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-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Return of the cyclist scourge (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709036)

Hugh 18-05-2020 18:52
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36035592)
I got quite used to the cyclists' traffic lights in the Netherlands. And the riders abided by them. N.B. don't go driving near any form of junction in the Netherlands if you have a weak heart. Cyclists often have priority and don't even bother looking to see what's coming.
Try crossing the main roads in Saigon - the traffic doesn’t stop, it just flows around you, and if you stop, you’ll get hit...

Sephiroth 18-05-2020 19:52
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36035609)
You are correct but with our challenges on road space and land ownership, expanding roads to include dedicated cycle lanes is a big ask.

What is needed is for Government (Local probably) to stand up to the Luddites and make brave road/urban space planning changes, like they made in Ghent:



However, at the end of the day, some people will just moan at anything. I mean, the Daily Mail built a whole comments section around this principle!
Er - surely the Luddites were opposed to new technology. Going back to bicycles fits the Luddite agenda!

Kursk 18-05-2020 23:39
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36035609)
You are correct but with our challenges on road space and land ownership, expanding roads to include dedicated cycle lanes is a big ask.

What is needed is for Government (Local probably) to stand up to the Luddites and make brave road/urban space planning changes, like they made in Ghent
Agreed. I recall suggesting on this forum some time ago that a radical re-think is needed. Perhaps a network of some B roads dedicated to cycle/pedestrian use. No solutions are easy but now is the time before gridlock and/or 20mph limits everywhere. No motorist wants that.

I like the Ghent approach; birthplace too of Sir Bradley Wiggins :)

Sephiroth 18-05-2020 23:44
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 36035634)
Agreed. I recall suggesting on this forum some time ago that a radical re-think is needed. Perhaps a network of some B roads dedicated to cycle/pedestrian use. No solutions are easy but now is the time before gridlock and/or 20mph limits everywhere. No motorist wants that.

I like the Ghent approach; birthplace too of Sir Bradley Wiggins :)
How would that work? All the B-roads round here have houses on them and thus people with cars, deliveries etc.

Kursk 19-05-2020 09:20
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36035635)
How would that work? All the B-roads round here have houses on them and thus people with cars, deliveries etc.
We’ve designed our lives and living spaces around the car. Perhaps start by making some more of these roads not through routes for motor vehicles?

This is your thread; you are unhappy with the current situation, so what do you think could work?

Sephiroth 19-05-2020 09:27
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 36035648)
We’ve designed our lives and living spaces around the car. Perhaps start by making some more of these roads not through routes for motor vehicles?

This is your thread; you are unhappy with the current situation, so what do you think could work?
I suspect that you and I are at opposite ends of thinking on this matter.

We cannot or rather will not regress to non-motor transport methods particularly in rural areas where it's mile to the local supermarket.

Therefore, I don't think that anything other than what we have now will work better than it does now. Please remember that I started this thread as a complaint against die-hard cyclists clogging the roads (in my area) with some glee to the annoyance of car drivers going about their daily business.

My purpose in the thread was not to address commuting although discussion has morphed to some extent.

tweetiepooh 19-05-2020 09:39
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Doesn't really matter what method of transport you are controlling roads are shared space and you need to be mindful to conditions and other road users. Just as motorists should give space to cyclists, allow for wobble or moving away from "obstructions" that would less affect cars and so on, cyclists need to allow for cars trying to get past and so on.
It should also be noted that roads are not race tracks. This applies to cyclists as well as motorists.

Kursk 19-05-2020 09:39
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36035649)
I suspect that you and I are at opposite ends of thinking on this matter.

We cannot or rather will not regress to non-motor transport methods particularly in rural areas where it's mile to the local supermarket.

Therefore, I don't think that anything other than what we have now will work better than it does now. Please remember that I started this thread as a complaint against die-hard cyclists clogging the roads (in my area) with some glee to the annoyance of car drivers going about their daily business.

My purpose in the thread was not to address commuting although discussion has morphed to some extent.
Fair point. I don’t intend arguing this through to a standstill as has become the norm in Current Affairs.

But with all the brain power exhibited here, seldom are solutions to problems suggested; usually, there’s a kind of one-upmanship posting which just goes around in circles and cycling is regularly, ahem, re-cycled.

If anyone says that’s what forums are all about, to me it’s just bickering for the sake of it.

Sephiroth 19-05-2020 09:43
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 36035652)
Fair point. I don’t intend arguing this through to a standstill as has become the norm in Current Affairs.

But with all the brain power exhibited here, seldom are solutions to problems suggested; usually, there’s a kind of one-upmanship posting which just goes around in circles and cycling is regularly, ahem, re-cycled.

If anyone says that’s what forums are all about, to me it’s just bickering for the sake of it.
Spot on there. I started this thread with a glint in my eye!

Kursk 19-05-2020 09:55
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36035653)
Spot on there. I started this thread with a glint in my eye!
Fair enough Seph :D

Hugh 19-05-2020 10:11
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Difference between a debate and an argument - debate is usually about what’s right, argument is usually about who’s right.

Debates are usually about exchanges of information, hoping that this information may enlighten/sway others’ viewpoints - arguments are usually just trying to shout someone down.

Kursk 19-05-2020 10:26
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36035655)
Difference between a debate and an argument - debate is usually about what’s right, argument is usually about who’s right.

Debates are usually about exchanges of information, hoping that this information may enlighten/sway others’ viewpoints- arguments are usually just trying to shout someone down.
Very true and a mixture of each can be productive but when the shouting takes prevalence, the point of the discussion can be all but forgotten.

Btw, not referring to this thread or any particular contributor but attitudes in general seem aggressively adversarial for the sake of it. It’s as if a debate is going nowhere before it starts because you can see its shape as the sides line up.

Sephiroth 19-05-2020 10:39
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 36035659)
Very true and a mixture of each can be productive but when the shouting takes prevalence, the point of the discussion can be all but forgotten.

Btw, not referring to this thread or any particular contributor but attitudes in general seem aggressively adversarial for the sake of it. It’s as if a debate is going nowhere before it starts because you can see its shape as the sides line up.
Interesting point. My take on this is that many, if not most, threads polarise into the opposing views of those who were Remainers and those who were Leavers. Pretty much on any topic.

Kursk 19-05-2020 14:57
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36035664)
Interesting point. My take on this is that many, if not most, threads polarise into the opposing views of those who were Remainers and those who were Leavers. Pretty much on any topic.
It does seem that way. I suppose time will heal the rift. Eventually :sleep:

Sephiroth 19-05-2020 16:24
Re: Return of the cyclist scourge
 
... and just on a positive note, I really like to see the family out on their bikes.


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