Cable Forum - Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

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- - Illegal migrants crossing the Channel. (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33707237)

mrmistoffelees

02-01-2019 13:35

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35977601)

I think an accord would be reached. It would be petty not to continue accepting if we've hitherto been fine with it. I wish the UK did have a National ID card that you could use to travel with the EU and on domestic flights e.t.c. Even better if it were your driving licence, NHS and NI numbers were on it too.

BTW Why did your wife get "Permanent Right To Reside"? Was it just excellent foresight cos I would have thought she was have no need for it being an EU citizen?

Some might say that the Mrs May and her hardcore 'brexiteers' are guilty of just this behaviour. As we get deeper into the potential mire I suggest 'petty' and 'tit for tat' will become common place.

Taf	02-01-2019 15:27

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35977601)

BTW Why did your wife get "Permanent Right To Reside"? Was it just excellent foresight cos I would have thought she was have no need for it being an EU citizen?

She applied as we walked into the UK. All we had to do was show ID and our marriage papers. A nice lady walked us through it, and a week later the paperwork arrived in the mail. It all used to be so simple.

As it is with thousands of EU migrants and their families who are already here. A few clicks on a website, and they have the right to stay forever. Not exactly what many Leavers expected.

Sephiroth

02-01-2019 15:43

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977570)

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/wh...-applicants_en

This link on the same website cites “family considerations “ as part of the criteria. Considering we leave the EU on 29th March what rules apply then?

In my book, back to France with them.

Anyway, afaIk, we have passed EU Law into UK law at the Brexit point.

Damien

02-01-2019 15:48

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35977610)

What I mean though is if that was standard then? I wouldn't have thought it was needed since her French passport/ID should have been enough for any rights required to live and work in the UK?

The reason for this registration system is because most EU citizens are here purely on the basis of being a EU citizen without any formal right to remain, even those married to Brits.

Quote:

As it is with thousands of EU migrants and their families who are already here. A few clicks on a website, and they have the right to stay forever. Not exactly what many Leavers expected

Probably not what some of them expected but it's not a surprise because there isn't any realistic alternative without causing huge problems. Imagine the disruption if, come March, every EU citizen lost their right to work and live here. Chaos.

jfman

02-01-2019 16:04

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35977611)

In my book, back to France with them.

Anyway, afaIk, we have passed EU Law into UK law at the Brexit point.

That might affect our obligations but not France’s.

I understand it’s your preference to send them elsewhere but I doubt it’s legal, in our laws and in international law.

nomadking

02-01-2019 16:08

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Before the Maastricht Treaty, the concept of EU citizenship wasn't there. Before then there was only a freedom of movement for workers, and not just anybody from an EU country.

jfman

02-01-2019 16:16

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35977616)

Before the Maastricht Treaty, the concept of EU citizenship wasn't there. Before then there was only a freedom of movement for workers, and not just anybody from an EU country.

Those in the boats aren’t from the EU.

nomadking

02-01-2019 16:23

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977617)

Those in the boats aren’t from the EU.

I was referring to the situation with Taf's wife in 1986.

Damien

02-01-2019 16:28

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35977616)

Before the Maastricht Treaty, the concept of EU citizenship wasn't there. Before then there was only a freedom of movement for workers, and not just anybody from an EU country.

Ah yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citize...European_Union

Quote:

EU citizenship was first introduced by the Maastricht Treaty, and was extended by the Treaty of Amsterdam.[11] Prior to the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, the European Communities treaties provided guarantees for the free movement of economically active persons, but not, generally, for others. The 1951 Treaty of Paris[12] establishing the European Coal and Steel Community established a right to free movement for workers in these industries and the 1957 Treaty of Rome[13] provided for the free movement of workers and services.

Although I wonder if it wasn't really enforced? I've known EU citizens here which predate 1992 but I guess they were working and/or it didn't really matter. The next part of the wiki suggests the right in effect existed before then unofficially.

mrmistoffelees

02-01-2019 20:30

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977614)

That might affect our obligations but not France’s.

I understand it’s your preference to send them elsewhere but I doubt it’s legal, in our laws and in international law.

It's not legal, IIRC it's called self-determination and made law by the ECHR

jfman

05-01-2019 14:15

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/05/e...ntl/index.html

The numbers of illegal migrants crossing into the EU has fallen in 2018.

Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq being the main countries people are coming from. Quelle surprise.

Sephiroth

05-01-2019 14:26

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977910)

Doesn't alter the fact that if they try to reach the UK from France, they are illegal migrants and need to be returned to France.

jfman

05-01-2019 14:59

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

It does put the numbers into perspective.

Sephiroth

05-01-2019 15:08

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977913)

It does put the numbers into perspective.

Into what perspective? Allow them in then the perspective changes potentially to floodgate proportions.

Illegal migrants of this type must be returned to their point of departure in Europe - having rendered any necessary humanitarian assistance (other than asylum).

nomadking

05-01-2019 15:20

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977910)

Countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan are big places, and as such they will have travelled safely for hundreds of miles within those countries just to get to the border. The large areas also mean that there is plenty of space to find somewhere safe. Even Syria has safe areas, ie the bits under Syrian government control.

If they really have all been counted then they must have registered at that entry point?

Quote:

Meanwhile, the number of arrivals in Spain via the western Mediterranean route, leaving from Morocco, doubled last year for the second year in a row to 57,000.
Most of the migrants on this route originated from countries in sub-Saharan Africa, although the number of Moroccans has increased in recent months, Frontex said. Many also came from Guinea, Mali and Algeria.

Quote:

The International Organization for Migration (IOM) puts the number of migrants and refugees arriving in Europe last year at close to 142,000, most of whom made the perilous crossing of the Mediterranean Sea.

So only 8,000 came overland?

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