Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

I would think anybody who believed themselves qualified to comment on God's thoughts to be somewhat deluded, and possibly arrogant, maybe even a little unhinged.

The only proper position of a Christian teacher is humility and absolute reliance on God, and not reliant on a sense of personal qualifications. However that does not preclude the possibility of God asking such a person to deliver a prophetic message. In such cases the person speaking would indeed be in a position of commenting on God's thoughts on specific issues. This is why, in Christian terminology, we're told to 'discern the spirits' - know the man, know his ministry. I don't know the Bishop of Carlisle (assuming that's who it was, I've not seen a link yet), hence my reluctance to weigh in on either side on this specific issue.

It would be dishonest of me not to point out, however, that the principle of God using major calamities - sometimes military, sometimes natural disasters - as a means of exercising judgment at a national or cultural level, with the intention of causing people to reassess their lives and turn to him, is well established in the Bible. The destruction of the Temple and the exile of the Israelites to Babylon in the 6th century BC is directly attributed by both historical and prophetic authors in the Old Testament to Israel's disobedience and God's judgment as a direct consequence.

I don't expect any non-believer to simply roll over as a result of this and say 'well that's ok then' - simply to accept that such a view is far from alien to Biblical Christianity and to be just a little less surprised to hear someone mention it. Again, I stress, I'm not using this general point to validate the specifics of what the Bishop has apparently said this weekend.

To your final point - any religion which sets out to promote a certain way of life in its adherents, and to persuade other people to join up and adopt that same way of life, is inevitably going to end up saying that it believes one lifestyle is better than another. It has always been so and it always will be so. All that has changed is the current fashion for relativism and the privatisation of 'truth'. It's not surprising that a generation that has been taught that truth is a personal thing rather than an absolute would be offended when it clashes with a body of thought that holds truth to be an absolute concept.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

linky in post #5: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34341134-post5.html

No mention of a prophetic message. The word arrogance is used though.

Not surprising perhaps, but irritating and offensive (to me) nonetheless.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Right....so what exactly is it that people are objecting to here, the fact the man gave his opinion, that he believes these natural disasters are of God or what he believes is the reason for them?

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

In my case, what he believes is the reason for them.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Well, one of the things I object to is that, to my mind, the man gave his opinion, but wrapped it up as divine truth. There is no mention of this being his opinion, rather we have a high ranking religious person apparently claiming this as truth. The same absolute truth which he apparently thinks gives him the right to pass judgment on other people's life. Plus, with him being high ranking, is it surprising when people think he is speaking not just for himself, but for a wider community from his church? I think the man is either extremely arrogant, extremely stupid, or both.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Thank you :)

Let's keep this going if we can....

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

depends what religion you follow.............

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Not really. When I called it "Christianity-bashing" the usual suspects are quick to point out that it's "religion-bashing" apparently.

Anyway, do you object to what he's said? If so my question in post 48 stands.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Personally, I have to say that I object to the fact that he's alluding to it being a 'punishment' for, amongst other things, the increased permissiveness within society. To be honest, I'm not bothered if that's his opinion because he's fully entitled to it, but I would prefer not to be told that it's an indictment of Western society by a 'higher being' that I choose not to believe in :shrug:

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

There must be a lot of permissiveness going on in South Asia then, over 2 million people displaced by flooding there! :erm:

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

I can respect your stance there however if that's the case for most people, it makes you wonder why people are getting upset over something, as Chris mentions earlier, that they don't believe in.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Speaking as a godless heathen living in sin and currently covetous of a new iPod and a Wii, my house is nice and dry and my garden is nice and green. Must be some other immoral, greedy people who aroused the Almighty's wrath. I'm off to book a table at Tiger Tiger.

[Of course, people could have been on the receiving end of floodwater because it bloody rained a lot, but that would be the obvious, rational, scientific explanation, wouldn't it, and we can't be doing with that]

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

PMSL at the Google banner ad I just saw at the top of this page

http://www.cthree.org/Group/Group.aspx?id=552

:D

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Just don't park too close to the entrance, or leave anything on the back seat covered with a blanket.

Out of curiousity were there many churches flooded over the last few days?

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

I suppose that, in my case, 'upset' is probably the wrong term in that I've got no problem with his opinion as it stands - my problem is that he's used a sweeping generalisation :shrug: