Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

I thought that was done by the African Resistance Movement? It's not one of the bombings that they tried Mandela under certainly as they could only charge him with sabotage.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

and?? the IRA have a good reason for war seeing as their country has been occupied for hundreds of years. The Afgan Taliban are living in an occupied country. Saddam was defending a country he still run at the start of the second war its all about perspective. I have no doubt in my mind that Mandela was responsible where by deed or order of the death of civilians that to me makes him a terrorist

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Yes but the ANC and Mandela are not synonymous. That's why his release and the way he tired, and mostly succeeded, in stopping the ANC from it's military campaign is one the reasons he is lauded.

Again though what do you think the ANC should have done after they were banned and forcefully stopped from protesting?

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

he was head of the armed wing of the ANC.

Well Apartheid was the governing body they run the country rightly or wrongly is irrelevant. Any and all armed assaults on it were acts of terrorism.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

And a fine example of how things would most likely have turned out had Mandela not held them back

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

In most people's opinion. It's why he won the nobel peace prize, is admired around the world, and will have a massive state funeral later this month. It's credited it him by De Klerk who was the head of the Government at the time.

The rest of the world wasn't coming to help. People were being killed and their protests were getting banned and you condemn them for fighting back, you accuse Mandela, whose turn to violence didn't go as far as to call for civilians targets, of being a terrorist. How could they ratchet up pressure when they were a banned group? How they could fight back if they are not allowed to use violence? What were the black population of South Africa to do when their protests were met with violence, they weren't allowed to vote or speak out?

Yet somehow it is they who are the bad guy....

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Good point sir, and by "bizarre coincidence" look who was heavily involved in the drafting of the inauguration speech delivered on the day the Act was put into effect.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Yep.. my mistake as I was mainly going from memory...

One thing though to note is that Mandela has admitted to still being in a position on control of the MK whilst in prison which includes the time of the church st and Durban mall bombings. Although he was never charged with civilian bombings it doesn't mean that he wasn't guilty of being involved with later campaigns which killed many innocent people.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

I think the rest of the world remembers Mandela's bombing campaign but judge it to have been acceptable in the context of the time in the same way no one really calls the French Resistance terrorists. I think if a people are being systematically oppressed, denied the right to vote, and even killed then it's hard to condemn them for taking up armed resistance in retaliation, especially in the case of Mandela who didn't target civilians. Finally I would point out, again, that his true legacy was after he was released from jail when he reigned in the ANC, helped broker the final peace deal with the underacknowledged F. W. de Klerk, became the first black President of South Africa, and didn't seek retribution or revenge on the white minority who had oppressed him for so long because he forgive them that.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Now that i didn't know ,and i believe Smuts had the same attitude towards blacks that Churchill had towards Indians .

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

the main difference is the Nazi's were an occupying force not the regular leaders of the country

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Does it matter if the people oppressing you are from abroad or at home? Same thing as far as you're concerned surely. If you were being denied the right to vote, you were on the wrong end of such brutal inequality, and when you spoke out you were banned? Others even killed? What would you do? :shrug:

Hugh's previous post contained this table:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/12/29.jpg

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

I would be a terrorist but I would not pretend not to be one

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Regarding the last table please remember as I've stated a few times in this thread that not everything was black and white especially in terms of class and skin color.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

it brings up some interesting philosophical arguments over killings - e.g. whether killings are correct when sanctioned by 'the state' or just dreamed up by the individual

it reminded me of this book


I used to carry it about with me as I hitch-hiked around west Australia and up into south east Asia wearing a checked shirt and smoking a corn cob pipe - you'd find me loafing about on a fence post somewhere waiting for a ride to god knows where and pretending I was all deep and knew what I was doing (Christ what a ****** :mad:)



I only actually read it a couple of years ago - I just used to think it was a cool and trendy prop