (is it) it's just covered by different laws.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

True..

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Sections 125 and 126 of the Communications Act 2003 (dishonestly obtaining an electronic communications service).

I think that might point you in the right direction especially as TV/Radio/Internet is covered under that act.

Kymmy

PS...full text for the act is at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003..._20030021_en_1

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

Actually my mistake... The previous act covers Internet only and not broadcast services, which instead is covered under Fraudulent reception of transmissions which is sections 297, 298 and 299 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)

Kymmy

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Indeed, and that's where you can see why there's a huge difference between it being theft or not. Theft carries a maximum sentence of 7 years, Fraudulent reception of transmissions carries a maximum fine of £5,000.

I doubt as many people would use these boxes if they knew that if they got caught they'd possibly be doing hard time rather than just having to pay a fine that will be nowhere near as high as the maximum.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Interesting discussion

Does this mean that if NTL intercept my communications with web sites and use them for their own benefit (ie providing them to a third party at an agreed price so that adverts can be targetted at me) that this can be classed as unapproved interception of communication, and can, under the same argument, be considered theft? (or "fraudulent reception of transmissions")

just a thought

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Freeview is free once you've paid for the equipment.
You need to buy a licence whatever service you subscribe to ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

They are depriving Virgin of income - which could be construed as theft (at least in my eyes)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Does that mean if you dishonestly appropriate someone else's property, but you have the intention of giving it back (say in 25 years), it's not theft?