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-   -   How not to treat a soldier (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33664881)

PeteLockwood 10-05-2010 20:49
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
flyboy you are [ADMIN EDIT], how can anybody not appreciate the work our soldiers are doing ?

should of shot the entire lot of them that were digging in...

danielf 10-05-2010 20:51
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteL (Post 35018565)
flyboy you are [ADMIN EDIT], how can anybody not appreciate the work our soldiers are doing ?

should of shot the entire lot of them that were digging in...
He's not said that at all. Just that they shouldn't be beating up prisoners (which I think is a sensible position).

Sirius 10-05-2010 21:01
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35018541)
So are people suggesting that soldiers should be free to beat up prisoners, or just that their punishment is too harsh?
The punishment was way out of order and over the top. But hey that's the norm now and will only get worse

PeteLockwood 10-05-2010 21:04
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
i did not suggest they beat up prisoners did i ?, terrorists digging in ieds warrants a bullet if you ask me

martyh 10-05-2010 21:08
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35018541)
So are people suggesting that soldiers should be free to beat up prisoners, or just that their punishment is too harsh?
no they shouldn't in an ideal world ,but unfortunately we don't live in one ,we have soldiers who are human and vunerable to the emotions that brings .Seargent leader was most likely reacting to having lost friends and comrades to the very same bombers (an assumption but quite possible)he had arrested so yes i do think a bit of leaway should be in order ,punish yes ,destroy no ,way to harsh imo

Sirius 10-05-2010 21:10
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
For those of you that are supporters of the punishment given to these two soldiers.

This is what they deal with every day. Not like you arm chair hand wringers

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...Lewis_Harrison

PeteLockwood 10-05-2010 21:11
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35018594)
no they shouldn't in an ideal world ,but unfortunately we don't live in one ,we have soldiers who are human and vunerable to the emotions that brings .Seargent leader was most likely reacting to having lost friends and comrades to the very same bombers (an assumption but quite possible)he had arrested so yes i do think a bit of leaway should be in order ,punish yes ,destroy no ,way to harsh imo
spot on i just couldn't word it so i didn't try lol

martyh 10-05-2010 21:19
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35018597)
For those of you that are supporters of this punishment to these 2 soldiers, This is what they deal with every day, Not like you arm chair hand wringers

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...Lewis_Harrison

to all the Flyboy's out there i suggest you read this and then try to tell me or anyone else why we should give the taliban terrorists ANY kind of justice at all .

Sirius 10-05-2010 21:23
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35018608)
to all the Flyboy's out there i suggest you read this and then try to tell me or anyone else why we should give the taliban terrorists ANY kind of justice at all .
We do seem to have a few

Ed2020 10-05-2010 22:30
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35018608)
to all the Flyboy's out there i suggest you read this and then try to tell me or anyone else why we should give the taliban terrorists ANY kind of justice at all .
Isn't it one of the things that differentiates us from them?

martyh 10-05-2010 22:35
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed2020 (Post 35018711)
Isn't it one of the things that differentiates us from them?
yes it is you are quite correct ...but when the people you are trying to introduce to western morals ,laws and justice are not interested and just want to blow you up how far do you go ?

Kymmy 11-05-2010 09:20
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
What gets me is that if 4 men were spotted outside the camp then the responding soldiers should have been armed and on guard duty (you don't go outside of the camp except if you're armed and on official business)

Since when has a wellington boot been part of the kit of an on duty camp guard?

I think that there's a lot more of this story than has been published (like for example why he was given to the afghan police for what everyone is reporting as burying an IED when intelligence would have wanted him first)

It stinks from both sides and at this point reading all the reports I'm more than likely to suggest that the soldier went too far with an already secured prisoner and now he's looking for someone else to blame for he himself losing his career!!!

But that's just my own viewpoint...

Sirius 11-05-2010 17:27
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35018891)
What gets me is that if 4 men were spotted outside the camp then the responding soldiers should have been armed and on guard duty (you don't go outside of the camp except if you're armed and on official business)

Since when has a wellington boot been part of the kit of an on duty camp guard?

I think that there's a lot more of this story than has been published (like for example why he was given to the afghan police for what everyone is reporting as burying an IED when intelligence would have wanted him first)

It stinks from both sides and at this point reading all the reports I'm more than likely to suggest that the soldier went too far with an already secured prisoner and now he's looking for someone else to blame for he himself losing his career!!!

But that's just my own viewpoint...
This will explain

Quote:
The fateful incident began at 2pm on March 19 last year near Wishtan base, Sangin, when four men were spotted planting an IED.

A patrol gave chase and two suspects, one of them Ekhlas, were arrested. He put up a fierce struggle, during which he received facial injuries. The other man was shot dead while escaping.

Five hours later, Ekhlas, in plastic handcuffs, was being held a mile away at Forward Operating Base Jackson, where Sgt Leader and Capt Wheelhouse were based, and the prisoner was put in the custody of their troop, to be held in a tent.

There, Royal Military Police Lance-Corporal Ellen Chun ensured he had food and took photos of his injuries. At some point, the cuffs were removed to allow Ekhlas to pray.

Sgt Leader said he and Capt Wheelhouse went to the tent to check on the guard duty, but upon opening the tent could see no guards, yet found the prisoner, uncuffed and standing up.


Sgt Leader said: ‘I immediately assumed he was making a run for it and I grabbed the nearest weapon available – the boot – and hit him with it and using minimum force put him down on the ground.’

L/Cpl Chun returned to the tent, having found Ekhlas a sleeping bag, and told the court she found the two men assaulting the prisoner, who was streaming with blood.
It turned out that the two Marines guarding Ekhlas had been in the tent, but were not immediately visible when Sgt Leader opened the flap, which led him to assume something was wrong and tackle the prisoner.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0ndg5ukri

Kymmy 11-05-2010 17:50
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
So he didn't even try to follow procedure? He waded right in and tackled the suspect after he assumed the wrong thing?

There are procedures for handling these situations with clear and defined guidelines as to when reasonable force should be used.. Hitting him with a boot to put him to the ground without first issuing a warning is not the way anyone is trained.. Every soldier should be trained as every soldier (even techies) are asked to perform guard duty, this involved training for approaching and apprehending suspects and prisoners.. It's not as though they couldn;t see he was unarmed as they already stated he was uncuffed..

I'm not saying that he didn't think that he was doing the right thing and in that respect I'd love to know what actions the Captain took?? Typical Sgt though jumped in assuming the worse and only then thinks of the implications..

I'd be suprised if there still wasn't more to this story and would be interested in seeing the official report

Sirius 11-05-2010 17:59
Re: How not to treat a soldier
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35019254)
So he didn't even try to follow procedure? He waded right in and tackled the suspect after he assumed the wrong thing?

There are procedures for handling these situations with clear and defined guidelines as to when reasonable force should be used.. Hitting him with a boot to put him to the ground without first issuing a warning is not the way anyone is trained.. Every soldier should be trained as every soldier (even techies) are asked to perform guard duty, this involved training for approaching and apprehending suspects and prisoners.. It's not as though they couldn;t see he was unarmed as they already stated he was cuffed..

I'm not saying that he didn't think that he was doing the right thing and in that respect I'd love to know what actions the Captain took?? Typical Sgt though jumped in assuming the worse and only then thinks of the implications..

I'd be surprised if there still wasn't more to this story and would be interested in seeing the official report
However it still should not have got to the point that they decided to ruin the lives of these two soldiers. There is far worse goes on every Friday and Saturday night in our towns and cities and you don't see this level of punishment going on for that. Bloody hell i did far worse than this on a few nights in Belfast and Londonderry during the riots.


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