Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Jerrek, I mean this with the greatest of respect, can you not realise that other countries don't always do things the American way? We have our own ways of doing things!

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I heard a very good explaination of this on the radio some months ago.

If you are brought up to believe your way is the best way, you find it difficult to understand why other people don't also see how wonderful your way is.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Not in the slightest, we have one of the worst national anthems in the world, a truly terrible piece of music.

At least Ode to Joy is a decent piece of music.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Not so sure about being brought up to dislike it, IMHO its more a case that we've allowed ourselves to fall foul of a few things and to get side tracked about it.

For a couple of generations after WW2 and the Nazis, many Germans felt they had to be ashamed to be German because of what some of their countrymen did. Too many liberals have shouted and been heeded that we also should be ashamed of being British because we once had an empire and did some pretty horrible things.

People didn't want to offend the waves of Asian and Jamaican immigrants entering the country despite the fact that many of them were already more patriotic than some of the natives.

A lot of the issues with unionism in the 70's were wrongly put across as nationalism, in that the unions where fighting for a better Britain when really what they were fighting for was power and high profiles for their leadership. That their membership almost benefited as well was IMO a bit of a bonus on the side.

The History syllabus in schools changed a lot during the last 30 years, kids were no longer taught about Great Britain and its peoples achievements.

Brits generally are more reserved than our cousin's across the pond and I think that also has had its impact with parents declining to sing the countries praises and the only influence's about being negative, many have forgotten what being British is all about.

All great civilisations have peaks and troughs ours has been at a low for some time now perhaps thanks to it being politically correct again to fly the flag we can start to climb again.

To answer the thread title, yes!!! bloody good idea it should be compulsory for all as they come of age. No one should automatically become a citizen just because they were born and raised in ignorance in any country, why should people be allowed to vote on the future governance of a country when they don't know about both the good and bad of its history, its traditions, its values and its diverse peoples.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

i agree whilst i 'love' this country and would protect it, i know it has its faults no country is perfect and the US portrays itself as an 'almighty peacekeeping we are the best country in the world' i would call that arrogance.

some people will say its the american way.........

same here......... :eek:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

If you can't find a need, then you wouldn't understand. It is a personal thing. You may not like it or approve, but respect the rights of others to be proud AND express it. I will likewise respect your right to hide your national identity.

I was talking in general, and I believe it was quite clear. There are always exceptions, and those tend to come around a couple of times a century. So my question still stands. You haven't answered it.

Perhaps to a bacterium, but the human mind has the ability to form memories and associations. That is why something can have more meaning to others than to one person. And to me, a flag, song, and kiss can carry a whole lot more than just the act.


And Xaccers, you STILL haven't answered my two questions. How is singing and reciting a pledge brainwashing?


So Russ, you're saying that it is only Americans that do these things? Ridiculous. Its been going on for centuries. It is done in Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, China, Malaysia, South Africa, etc. It is hardly an American thing, but if you want to disagree, go ahead. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't believe everything I hear on the radio, and I do not believe this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

This isn't about the best way. It is about expressing who you are. It is a personal opinion. It just so happens Americans and Canadians and the rest of the world except Europe seems to be more proud of their national heritage than you guys, and Europeans seem to have a major fit with that. For some reason.


Join the club. So were teh Spanish, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Americans, Canadians, etc. Everyone has some skeletons in their closet. It doesn't, however, change the fact that you may have made significant achievements.

I couldn't give a damn if they feel offended. They can leave.

That is a shame. Its quite different here. We are taught of our achievements, AND, we are taught about the achievements of other nations, including Great Britain.

But if France is doing it, it is OK.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

ummm.... thats a very tolerant attitude you have - imagine that sort of attitude on a national level, and you might get some idea why north america seems to put alot of peoples backs up...... .

that could be your problem right there - if all you learn is how great your cournty is/was, that will naturally lead to a national feeling of arrogance.... ALOT more can be learned of your nations failings....and how to make sure they dont happen again...

ummm, France is a peacekeeping nation - you seen them wage wars on anyone for the alleged benefit of the planet?, nope. see, cos unlike the USA thay DONT see themselves as the best country in the world, and have no massive chip on their shoulder that needs feeding all the time....

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

That attitude is directed at immigrants who "might be offended," not my fellow citizens.

We learn both. But people ignore history, hence liberals exist. And if you're going to tell me not to teach my country the greatness of their own country, then I'm not going to listen to you and just feel sorry. I do have a sense of national pride.

Have you heard of Ivory Coast?

And if France is such a great peacekeeping nation, why the hell is the United States keeping peace in Eastern Europe? Why did you need the United States to fix two world wars, and recently Serbia?

You've apparently never been to France.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

Lets see, WW1, WW2, Falklands, Suez to name more than a couple of situations where America has turned it's back on it's allies.

If some nations have the ability to help the world then it would be dishonourable not too. This does not mean ignoring problems at home, infact, if you think about it, america could ask other countries to help with it's own problems. I know it's easy for you to forget, but America is part of the world, so included in the better world that could be built.

*JOY* I'm a bacterium now.

Read my post about repeating mantras :rolleyes:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

i thought north amarica was 'the land of the free' - free of bigotry, oppression and the like?.... so is it a case of we're all equal, but, we're more equal than immigrants?...... all the more ironic as you were an immigrant yourself wernt you??

i am quietly proud of my country - like others in this thread - but i dont feel the need to scream it at the top of my lungs tho - british understatement perhaps?
i would however deliberatly keep quiet if my country was the most hated on the planet, whilst i figured out why that was.....


ahhhhh..... THAT old chestnut. the US of A saving us out of the goodness of their own heart....and nothing, oddly enough, to do with realising that they would be deep in the mire if europe fell.
i love how yanks extol how the US is in so many countries keeping the peace - yet neglect to mention the US had either invaded that country or in some way contributed to its political collapse in the first place!!


ummmm...only lived there for 7 years......

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

You missed out:

"God grant that Marshall Wade
"With thy almighty aid,
"Victory bring.
"May he sedition hush,
"And like a torrent rush
"Rebellious Scots to crush!
"God save the Queen"

(Just to annoy all the Scots :D )

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

If you don't, people may consider you to be "unpatriotic"

There again (and I'm trying to remember where I read this) I recall a story of a British Teacher (female IIRC) who went to teach in the who was told off by the Headmaster for not standing up during the Pledge of Alliegence or the singing of the Star Spangled Banner.

Her response was (quite reasonably) that it wasn't her Pledge or Anthem and, as such, she didn't feel they should stand up for it, however the Headmaster insisted.

So the next day after the singing, she brought out a cassette recorder and stood to attention whilst "God Save the Queen" played.

After that she was excused attending assemblies!

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

There are *ALL SORTS* of things I could say here...!!! :rofl: :rofl:

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

You've dodged the question. I'm not assuming America is the only country to do that. I'm asking why it is Americans always seem to assume everything is done around the world the same way as it's done in the States.

Re: US style british citizenship a positive step ?
 

I do not see how this relates to me telling immigrants to leave if they get offended in my country by my customs.

I didn't say that, did I? You need to really learn to read.

Oh damn, and I sensed their superiority complex within 5 minutes of going through customs.



Anyways, this discussion is going nowhere. My point is, I am proud of who I am, and I do not feel a need to hide it or stick it under a rock. I sing my anthem with pride, and my kids will sing it each day in school. I have pledged allegiance, and my kids will do the same thing. (And don't come back with the brainwashing crap, because you still haven't explained how it is considered brainwashing.) You may disagree, but I doubt the entire of the UK would feel the need to hide their heritage. I will respect your right to hide it, if you respect my right NOT to hide it. :)