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-   -   Panic at the Pumps (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710400)

1andrew1 25-09-2021 10:26
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36094436)
We have a perfect storm with multitudes of issues, however,
Britain leaving the EU exacerbates the issue as we were unable to use overseas labour to fill the gaps that we need something that other countries are able to do.

https://trans.info/en/eu-report-reve...ruckers-226234

Even if we can get 50,000 drivers through their tests it’s not the end of the problem. There’s individual load requirements to be considered.

Boris made a sensible decision yesterday with the visa change. This will hopefully buy us the time we need.

Imho This isn’t a pay issue, it’s a conditions issue. Conditions aren’t about to change due to the nature of the role.
Agree that we need to make the role more attractive - as I said, this will make it more attractive to women too thus increasing the potential pool of talent to recruit from.

Carth 25-09-2021 10:34
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
It's a (poor) decision brought about by big businesses moaning and the media having a field day blowing stuff out of proportion . . again.

5000 drivers won't turn up overnight, but now 'they've' got what they wanted, you watch the problem disappear in a day or two.

Anyone who thinks foreign workers are the answer to all our problems are quite possibly the very people who got us into this mess in the first place.

Mick 25-09-2021 10:35
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36094436)
We have a perfect storm with multitudes of issues, however,
Britain leaving the EU exacerbates the issue as we were unable to use overseas labour to fill the gaps that we need something that other countries are able to do.

https://trans.info/en/eu-report-reve...ruckers-226234

Even if we can get 50,000 drivers through their tests it’s not the end of the problem. There’s individual load requirements to be considered.

Boris made a sensible decision yesterday with the visa change. This will hopefully buy us the time we need.

Imho This isn’t a pay issue, it’s a conditions issue. Conditions aren’t about to change due to the nature of the role.
It is not leaving the EU issue, why pumps across the country are running dry. It’s a media snow balling a minor issue into panic frenzy. I know you Remainers like to bang this drum all too often. But a HGV driver problem, is Europe wide issue and crucially, it is a pay issue.

mrmistoffelees 25-09-2021 10:36
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36094445)
It's a (poor) decision brought about by big businesses moaning and the media having a field day blowing stuff out of proportion . . again.

5000 drivers won't turn up overnight, but now 'they've' got what they wanted, you watch the problem disappear in a day or two.

Anyone who thinks foreign workers are the answer to all our problems are quite possibly the very people who got us into this mess in the first place.
Welcome to capitalism. Foreign workers will always be needed in some capacity.

1andrew1 25-09-2021 10:36
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36094445)
It's a (poor) decision brought about by big businesses moaning and the media having a field day blowing stuff out of proportion . . again.

5000 drivers won't turn up overnight, but now 'they've' got what they wanted, you watch the problem disappear in a day or two.

Anyone who thinks foreign workers are the answer to all our problems are quite possibly the very people who got us into this mess in the first place.
No one is promoting that except as a temporary fix but any country may need to import labour given the size of its population relative to its available working population. Hence I assume Windrush. What got us here in the first place on HGV drivers is a witch's brew of many things.

mrmistoffelees 25-09-2021 10:40
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36094447)
It is not leaving the EU issue, why pumps across the country are running dry. It’s a media snow balling a minor issue into panic frenzy. I know you Remainers like to bang this drum all too often. But a HGV driver problem, is Europe wide issue and crucially, it is a pay issue.
I’m not sure why you needed to go down the ‘you remainers’ route when I said quite clearly that leaving the EU enhances the issue and is not necessarily the cause. At an average salary of 32k per year it’s not a pay issue it’s a being away from home five days a week and sleeping in a cab and having little to no facilities issue.

1andrew1 25-09-2021 10:48
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36094447)
...and crucially, it is a pay issue.
An experienced driver can get £40k, a less experienced one £32k. It's not tech salaries but it's not bad.

Carth 25-09-2021 10:49
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36094449)
No one is promoting that except as a temporary fix but any country may need to import labour given the size of its population relative to its available working population. Hence I assume Windrush. What got us here in the first place on HGV drivers is a witch's brew of many things.
We (the UK) have a large enough 'working population', it's just a pity that some of them do very nicely on benefits and handouts and don't 'need' to work.


edit: The average salary in the UK is £29,600 per year (or £1,950 per month).
https://uk.jobted.com/salary

I know a great many who are on £10k less than that doing full time shift work, averages are just more statistical nonsense

mrmistoffelees 25-09-2021 10:51
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36094454)
An experienced driver can get £40k, a less experienced one £32k. It's not tech salaries but it's not bad.
Tech salaries outside of major cities are atrocious.

1andrew1 25-09-2021 10:56
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36094455)

edit: The average salary in the UK is £29,600 per year (or £1,950 per month).
https://uk.jobted.com/salary

I know a great many who are on £10k less than that doing full time shift work, averages are just more statistical nonsense
Why don't they become HGV drivers then?

mrmistoffelees 25-09-2021 10:58
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36094455)
We (the UK) have a large enough 'working population', it's just a pity that some of them do very nicely on benefits and handouts and don't 'need' to work.


edit: The average salary in the UK is £29,600 per year (or £1,950 per month).
https://uk.jobted.com/salary

I know a great many who are on £10k less than that doing full time shift work, averages are just more statistical nonsense
Have the government force them into the careers that we have a shortage of. Simple innit, so simple in fact that I wonder why it hasn’t been done.

19.6k full time shift work doing what ? If it’s packing sandwiches in boxes in loftus thats not a bad salary for an easy job in a low cost of living area.

As with everything perspective is required.

Mick 25-09-2021 11:02
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36094450)
I’m not sure why you needed to go down the ‘you remainers’ route when I said quite clearly that leaving the EU enhances the issue and is not necessarily the cause. At an average salary of 32k per year it’s not a pay issue it’s a being away from home five days a week and sleeping in a cab and having little to no facilities issue.
Because you’re circumventing the problem of HGV shortages, Europe wide. Germany 65-85K HGV vacancies unfilled. Poland 124,000 driver shortages, pretty sure it was only the UK that left the corrupted EU. But I guess you got to cling to some hope that Brexit is the route cause, when it most certainly isn’t.

It’s almost as if, and I’m not necessarily pointing finger at you doing this, but it’s like all these so called shortages bullshit, “some” hardline Remainers, want something so destructive, to prove to us Brexiteers, we got it momentously and catastrophically wrong, that so much so, we’d change our minds or admit defeat. I say NEVER. I have no regrets voting to leave and I’d do so again. It’s called democracy.

nomadking 25-09-2021 11:03
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
More attractive than what exactly? Where are the mass of higher paid jobs? If indeed there are mythical higher paid jobs they are doing instead, then the salary for those would just increase, resulting in the same problem coming around again.

People simply don't want the lifestyle of spending the week away from home. No amount of money is going to get around that.

Carth 25-09-2021 11:12
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36094458)
Why don't they become HGV drivers then?
Same reason they don't become lumberjacks, opera singers, F1 drivers, and script writers I suppose :p:

Mick 25-09-2021 11:14
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
1 Attachment(s)
Oh look… who knew…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1632564771


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