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-   -   Hillsborough Report (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33689675)

TheDaddy 13-09-2012 02:04
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35473786)
Doubt it will be accepted. It's interesting they went with 'Cops smeared' the fans. This is true of course but my initial reading of those headlines furthers my suspicions that their tactic is going to be that the police fed all this information and they were just naive pawns....
Yep that's my opinion to, they were up to their necks in it and I doubt anyone's foolish enough to think otherwise, chickens have well and truly come home to roost for Rupert over the last few months and it just goes to show if you keep fighting the truth will get out in the end.

Vieil Homme 13-09-2012 12:40
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Charges Likely Over Hillsborough Cover-Up which is the best way forward but will they bring charges against the high ranking officers of today who are still in the force,,,ooops sorry service. Link

martyh 13-09-2012 12:45
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vieil Homme (Post 35473939)
Charges Likely Over Hillsborough Cover-Up which is the best way forward but will they bring charges against the high ranking officer who are still in the force,,,ooops sorry service. Link
and so there should be ,i would think that some of the "beat cops" involved have risen through the ranks and are now in positions of power

Damien 13-09-2012 13:04
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...l-8134410.html


Quote:
These days, we hear a consistent refrain from citizens complaining about the tyranny of health and safety regulations or moaning about the overweening power of the nanny state. Well, recall the circumstances around Hillsborough in April 1989, and see what the alternative looks like: people treated like animals, lack of proper safety procedures, a callous disregard for human life from the authorities, followed by institutional collusion to prevent the true facts from emerging, and a campaign to smear the victims.
Good point (poor article).

It was a combination of issues around the ground which, individually, didn't seem to amount to much but together created a massive safety risk. Standing areas with little thought for capacity, the design of the gates which led people to the pens in question, the fences, a lack of trained stewards and a general lack of concern for safety.

Sometimes we see trifling safety measures and from time-to-time it will be excessive but the general principle is worthy and often times has been well thought out. Next time a paper or politician pontificates about 'elf and safety' it's worth remembering why such measures are important.

adzii_nufc 13-09-2012 13:37
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
By a Newcastle United fan.

http://www.nufc.com/

Article found under: Hillsborough:
There but for the
grace of God, go us....

or http://pastebin.com/YKPz0tD0

martyh 13-09-2012 13:40
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35473948)
indeed ,whilst i am no friend of blindingly stupid H&S rules invented by some power crazy jobsworth i appreciate that real H&S rules are of great benefit to everyone and it is a result of incidents like hillsborough that we have these rules

Maggy 13-09-2012 16:28
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35473954)
indeed ,whilst i am no friend of blindingly stupid H&S rules invented by some power crazy jobsworth i appreciate that real H&S rules are of great benefit to everyone and it is a result of incidents like hillsborough that we have these rules
Which is why I did have some concerns at the reports that this government is thinking of relaxing H&S rulings..Lets hope they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.:erm:

Damien 13-09-2012 17:03
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35474016)
Which is why I did have some concerns at the reports that this government is thinking of relaxing H&S rulings..Lets hope they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.:erm:
ah that's just populist nonsense from them. The most they'll do is issue some minor little changes wrapped in a lot of PR talk about ,no nonsense, common sense, changes. It comes down to how people interpret the rules which they have little control over.

It's like all that stuff about getting rid of the Human Rights Act and replacing it with a British Rights Act. All that can be is the same darn rights but reworded to make them sound more popular. Probably changing the right to a family life to explicitly state 'unless you've committed a crime' which is already covered in the European Human Rights act but hasn't been phrased for idiots.

Peter_ 13-09-2012 17:06
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35474016)
Which is why I did have some concerns at the reports that this government is thinking of relaxing H&S rulings..Lets hope they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.:erm:
They are defined by European law and enabled by the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.

martyh 13-09-2012 17:14
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_ (Post 35474035)
They are defined by European law and enabled by the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.
Only rules enforced by the HSE ,local authorities and companies can make up any rubbish under the guise of H&S which is the problem imo .Events like Hillsborough taught us that clearly defined H&S rules and procedures are invaluable but allowing local authorities and companies to muddy the waters with their own rules just confuses the issue

Peter_ 13-09-2012 17:27
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35474038)
Only rules enforced by the HSE ,local authorities and companies can make up any rubbish under the guise of H&S which is the problem imo .Events like Hillsborough taught us that clearly defined H&S rules and procedures are invaluable but allowing local authorities and companies to muddy the waters with their own rules just confuses the issue
They are not rules, they are enabling Acts, Regulations companies and local authorities cannot make up their own rules as that is illegal and would be a criminal act punishable by a hefty fine and possibly jail.

You cannot make up your own health and safety rules regardless of how big a company you may be that is why the law is there to prevent such things from happening.

martyh 13-09-2012 17:47
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_ (Post 35474042)
They are not rules, they are enabling Acts, Regulations companies and local authorities cannot make up their own rules as that is illegal and would be a criminal act punishable by a hefty fine and possibly jail.

You cannot make up your own health and safety rules regardless of how big a company you may be that is why the law is there to prevent such things from happening.
I have worked on many ,many building sites and each and every one has there own H&S rules unique to the main contractor who follows HSE regulations such as hard hats, boots, high viz,etc and then they supplement these with there own ,which are then further supplemented by sub contractor rules .
Example ,nowhere in HSE rules does it say that ladders cannot be used and yet one company i worked with does not allow ladders on site as part of their own h&s rules which any company is perfectly at liberty to do.The good thing though is that the HSE can be contacted if there is a worry that some jumped up jerk compromises H&S by enforcing ill thought out rules such as the no ladder rule and they can overrule ,i personally have been involved in such a case

Peter_ 13-09-2012 17:50
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35474049)
I have worked on many ,many building sites and each and every one has there own H&S rules unique to the main contractor who follows HSE regulations such as hard hats, boots, high viz,etc and then they supplement these with there own ,which are then further supplemented by sub contractor rules .
Example ,nowhere in HSE rules does it say that ladders cannot be used and yet one company i worked with does not allow ladders on site as part of their own h&s rules which any company is perfectly at liberty to do.The good thing though is that the HSE can be contacted if there is a worry that some jumped up jerk compromises H&S by enforcing ill thought out rules such as the no ladder rule and they can overrule ,i personally have been involved in such a case
I am talking about the law not petty little rules that companies try to use which in many cases are illegal for which they can be prosecuted.

martyh 13-09-2012 18:05
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_ (Post 35474051)
I am talking about the law not petty little rules that companies try to use which in many cases are illegal for which they can be prosecuted.
well we where talking about petty little rules that are made by officious idiots .Hillsborough and other disasters are responsible for many of the modern rules that are law now ,Maggie was worried that Camerons latest announcement that he wants to relax H&S rules would erode the advances in H&S we have made since events such as Hillsborough ,but hopefully only the loony idiots who ban conkers , snow balls and tree climbing will get the boot

Peter_ 13-09-2012 18:16
Re: Hillsborough Report
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35474056)
well we where talking about petty little rules that are made by officious idiots .Hillsborough and other disasters are responsible for many of the modern rules that are law now ,Maggie was worried that Camerons latest announcement that he wants to relax H&S rules would erode the advances in H&S we have made since events such as Hillsborough ,but hopefully only the loony idiots who ban conkers , snow balls and tree climbing will get the boot
We now have Brussels and European laws to prevent any such relaxation of health and safety law.


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