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-   -   Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33679638)

alferret 24-12-2013 08:46
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Know the name & what he done, but didn't know he was a convicted homosexual :dunce:
Its a shame that it has taken so long, but at least its happened. Im sure there are many others who had done just as much & they also are deserving of pardons.

Maggy 24-12-2013 09:03
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Sadly it's just too late. We could have had access to a truly great mind for a lot longer. :(

martyh 24-12-2013 09:09
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35657410)
Hopefully there will be more pardons coming for others convicted of the same 'crime'.
Exactly my thoughts ,what about joe bloggs who did nothing apart from be a normal guy ,are they any less deserving because they weren't famous ?

Osem 24-12-2013 09:13
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Long overdue. Such a waste of genius!

:clap:

Hugh 24-12-2013 10:16
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35657415)
Exactly my thoughts ,what about joe bloggs who did nothing apart from be a normal guy ,are they any less deserving because they weren't famous ?
Did they contribute this much to the war effort?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18419691

martyh 24-12-2013 10:32
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35657428)
Did they contribute this much to the war effort?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18419691
does it matter ? or is the correction of an injustice only available to those who where famous or contributed x amount to society


Quote:
Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell said: "I pay tribute to the government for ensuring Alan Turing has a royal pardon at last but I do think it's very wrong that other men convicted of exactly the same offence are not even being given an apology, let alone a royal pardon.
"We're talking about at least 50,000 other men who were convicted of the same offence, of so-called gross indecency, which is simply a sexual act between men with consent."

Hugh 24-12-2013 10:48
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35657430)
does it matter ? or is the correction of an injustice only available to those who where famous or contributed x amount to society
No, it should be equal treatment for all.

However, we have always treated those, in time of war and other times, differently when they made major contributions - Winston Churchill, Sir Barnes Wallis, and many, many others.

martyh 24-12-2013 11:00
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35657434)
No, it should be equal treatment for all.

However, we have always treated those, in time of war and other times, differently when they made major contributions - Winston Churchill, Sir Barnes Wallis, and many, many others.
Well lets hope this is taken as a precedent and all those convicted and castrated for being openly gay are pardoned,some may even still be alive .

Russ 24-12-2013 11:07
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35657434)
No, it should be equal treatment for all.
I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for equality - but do you really think there will ever be 'equal treatment for all', seeing as we are all different?

Lefty and PC types may be happy to deny this but we do all judge on appearances - it's a human trait seeing as we're hunters and sight is our primary sense. The difference of course is when someone is judged negatively on their appearance. But even then that's not such a bad thing necessarily. If I see a gang of chavs on a street corner and I need to walk past them I'm going to be quietly on my guard - that's self preservation.

If you break down and call out the AA, when you see the van pull up you expect the driver to be male. If it turns out to be female and you assume she won't be able to fix your car as a result then yes that's where problems start.

My point is whereas we should aim for true equality, I think human nature dictates that will never happen.

Maggy 24-12-2013 11:45
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Well I wonder just how many of those 50,000 Tatchell is muttering about would have made any real contributions to society?Indeed how many would have been criminals and useless to society?

Having got that off my chest I'm perfectly happy for every maligned gay to be pardoned..BUT if it must start somewhere why not with Turing?Why must we seek to downplay his contributions?

Russ 24-12-2013 11:53
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Was this guy's "crime" that he admitted to being gay or that he did something associated with being gay?

martyh 24-12-2013 12:04
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35657448)
Well I wonder just how many of those 50,000 Tatchell is muttering about would have made any real contributions to society?Indeed how many would have been criminals and useless to society?

Having got that off my chest I'm perfectly happy for every maligned gay to be pardoned..BUT if it must start somewhere why not with Turing?Why must we seek to downplay his contributions?
no bodies downplaying his contributions Maggie ,it is fitting that his contributions are recognised but it is not fitting imo that everyone else who broke the law in the same way remain criminals whilst Turing is singled out and decriminalised

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35657451)
Was this guy's "crime" that he admitted to being gay or that he did something associated with being gay?
He simply admitted to a homosexual relationship during an investigation for a burglary according to wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Tu..._for_indecency

Russ 24-12-2013 12:07
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
I'm on my tablet and for some reason links aren't working for me today - so if I've got this right he wasn't prosecuted for admitting to being gay, just that he was in a gay relationship (which presumably was illegal at that time)?

martyh 24-12-2013 12:10
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35657456)
I'm on my tablet and for some reason links aren't working for me today - so if I've got this right he wasn't prosecuted for admitting to being gay, just that he was in a gay relationship (which presumably was illegal at that time)?
here's the relevant section from wiki

Quote:
on January 1952, Turing started a relationship with Arnold Murray, a 19-year-old unemployed man. Turing met Murray just before Christmas outside the Regal Cinema when walking down Manchester's Oxford Road and had invited him to lunch. On 23 January Turing's house was burgled. Murray told Turing that the burglar was an acquaintance of his, and Turing reported the crime to the police. During the investigation he acknowledged a sexual relationship with Murray. Homosexual acts were criminal offences in the United Kingdom at that time,[92] and both men were charged with gross indecency under Section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885.[93]

Hugh 24-12-2013 12:29
Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35657440)
I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for equality - but do you really think there will ever be 'equal treatment for all', seeing as we are all different?

Lefty and PC types may be happy to deny this but we do all judge on appearances - it's a human trait seeing as we're hunters and sight is our primary sense. The difference of course is when someone is judged negatively on their appearance. But even then that's not such a bad thing necessarily. If I see a gang of chavs on a street corner and I need to walk past them I'm going to be quietly on my guard - that's self preservation.

If you break down and call out the AA, when you see the van pull up you expect the driver to be male. If it turns out to be female and you assume she won't be able to fix your car as a result then yes that's where problems start.

My point is whereas we should aim for true equality, I think human nature dictates that will never happen.
We will never all be the same as we are all (mostly) different, with different abilities and views - there should, however, be equality of opportunity; we should all have the opportunity to succeed, without being held back by perceptions because of race, colour, sexuality, sexual orientation, etc. etc.


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